The end of JJTrek, finally?

I agree. TMP is one of my favorite ST movies. Sure, it's no Wrath of Khan, but I have always enjoyed it. I never thought of it as a snooze fest, more of a think piece.

That's the problem modern viewers have with TMP and a lot of the older TREK, they don't want to have to think, they want action, action and more action. I admit I like some action in my TREK but I also like for my mind to get a work out too.
 
You also have to consider the guts it took to make a film like TMP during the post-Star Wars period.

After Star Wars, every studio (and the public) wanted another one which usually resulted in cheap knock-off films with black hat wearing evil-doers, pew-pew laser gun fights, a worn-out universe, fighter spacecraft, and “popcorn-muncher simplicity” in storytelling (the knock-off films vs. Star Wars). Witness the original Battlestar Galactica, The Black Hole, Battle Beyond The Stars, etc. TMP is the opposite of all of that and, for that, it was a victim of its times (yet again, in the franchise’s history).

Had Roddenberry not stuck to his concept, we would most likely have been given a film in which Kirk and Spock fly Starfleet fighter spacecraft and engaged in dogfights against the Dark Lord of the Klingons, complete with gunfights and Spock exclaiming “yeeee-ha!!!” Maybe they would have even battling a crazed Romulan with a planet-killing device who is bent on mindeless destruction of the Federation, etc...

This probably the most fair and accurate review of the film that I have seen:

 
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One of the most glaring problems is that Abrams doesn't understand Star Trek, pure and simple. He knows the vocabulary, but not the meaning. "Cold fusion," mentioned earlier, being one example. Also:

Kirk: "Mr. Spock has resigned his commission, and advanced me to acting Captain...." (No, he relinquished command. Two very different things.)

Khan: "I will target your life support systems, located behind the aft nacelle..." (No. Just no.)

I would also point out that, at the end of ST 2009, there's a massive black hole somewhere near Earth, except that in STID, we see that it takes less than 5 minutes to get from the border of Klingon space to Earth, so I guess the black hole could be anywhere.

Finally, if time travel exists in-universe, (and is simple enough to be accomplished with a stock Klingon scout ship) then there's no reason that either Romulus or Vulcan should stay destroyed. (For the record, I think they made time travel too easy, going as far back as TOS, but it's too late to complain about that now.)
 
One of the most glaring problems is that Abrams doesn't understand Star Trek, pure and simple. He knows the vocabulary, but not the meaning. "Cold fusion," mentioned earlier, being one example. Also:

Kirk: "Mr. Spock has resigned his commission, and advanced me to acting Captain...." (No, he relinquished command. Two very different things.)

Khan: "I will target your life support systems, located behind the aft nacelle..." (No. Just no.)

I would also point out that, at the end of ST 2009, there's a massive black hole somewhere near Earth, except that in STID, we see that it takes less than 5 minutes to get from the border of Klingon space to Earth, so I guess the black hole could be anywhere.

Finally, if time travel exists in-universe, (and is simple enough to be accomplished with a stock Klingon scout ship) then there's no reason that either Romulus or Vulcan should stay destroyed. (For the record, I think they made time travel too easy, going as far back as TOS, but it's too late to complain about that now.)

JJ struggles with the concept of space. I understand that in the only true time it takes warp factor whatever to get you anywhere is generally dictated by story, but between the suitcase transporter, the quick jaunts to Vulcan and Q'onos, and the fact Han Solo could see Hosian Prime get blown up real time from another solar system, boils my blood.

Speaking of the suitcase transporter, if you add in the fact the Khan's blood brought Kirk back to life, at the end of STID Starfleet has the tech to make everyone immortal and go anywhere without a starship.
 
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Pft... a film that doesn't profit is NOT a sucess! Get a grip man.

The reallity is JJ Trek is canon and is here to stay. Get over it, or just watch 60's re-runs of "tribbles"....

Technically, it's its own canon. It's an alternate universe so anything they do/did has no impact on any other show or series.

If you remove the star trek tags and make that movie 100% as it was with a different ship design/uniforms/names and call it Star Force. How many people make the trek connection? Probably not too many.

So, why use Star Trek? For the built in name recognition, and more importantly, the built in fanbase. So, why go to that trouble and make something not very 'trek'? If you want a new fanbase (as was part of the claim), that's fine. But your objective is achieved by throwing Star Trek in the title. Star Trek 2741 or something. Gives you the whole of the universe to do what you want. No strings really. You don't get compared directly to what came before, etc.

It seems as if the logic was, lets redo the original because we already have stories and stuff in place and we can just redo that. Lazy. Not creative.
 
Witness the original Battlestar Galactica, The Black Hole, Battle Beyond The Stars, etc. TMP is the opposite of all of that and, for that, it was a victim of its times (yet again, in the franchise’s history.

I could not disagree more. Keep in mind this is only MY opinion.
With that, you're wrong. :lol

Battlestar Galactica was about as close to Star Wars at the time and was fantastic. I would know as I was eleven at the time and you would have been hard pressed to find a bigger Star Wars fan than me, and I LOVED Batllestar Galactica.
The Black Hole. Wrong again. You may want to go back and watch it. It was VERY similar to TMP. Haunting soundtrack minimal action, slow moving and left you thinking.

Battle Beyond the Stars...yeah, I'll give you that one. :lol
 
Just that from a Hollywood perspective if a movie makes back at least its budget, it's not a failure. If it makes back at least twice its budget, it's considered a success. By that metric, one film in thirteen failed, and for good reason, and six of those thirteen succeeded -- notably not including the three new ones, the latter two of which only marginally made back their budgets.

I completely agree.
 
My inner child had been wounded by the expressed difference of opinion.

I’m taking my ball and going home.

;)

I could not disagree more. Keep in mind this is only MY opinion.
With that, you're wrong. :lol

Battlestar Galactica was about as close to Star Wars at the time and was fantastic. I would know as I was eleven at the time and you would have been hard pressed to find a bigger Star Wars fan than me, and I LOVED Batllestar Galactica.
The Black Hole. Wrong again. You may want to go back and watch it. It was VERY similar to TMP. Haunting soundtrack minimal action, slow moving and left you thinking.

Battle Beyond the Stars...yeah, I'll give you that one. :lol
 
Just to go off-topic a second... BSG was hampered by network interference. Glen wanted it to be a miniseries, ABC wanted ongoing episodic. Glen worked to keep as much of the story arc in as he could, despite being shoehorned into status-quo pressure for presumed syndication once the series hit 75 episodes. When I watch it now, I watch the "arc" episodes and skip most of the filler episodes. One of these days I'll edit the whole thing into just the relevant bits and see what I've got...

The Black Hole I adore, but you're both wrong -- it's not sci-fi at all. It's gothic horror in space. The Island of Doctor Moreau mixed with Faust, and a hint of Dracula for flavor.
 
Just putting it out there, but I think a modern version of The Black Hole would be amazing, especially if it was played like a straight horror film. But Disney won't do that-- especially now that they own thevfranchise they originally made The Black Hole to cash in on.

Event Horizon is kinda a horror remake of The Black Hole...
 
I swear, I'm sincerely not trying to derail this train.

HOWEVER...

(please correct me if I am in error) Has Disney ever produced an R rated movie under the Disney banner? I believe the answer is "yes"... The Black Hole. This is the ONLY one!
And no, we're not talking Pixar, Miramax, Touchstone, etc. Those have several (well, not Pixar) rated R movies. That's why Disney has these companies under their umbrella, so they can get a piece of the rated R pie without getting any dirt on the Disney brand. However in the very early 80's Disney wanted a sci-fi movie to ride the Star Wars wave and they were missing the boat! Their solution: The Black Hole. The movie bombed and they immediately regretted their decision to make a movie that was rated R (which was an incredibly tough decision for them). It stung so much that they had now sullied their brand by producing an R movie AND it bombed, they swore they would never do it again. Their solution was to buy subsidiary companies so that they could (indirectly) produce R movies while keeping the Disney brand "squeaky clean". However, they will forever be haunted by the fact that Disney indeed does have an R rated film under their belt. To further fuel this tale, word has been flying for years that Disney has been trying for years to change the rating of The Black Hole or change the name of the production company on the credits...both to no avail as of yet.

It just goes to show that no matter HOW powerful Disney is, they can't have EVERYTHING they want.

Thats the story that's been circulating The Black Hole for years.
 
I swear, I'm sincerely not trying to derail this train.

HOWEVER...

(please correct me if I am in error) Has Disney ever produced an R rated movie under the Disney banner? I believe the answer is "yes"... The Black Hole...

Not that I want to derail further, but The Black Hole was rated PG.
 
I swear, I'm sincerely not trying to derail this train.

HOWEVER...

(please correct me if I am in error) Has Disney ever produced an R rated movie under the Disney banner?

The Black Hole was actually the first Disney movie to receive a PG rating. For the first R-Rated film, it was Ruthless People (1986). It was the first film under the Touchtone Pictures banner (which was created by Disney for any future R-Rated movies they made, so that they didn't have the Disney name attached to an R-Rated work).

So, to answer your question: YES. Disney has released an R-Rated film, and did it under a different name (similar to how Marvel has released more mature related works under imprint company titles, for example: Kick-Ass under Icon Comics).
 
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