Building the 8' Star Destroyer (superstructures done)

Most of the strength for the model comes from the aluminum tubes, so the nose that hangs off the end has very little support. You've got to remember, the mindset when building these models was that they only had to survive the shooting schedule. Most models of the day got thrown in the dumpster after the film was over. No one ever imagined that these models would still be around 35+ years later - or being shipped all over the world to be displayed. The plastics get brittle, glues start to let go and paint colors start to shift. Some of these old models just start raining parts when you move them around. They certainly weren't made to last decades after filming.

The 4 foot X-Wing was another victim of that shipping event. Actually it was a victim of it's own design. Except for the central aluminum tube, the armature was made of acrylic and after 30 years it had gotten brittle. It came back looking like a model kit. Everything had dis-assembled itself: wings, engines, fuselage, lasers, cockpit… It looked like someone had clipped the parts off the sprues and tossed them back in the box.

Lucasfilm uses a professional shipping company that is used to dealing with fine art; but with fragile things and thousands of miles, sometimes the worst happens.
 
MonsieurTox [URL said:
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h203/monsieurtox/Divers/isdframe_zpsa91eccd9.jpg[/URL]

I agree with you, the hangar bay doesnt give that much room, the outer diameter of the tubing is 3" and that's a tight fit
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That may actually be a 2" ID aluminum tube. So the outside would be around 2 1/2" . A 2" mount rod was pretty common for the model mover mounts. We liked using 2" because it also matched the modular tubing rigging system that the grips used on stage.
 
I always wondered about this. Could it be that the '2" mount rod' was actually 1.9 OD? That is a very common IPS pipe size for things like railing. From what I understand, it was used for things like scaffolding and even lighting on stage. Many different fittings are available. This seems to match your description of a "modular tubing rigging system."

(A DP I know says they mostly use a smaller IPS pipe size but they sometimes use the bigger 1 1/2" IPS pipe that is 1.9 OD.)

A 2.25" OD aluminum tube with a 1/8-inch wall thickness would be a loose slip fit over 1.9 OD pipe. But, it would *not* fit over 2-inch OD metal tube as that would be way too tight. You need a good 0.015" clearance all around the tube to get a telescoping fit -- 0.03" is even better. Using a 2.0 OD mount requires a thinner wall armature tube.
 
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star-art said:
I suspect it failed at the point where the tube ends. A 3-inch diameter tube is HUGE. I think that could be way overkill -- even for a model this size. I would probably use 1 1/2" IPS pipe. It's thicker and stronger than metal tube. A Schedule 40 pipe should work very well. The actual outside diameter is just 1.9 inches. You might be able to extend it almost all the way to the nose. Plus, you can use off-the-shelf fittings for the model mounts. PM for more info. I can point you to the ones I use in the Galactica.
Click to expand...


Thanks Charles, I'll contact you when I get back from vacation ! You have a solid experience in the making of big models, any tip will be great !
 
Duncanator said:
That may actually be a 2" ID aluminum tube. So the outside would be around 2 1/2" . A 2" mount rod was pretty common for the model mover mounts. We liked using 2" because it also matched the modular tubing rigging system that the grips used on stage.
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You're right John ! Thank you ! :)

I used this pic to find the diameter



But the perspective and shadow confused me haha I've checked again and yes the OD is 2-1/2" !

- - - Updated - - -

On a side note Paul Huston told me he had the armature welded by a local welder but he gave me a link of what I should use instead of get it welded :

Speed-Rail, ADA Railing, Handrails, Panels & Pipe Fittings

I think that's like your stuff Charles ?
 
Those are the fittings for 1 1/2" IPS pipe. They are used to make railing, staging, scaffolding, etc. They are also used a lot in stage lighting, but I am told a smaller size is more common.

The PIPE that fits into these fittings is available from many sources. I use a special extruded aluminum that is "high strength" compared to regular pipe. This makes it a perfect choice when building armatures for large models. We can chat more when you get back. :)

MonsieurTox said:
On a side note Paul Huston told me he had the armature welded by a local welder but he gave me a link of what I should use instead of get it welded :

Speed-Rail, ADA Railing, Handrails, Panels & Pipe Fittings

I think that's like your stuff Charles ?
Click to expand...
 
Yup! Speed rail is the stuff the grips used on stage. The modelshop used thicker walled aluminum tube stock so that we could tap screws into it, but we kept the size compatible with the speed rail. The mount rods were lathed to the appropriate size to fit the tube. The speed rail was a little sloppier fit, but worked in a pinch.
 
That makes perfect sense now. The mount rods needed to be machined in order to fit. Using IPS pipe, it would have to be shimmed in order to get a snug fit. Thanks for clarifying! :)
 
star-art said:
Those are the fittings for 1 1/2" IPS pipe. They are used to make railing, staging, scaffolding, etc. They are also used a lot in stage lighting, but I am told a smaller size is more common.

The PIPE that fits into these fittings is available from many sources. I use a special extruded aluminum that is "high strength" compared to regular pipe. This makes it a perfect choice when building armatures for large models. We can chat more when you get back. :)
Click to expand...

Very interested in the special extruded aluminium you use ! I hope they ship overseas and that wont cost an arm to get it shipped :)


Duncanator said:
Yup! Speed rail is the stuff the grips used on stage. The modelshop used thicker walled aluminum tube stock so that we could tap screws into it, but we kept the size compatible with the speed rail. The mount rods were lathed to the appropriate size to fit the tube. The speed rail was a little sloppier fit, but worked in a pinch.
Click to expand...

Im confused lol what is 2" then ? The ID of the armature tube or the OD of the mount rod (once lathed) ?
You said the armature tube was a 2" ID and 2-1/2" OD tube which would make the walls 1/4" thick, is that enough to thread it for screw ? Sounds OK to me. Im really confused about all that stuff even more because it's imperial ! :D

Thanks guys :)
 
I use roughly 1/8 inch wall pipe (~3mm) and that is extremely thick. I do believe you can get aluminum tube with a 1/4 inch wall, but that is WAY thick. I don't recall noticing in the pics it was that much?

He's saying the ID of the armature tube was 2 inches. The mount rod was also 2 inches, but it was machined down so it fit snugly inside the tube.

If you simply try to use off-the-shelf parts, there is no way to get a telescoping fit with these materials. You can use 1 1/2" IPS pipe as your model mount and the fit will be a bit loose. You will need to shim the mount to get a tighter fit.

That's not much of an issue for me because I use IPS pipe both as the armature *and* as the model mount. Special adapters are available that give a tight friction fit and also a locking coupling when using the pipe.

As to shipping, no guarantees. It costs an arm and a leg to get that stuff shipped inside the States! They have a minimum order and a flat rate shipping fee. Not cheap. . .
 
Haha! We have been throwing around a a lot of numbers!

The armature tube stock we used was 2 inches inside diameter. It had a 1/4" wall thickness that made the outside about 2.5 inches and was adequate for tapping screws into. Sometimes we would use a thinner walled tube and weld a small block onto it to add thickness where we needed to tap in a screw.
We would custom lathe mount rods to fit inside into this tubing with a "slip fit". We didn't want the fit too tight because it might bind or gall and become difficult to remove.

Speed rail; as Star-art mentioned, is used by stage crews for scaffolding, rigging etc… and it has an inside diameter of 1.5 inches and an outside diameter of about 1.9 inches.
Sometimes we would use the speed rail tubes to mount or move the models if the custom mount rod was too short or we needed extra mount points. The fit of the speed rail was a little loose, but it worked for emergencies.

I hope that clears it up.
 
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One other thing: If you are planning to weld your armature, make sure you get a weldable aluminum like 6061.
High strength varieties of aluminum like 2024 or 7075 don't weld very well.

You may already know that from your ATAT project, but I thought I'd mention it.
 
I had my first Galactica armature welded. It warped quite badly. This can be a problem with aluminum unless the person doing the welding is very experienced and knows exactly what he's doing. I've since switched to using bolt-together armature designs made with mostly off-the-shelf parts. It's a lot more cost effective -- and much easier to build.

Then again, there are times when a welded design is exactly what's needed. In that case, you might be better off using something like steel muffler pipe (what they used on the original Galactica).

One other point: Thick-walled aluminum tube can get quite heavy. Even the Sched. 40 pipe I use with a roughly 1/8 inch wall is heavy. With a large model like this, weight becomes an issue and needs to be kept under control. That's why I'd recommend something thinner than what was used on the studio model.
 
Yeah, sometimes the armature guys think about weight and other times they don't. The Federation battleship had an armature in it like a boat anchor and was heavy as sin!

But I think we are derailing this thread….
 
No you're not derailing this thread, internal is as much important as external ! Maybe not to reproduce exactly what was done regarding the armature but improvise what was done with the stuff that is available 40 years later.

Armature and internal frame are something that are most of the time overlooked by modelers (me included), being studio scale models, large scratchbuilt models etc (that's less important for smaller, lighter models).

Designing and building a good armature with is not wasted time, and getting those kind of tips from guys with huge knowledge about that is priceless. Thanks for all the info guys ! Cant wait to be back from vacations and work again on the plans ! I may just use metric stuff, it will be easier for me to grab it (a 60mm OD tube). Not sure yet if Im going to use 15 mm baltic birch plywood (like used on the original), poplar plywood (way lighter than birch) or Forex (Sintra in the US) for the ribs, Thr largest one is about 1200mm wide and 300mm tall.
 
Struschie, no worries, looks like I had too much views this month and I exceeded my photobucket bandwidth. All the pics will come back soon. This happens from time to time (and Im sorry ! I pay €100 a year for unlimited webhosting but never use it to host my pics).
 
Maybe wrong thread - but flickr.com is very cool! I used to pay the pro version but they recently extended basic contract to 1TB and unlimited traffic. Upload via apps and mail and iOS integration, BBCode for forums and HTML for Blogs very easy to access. Commenting even in a layer ontop the pictures, albums,,groups, collection, community, tagging etc etc.
Big fan. you see ;)
 
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