Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release)
- Thread starter rodneyfaile
- Start date
It wasn't happenstance, he had something scanning for it continuously, and once it left Jakku it became traceable. (ID signature or whatever)
Brent M
Sr Member
Because it's the internet and people have to bitch about something...and it's 1000x worse when it comes to Star Wars. :rolleyes
Kinda like how Leia got held captive by the Empire, ran by a guy who just happened to be her Dad unbeknownst to her (OR VADER FOR THAT MATTER).... And how later the person who rescued Leia just happened to be her Brother.... out of all the vastness in the universe. The possibilities of who could have rescued her.
Odd how these coincidences happen in the largest of multiple galaxies.... and in such a finite amount of time. Convenient for a movie... right?
matty matt
Sr Member
TFA gets blasted for stuff the OT did all the time. Criticism is fine, but it's a little one sided.
astroboy
Master Member
Things I don't like about JJ Abrams as a filmmaker:
He doesn't story board. (He has said this)
He cares more about the immediate image, rather than designed continuity (That awesome shot of the ties approaching in front of the sun makes no sense at all)
'Memberberries
He believes that obstacles are something for the screenwriter to overcome, rather than the characters (just look at fury road to see it done right)
There was a ton of arrogance towards Lucas (when, in the end, he tries as hard as possible to emulate Lucas, while missing the point.) And his baby.
Overall clumsiness in the editing. Both trek and wars felt like he was throwing scenes at the wall to see what sticks (and letting someone else figure that out)
He has this thing about massive set pieces that don't actually make sense (everything about Trek) in the world of the film.
He seems to want you to turn your brain off because they are just popcorn movies. That's incredibly dismissive when you've inherited the property of Roddenberry and Lucas.
Lucas was inspired by a ton of sources. Abrams seems to have been only inspired by Lucas.
I could go on but I'm on my phone. But mostly, it doesn't seem like he puts much thought I to these incredibly important pieces of art. At one point I had read that his dirty secret is that he doesn't know what to do when he's in charge. He lets a ton of other people make the decisions for him. And that is noticeable.
At least Lucas was an auteur. Truthfully, he needed his ex-wife to keep him in check, but at least the vision was his.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
He doesn't story board. (He has said this)
He cares more about the immediate image, rather than designed continuity (That awesome shot of the ties approaching in front of the sun makes no sense at all)
'Memberberries
He believes that obstacles are something for the screenwriter to overcome, rather than the characters (just look at fury road to see it done right)
There was a ton of arrogance towards Lucas (when, in the end, he tries as hard as possible to emulate Lucas, while missing the point.) And his baby.
Overall clumsiness in the editing. Both trek and wars felt like he was throwing scenes at the wall to see what sticks (and letting someone else figure that out)
He has this thing about massive set pieces that don't actually make sense (everything about Trek) in the world of the film.
He seems to want you to turn your brain off because they are just popcorn movies. That's incredibly dismissive when you've inherited the property of Roddenberry and Lucas.
Lucas was inspired by a ton of sources. Abrams seems to have been only inspired by Lucas.
I could go on but I'm on my phone. But mostly, it doesn't seem like he puts much thought I to these incredibly important pieces of art. At one point I had read that his dirty secret is that he doesn't know what to do when he's in charge. He lets a ton of other people make the decisions for him. And that is noticeable.
At least Lucas was an auteur. Truthfully, he needed his ex-wife to keep him in check, but at least the vision was his.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Yeah but you're looking at JJ's The Force Awakens as if it was made the same way George Lucas's Star Wars was made.
Star Wars was basically an indie film where Lucas could do whatever he wanted, within his means and budget.
JJ had a set schedule (a CRAZY short period of time for a project this big), a check list of things needed to be incorporated. Merchandise tie-ins. An INSANE amount of people to answer to. Disney pressure to not screw up their investments, and worse of all... FAN BOYS/girls.
Look at Rogue One tinkering... that guy REALLY got it from Disney... in many ways, JJ was more than the right guy for TFA because, simply, JJ can do what few people can...
NOT crack under pressure.
I worked on a 50 Million dollar flick that friends/coworkers still have PTSD over... it had two directors that are now a lot more bald then when the project started 4 years earlier. Feature projects are a nightmare when there are little-to-no expectations... But when the entire world is watching? I can't even imagine.
The hardest part of directing is taking hundreds of creative people and steering them all in one direction to have one final product that makes money, is well received, and hopefully still displays the creative talent that went into it.
Very few can do this. I think he did EXTREMELY well.
Of course I enjoyed the hell out of TFA... so a little biased.
Star Wars was basically an indie film where Lucas could do whatever he wanted, within his means and budget.
JJ had a set schedule (a CRAZY short period of time for a project this big), a check list of things needed to be incorporated. Merchandise tie-ins. An INSANE amount of people to answer to. Disney pressure to not screw up their investments, and worse of all... FAN BOYS/girls.
Look at Rogue One tinkering... that guy REALLY got it from Disney... in many ways, JJ was more than the right guy for TFA because, simply, JJ can do what few people can...
NOT crack under pressure.
I worked on a 50 Million dollar flick that friends/coworkers still have PTSD over... it had two directors that are now a lot more bald then when the project started 4 years earlier. Feature projects are a nightmare when there are little-to-no expectations... But when the entire world is watching? I can't even imagine.
The hardest part of directing is taking hundreds of creative people and steering them all in one direction to have one final product that makes money, is well received, and hopefully still displays the creative talent that went into it.
Very few can do this. I think he did EXTREMELY well.
Of course I enjoyed the hell out of TFA... so a little biased.
Last edited:
He can't design a new TIE Fighter. I know that. 
Snikt
Sr Member
I couldnt agree more, very well said. Not only that, but youre(@astroboy) giving Lucas WAY too much credit. When he has free reign to do whatever he wants, we get the prequels. When he has people like Mcquarrie, Kasdan, Kurtz and Kirschner reigning him in and actually telling him how people work, you get the OT. And as we all know now, Lucas ripped off everything he could. Also, that was also over 38 years ago...try making something familiar, yet fresh, and have something as well received considering the internet is actually a thing.
The problem is the studios don't want to take risks like they did in the 60s and 70s, they want guaranteed hits so they stick to what's safe if not slightly boring. This cookie cutter idea of theirs carries over to the budgets as well so you rarely see an increase of budget even if it's needed. That's why we get bad cgi in blockbuster films.
I agree with Gary Kurtz and others that it was a mistake turning Leia into Luke's sister (she was originally planned to be a whole new character)
it was the start of the downhill slope for the franchise that began with Return of the Jedi, and then continued with the prequels
That's not to say I didn't enjoy them. I just think they could have been so much better if done a little differently.
Same with Force Awakens. JJ succeeded in getting people hyped on Star Wars again, but as time goes on, the Force Awakens doesn't hold up the way A new Hope or Empire did
I like Rogue One better than Force Awakens. I liked Force Awakens and Revenge of the Sith better then Return of the Jedi and I like Return of the Jedi better than Phantom Menance and Clone Wars
But that is just my opinion
cboath
Master Member
And they whine when new stuff flops routinely - regardless of the stars. Why did it fail?!?!? It worked well enough the last six times we did it?
Borjis
Sr Member
And Gary Kurtz too imo. (keep in check)
No. I liked the characters (except Kylo...), Jakku, X-Wing, Star Destroyer, X-Wing and TIE Pilot uniforms, and that was about it. I'm not going to say it was exactly like ANH, but it was WAY too close for comfort. Hopefully this time around they will feel more comfortable (if that was in fact the problem) and do an original story. The design, IMO, other than what I mentioned was not very imaginative.
astroboy
Master Member
Victor3
Sr Member
I agree with this. While I know Lucas was tired of Star Wars and just wanted to wrap it up - I also remember that he talked about letting other filmmakers play in the sandbox. Kind of like we now have with the SW Stories. The merchandising machine was also going full bore, and obviously would've supported more movies in the franchise.
If he just wanted to walk away, George COULD have left it open, with Luke intending to seek out his long-lost sister, trusting in his abilities and the defeat of evil to allow him to sense her. Leia as Luke's sister added nothing at all to the plot of the OT, except for the awkward conversation about their shared mother. Which ended up in the trash heap of discontinuity with the prequels anyway. It's a great sequel hook, but it also could have been left alone if nobody wanted to take up the helm.
In this alternate universe, even if the rest of the movie stories & releases went the same way as they did, and we got TFA in 2015; wouldn't this sequel hook make more sense?
ALERT: ALTERNATE UNIVERSE PLOT IDEA FOR TFA:
Luke has been searching for his sister - a task that seemed so easy long ago. The search consumed him, leaving him distracted from his intent to rebuild and train new jedi. We see echoes of Anakin's attachment & obsession with Luke's endless search, and he ultimately disappears.
The mysterious map that somehow leads to Luke is replaced by information about Luke's sister. Lor San Tekka was tasked by Yoda to take care of the child - to keep her secret unless called upon by the Jedi or Bail Organa, otherwise to take the knowledge to the grave. Eventually, she grew up, had a son, and left Jakku, the Empire was ended and all was well. Then, around the time the First Order comes to light, Luke's sister returns to Lor San Tekka. She tells him that something terrible has happened, she has left something important with an old friend on Jakku and that she must go.
Tekka tracks down his “daughter”’s old friends, eventually learning that she’s entrusted Unkar Plutt with her secret thing. LST respects that and keeps his distance. He also learns where she was headed, and decides that he will unveil this information if needed. The secret, of course, is her daughter “Rey.”
Years pass. Rey remembers little, if anything of her family. Unkar runs a legit scavenging business, keeps the girl fed, busy & resourceful, treating her equally to the others in the town to deflect interest. Somehow (some coincidences are OK) the Falcon ends up in the hands of a local crime lord. The First Order gains power, and rumors reach Lor San Tekka of a young man, strong in the Force and obsessed with Darth Vader, leading a group of knights against Luke’s partially trained students. Tekka presumes this must be his adoptive grandson, aware of the truth of his lineage. He reaches out to the Resistance, feeling it’s time to reveal his information.
The First Order intercepts his message, and Kylo Ren returns home. His first moments on screen are exactly the same, speaking cryptically of family with Tekka. Only later will we learn that he arrives, dressed much like his real Grandfather, only to kill the Grandfather he knew as a child. <feels>
The overall story of TFA remains the same, except that it’s a bigger reveal that Kylo is Luke’s nephew. Here (finally!) is the thread of his lost sister picked back up, and he’s Luke’s enemy?! We’d lose the patricide angle with Han Solo, but he can still be a father-figure to Rey, snuffed out like Obi-Wan.
In sequels, we’d learn that Luke’s sister was sought out by Snoke for her power, but ultimately killed on Ach-To. He settled for her son as his apprentice, using him to hunt down the fledgling New Jedi Order. Maybe Kylo killed her? The moment of her death is when Kylo truly went to the dark side, Rey gave up in her heart of her family’s return & Luke lost hope. Luke finally tracks her down, buries her & despairs. But then Rey comes to him, with his father’s saber, and he instantly knows who she is...
...
Guess I should be working, or something...
And the whole scene where Leia kissed like in ESB was made awkward....
If anything, I think that's the saving grace for me.
I will say, I still like the characters and how they interact with each other. To me that was and still is the strongest part of the Force Awakens.
And BB-8 is just awesome.
To me that's how you do cutesy and kid friendly without going overboard like with Jar-Jar
It's the overly derivative mirroring of a new hope and the wild plot leaps that I felt don't hold up. I really think it suffered from trying to fit way too much in. Hopefully the new movie will take a slower pace and let things breath a little more
Similar threads
