PantheraGem
Sr Member
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
I did not like the movie, because I don't like fun.
I did not like the movie, because I don't like fun.
Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm (after 2021)?
- Thread starter kalkamel
- Start date
- Status
Paul Andrew
Master Member
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
I didn't intend to dismiss your reasoning. I thought you and I were conversing well. The above was intended for JPH, among others, who keep posting as if liking the new movies makes you less of a fan.
Fwiw, there are a huge number of dudes who are harassing female cast and whatnot in particular. If that's not you then rest easy in your knowledge that I'm not calling you out. If your beef is anything to do with gender or race, maybe do a little introspection before setting the internet aflame with your ire?
- - - Updated - - -
I LOLed
I didn't intend to dismiss your reasoning. I thought you and I were conversing well. The above was intended for JPH, among others, who keep posting as if liking the new movies makes you less of a fan.
Fwiw, there are a huge number of dudes who are harassing female cast and whatnot in particular. If that's not you then rest easy in your knowledge that I'm not calling you out. If your beef is anything to do with gender or race, maybe do a little introspection before setting the internet aflame with your ire?
- - - Updated - - -
I LOLed
Last edited:
Moreorless37
Active Member
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
I still believe we are conversing well, maybe dismissed was the wrong word. I will say that many female cast members are getting the short end of the stick this time, but that's because their characters were front and center and they were bad in many opinions. Just like poor Jake Llyod and Hayden. I agree that the flame against them is not fair, and most of it should be towards the writers and director if anybody, but the fact that many are just saying it is all racists and sexists is exactly why people are turning away and is my main point. Like the movie, dont like it, not my problem. People like what they like, and obviously we differ on this movie, which is ok. But dismissing everybody as sexists is a problem
I still believe we are conversing well, maybe dismissed was the wrong word. I will say that many female cast members are getting the short end of the stick this time, but that's because their characters were front and center and they were bad in many opinions. Just like poor Jake Llyod and Hayden. I agree that the flame against them is not fair, and most of it should be towards the writers and director if anybody, but the fact that many are just saying it is all racists and sexists is exactly why people are turning away and is my main point. Like the movie, dont like it, not my problem. People like what they like, and obviously we differ on this movie, which is ok. But dismissing everybody as sexists is a problem
Paul Andrew
Master Member
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
I don't think we're seeing that happen without preemptive behavior in most cases, but I'm open to being disproved. That being said, if you know you're not doing the offending behavior then you know the beef isn't with you, whether you like the flick or not.
I don't think we're seeing that happen without preemptive behavior in most cases, but I'm open to being disproved. That being said, if you know you're not doing the offending behavior then you know the beef isn't with you, whether you like the flick or not.
Moreorless37
Active Member
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
Paul Andrew this, which is the post that prompted my first post
Paul Andrew this, which is the post that prompted my first post
Last edited by a moderator:
Paul Andrew
Master Member
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
Again, unless you're concerned that you have participated in that behavior, they're not talking about you.
Again, unless you're concerned that you have participated in that behavior, they're not talking about you.
firesprite
Master Member
Moreorless37
Active Member
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
You may say it is not my issue or they are not talking about me, but when any fair critque is made and brushed off as sexist without going through a lengthy conversation, that is an issue. And saying the fans attacking Ms Tran or KK are sexist, I point to many men from the PT. It is just that now women are the ones being pointed at for bad characters because they are front and center. For my case I point to Asoka being a loved character by the majority of fans, as well as Hera and Sabine being quite liked. Jumping to sexism is unwarrented, because star wars fans have a long history of being a**holes to actors. I dont like it, but that is the way things are
You may say it is not my issue or they are not talking about me, but when any fair critque is made and brushed off as sexist without going through a lengthy conversation, that is an issue. And saying the fans attacking Ms Tran or KK are sexist, I point to many men from the PT. It is just that now women are the ones being pointed at for bad characters because they are front and center. For my case I point to Asoka being a loved character by the majority of fans, as well as Hera and Sabine being quite liked. Jumping to sexism is unwarrented, because star wars fans have a long history of being a**holes to actors. I dont like it, but that is the way things are
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
lol...no.
That's a really bad line of reasoning, because Lucas' SWIQ plummeted somewhere between 1980 and 1983.
No. She held it in contempt, claiming it was all white men. And then rubbed her hands together with a maniacal laugh when she took the reins of the franchise, hell-bent to tear it down and re-make it in accordance with her SJW agenda.
Hey, you should go rent Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen! I hear it's a better movie than Citizen Kane!!!
Rey is a terrible role model for young girls. She never has to earn anything. Everything just comes to her spontaneously. She is flawless, vice-free, and the most virtuous entity in the galaxy.
Let's leave the Mary Sue treatment to cartoon characters like Kim Possible. Not a live-action heroine in a serious production like Star Wars.
Go ahead, go ahead...like Disney Wars to your heart's content. But know that they are not Star Wars films, they are SWINO films. If ya don't know that, then your SWIQ is in question.
Liking the movies does not make you less of a fan. I would never question someone's passion for Star Wars. I only ever question their SWIQ--their understanding of what things do and do not belong in a Star Wars movie.
The Wook
lol...no.
That's a really bad line of reasoning, because Lucas' SWIQ plummeted somewhere between 1980 and 1983.
No. She held it in contempt, claiming it was all white men. And then rubbed her hands together with a maniacal laugh when she took the reins of the franchise, hell-bent to tear it down and re-make it in accordance with her SJW agenda.
Hey, you should go rent Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen! I hear it's a better movie than Citizen Kane!!!
Rey is a terrible role model for young girls. She never has to earn anything. Everything just comes to her spontaneously. She is flawless, vice-free, and the most virtuous entity in the galaxy.
Let's leave the Mary Sue treatment to cartoon characters like Kim Possible. Not a live-action heroine in a serious production like Star Wars.
Go ahead, go ahead...like Disney Wars to your heart's content. But know that they are not Star Wars films, they are SWINO films. If ya don't know that, then your SWIQ is in question.
Liking the movies does not make you less of a fan. I would never question someone's passion for Star Wars. I only ever question their SWIQ--their understanding of what things do and do not belong in a Star Wars movie.
The Wook
Last edited:
Paul Andrew
Master Member
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
With all due respect, that SWIQ stuff is a load of condescending horse****. You're a guy in a wookie suit, not the final arbiter of what is and isn't Star Wars. We're here because we all like Star Wars and your high/low SWIQ crap serves no end but to gratify your own opinions with the added effect of coming off a bit nerdier than thou. We're all geeks here, no need for a lightsaber measuring contest.
Of course, you're more than welcome to voice your opinions about what does and doesn't belong in Star Wars. But if you could lay off generalizing it in a way that reads as if those who don't agree with you are in some way lesser, or LOW, that would be rad.
With all due respect, that SWIQ stuff is a load of condescending horse****. You're a guy in a wookie suit, not the final arbiter of what is and isn't Star Wars. We're here because we all like Star Wars and your high/low SWIQ crap serves no end but to gratify your own opinions with the added effect of coming off a bit nerdier than thou. We're all geeks here, no need for a lightsaber measuring contest.
Of course, you're more than welcome to voice your opinions about what does and doesn't belong in Star Wars. But if you could lay off generalizing it in a way that reads as if those who don't agree with you are in some way lesser, or LOW, that would be rad.
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
I agree that little girls should have a kick ass figure to look up to. Her name is Princess Leia and she has been there from the very first film.
I can think of ten fictional female characters that are written better than Rey is.
-Princess Leia
Selena Kyle
Ellen Ripley
Katniss Everdeen
Hermione Granger
Imperator Furiosa
The Bride
Princess Buttercup
Eowyn
Arywen
Galadriel
Mary Jane Watson
Wonder Woman
Marion Ravenwood
Basically every female Marvel character
Hell that's more than ten and that's just the start! I don't think it's so much of a need to tear Rey down as much as as she just pales in comparison to her peers.
I think fans are hyper critical of Rey not because she is a woman or Daisy Ridley but they hold her character to a higher standard because she is the protagonist of their favorite film series. Structurally speaking this entire trilogy rests on her character's journey. Her development is more central to the story than any other character because we are supposed to be witnessing everything through her eyes.
Plus because Luke Skywalker was the protagonist of the original films people will either fairly or unfairly judge her in comparison to him. Let's face it, Luke set the bar pretty high. Rian Johnson had to tear Luke down as a character because he isn't a strong enough of a writer to come up with a story that would adequately challenge Rey where she would rise to Luke's level. I think they started off strong with Rey up until she left Jakku. After that point her conflict and subsequently her character arc became less clear and ultimately suffered because of poor writing. I know other fans feel differently and they are entitled to their opinion. If little girls look up to her, I am all on board with that. I just think there are other female leads that are better role models and who are better developed than she is.
As for Kathleen Kennedy possibly stepping down it honestly doesn't make any difference to me. I feel that the Star Wars name has been sullied by The Last Jedi and that because identity politics has been so pervasive in dividing the fanbase they will be hard pressed to save the series. It's bad enough that we can't discuss politics without devolving into shouting matches and name calling. Now we can't even discuss Star Wars without losing all semblance of civility. I've said some incredibly harsh things about the films, the directions the films are going, the writing, and even the people at Lucasfilm, but I try my best to respect that other fans may feel differently than I do. I may disagree with someone, strongly, and can even say with confidence I think they're wrong, but I would never be so disrespectful to say they aren't entitled to their opinion.
I agree that little girls should have a kick ass figure to look up to. Her name is Princess Leia and she has been there from the very first film.
I can think of ten fictional female characters that are written better than Rey is.
-Princess Leia
Selena Kyle
Ellen Ripley
Katniss Everdeen
Hermione Granger
Imperator Furiosa
The Bride
Princess Buttercup
Eowyn
Arywen
Galadriel
Mary Jane Watson
Wonder Woman
Marion Ravenwood
Basically every female Marvel character
Hell that's more than ten and that's just the start! I don't think it's so much of a need to tear Rey down as much as as she just pales in comparison to her peers.
I think fans are hyper critical of Rey not because she is a woman or Daisy Ridley but they hold her character to a higher standard because she is the protagonist of their favorite film series. Structurally speaking this entire trilogy rests on her character's journey. Her development is more central to the story than any other character because we are supposed to be witnessing everything through her eyes.
Plus because Luke Skywalker was the protagonist of the original films people will either fairly or unfairly judge her in comparison to him. Let's face it, Luke set the bar pretty high. Rian Johnson had to tear Luke down as a character because he isn't a strong enough of a writer to come up with a story that would adequately challenge Rey where she would rise to Luke's level. I think they started off strong with Rey up until she left Jakku. After that point her conflict and subsequently her character arc became less clear and ultimately suffered because of poor writing. I know other fans feel differently and they are entitled to their opinion. If little girls look up to her, I am all on board with that. I just think there are other female leads that are better role models and who are better developed than she is.
As for Kathleen Kennedy possibly stepping down it honestly doesn't make any difference to me. I feel that the Star Wars name has been sullied by The Last Jedi and that because identity politics has been so pervasive in dividing the fanbase they will be hard pressed to save the series. It's bad enough that we can't discuss politics without devolving into shouting matches and name calling. Now we can't even discuss Star Wars without losing all semblance of civility. I've said some incredibly harsh things about the films, the directions the films are going, the writing, and even the people at Lucasfilm, but I try my best to respect that other fans may feel differently than I do. I may disagree with someone, strongly, and can even say with confidence I think they're wrong, but I would never be so disrespectful to say they aren't entitled to their opinion.
Last edited:
Paul Andrew
Master Member
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
I don't agree with you Psab, but that's cool. I wouldn't put Rey at the top of my list but she'd be on it. Also, being a dude I'm not sure making a list of females is ok in any context anymore lol
I don't agree with you Psab, but that's cool. I wouldn't put Rey at the top of my list but she'd be on it. Also, being a dude I'm not sure making a list of females is ok in any context anymore lol
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
Lol. I hear you.
I wish I felt differently about Rey and that I loved her character. I really wish I did. Daisy Ridley is super talented and has a lot of charisma but I just can't get past they way they wrote her character. Oh well. This new Star Wars is not for me and that's ok.
Lol. I hear you.
I wish I felt differently about Rey and that I loved her character. I really wish I did. Daisy Ridley is super talented and has a lot of charisma but I just can't get past they way they wrote her character. Oh well. This new Star Wars is not for me and that's ok.
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
Haven't most of these Disney SW movies had director issues? I mean, there was Josh Trank and Boba Fett, Colin Trevorrow and Episode Nine, Tony Gilroy & Gareth Edwards on Rogue One, and of course Lord/Miller and Ron Howard on Solo...? And didn't Rinzler have a great behind-the-scenes look at TFA that got $hi+canned by Lucasfilm?
Haven't most of these Disney SW movies had director issues? I mean, there was Josh Trank and Boba Fett, Colin Trevorrow and Episode Nine, Tony Gilroy & Gareth Edwards on Rogue One, and of course Lord/Miller and Ron Howard on Solo...? And didn't Rinzler have a great behind-the-scenes look at TFA that got $hi+canned by Lucasfilm?
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
Little girls looking up to Rey, really? Even as she attacks Luke and risks everything to put Kylo on the FO throne? Because only she is strong enough to change the mass murdering older man into a prince? You've got to be kidding.
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
Yes.
Trank was released primarily because of the BO performance of "F4" and his "personal problems" working on set. You cannot fault LF for saying no.
Garth Edwards has been very quiet on the whole R1 process, but it seems to have dogged his career ever since.Again ,reading between the lines, there appear to be "disagreements" on its overall direction during production and its interesting to note that despite being a huge SW fan he says he would never direct another, so its safe to say he didn't enjoy it entirely.He's not done much since.
Miller and Lord have had very little to say , but lets be honest, it was a huge mistake to let them complete virtually 3/4 of the filming and then fire them. That initially call to hire them was a very poor decision given the tone of all their previous work. And a costly one. Given that 70% had to be reshoot its amazes me Solo worked as well as it did but it could have been alot better had Lucasfilm decided on the kind of film they wanted in the first place. The blame for that lies squarely with the management.
Colin Tremorrow was slightly less complex ."The Book of Henry"was critically panned and bombed at the BO , then what happened in Episode 8 and Carries death made the original treatment with Ep 9 rather more difficult to do. As he hints at it was hard to come up with a script that suited "everybody" so he walked. He stood by his choices but LF didn't like them so it made total sense to split for both of them.
But all this hassle with management of the films is causing a problem for Lucasfilm now. Star Wars is dangerously close to becoming a difficult brand within the industry because the chances are if you were originally hired to directed it you won't get to finish the film.
Which is why they struggled so hard to get anybody to direct Ep 9 and JJ eventually had to step back in. Given the backlash on Ep 8 its going to be a hell of a task to pull a story together thats going to win over the fans again as well as genral audiences.
BUT there is strong evidence that things ARE changing at Lucasfilm and they are trying to develope a more experienced directing base instead of taking risks.
I actively cheered when I read about Benioff and Weiss developing a trilogy. If a Boba Fett movie moves into production then Mangold is the guy to direct it. And Favreau is a great choice for a TV series.
If anybody is likely to go as a result of all this bad feeling I think Rians neck is on the block.
I think Rian Johnson wrote TLJ purely as a Kennedy "pleaser" inorder to secure his version of a SW trilogy. He bribed her with a scipt that gave her everything she might have wanted to see in a SW movie and so willfully destroyed many of the caveats that made the mythology important to the core fans., I blame him more than KK for the bulk of this problem.And lets not forget that JJ was more than happy to let that script pass unchallenged. So not all the blame is on her. Johnson needs to go because the hate for his trilogy is already built in.
And I don't think its possible KK willl go before the last "Raiders" is filmed. I just don't feel DIsney would risk that along side the instability it would introduce, particularly given her relationship with Steven Spielberg and with so many projects under development Going forward KK is obviously trying to build a stronger structure at LF .Lets hope she succeeds before she leaves.
Yes.
Trank was released primarily because of the BO performance of "F4" and his "personal problems" working on set. You cannot fault LF for saying no.
Garth Edwards has been very quiet on the whole R1 process, but it seems to have dogged his career ever since.Again ,reading between the lines, there appear to be "disagreements" on its overall direction during production and its interesting to note that despite being a huge SW fan he says he would never direct another, so its safe to say he didn't enjoy it entirely.He's not done much since.
Miller and Lord have had very little to say , but lets be honest, it was a huge mistake to let them complete virtually 3/4 of the filming and then fire them. That initially call to hire them was a very poor decision given the tone of all their previous work. And a costly one. Given that 70% had to be reshoot its amazes me Solo worked as well as it did but it could have been alot better had Lucasfilm decided on the kind of film they wanted in the first place. The blame for that lies squarely with the management.
Colin Tremorrow was slightly less complex ."The Book of Henry"was critically panned and bombed at the BO , then what happened in Episode 8 and Carries death made the original treatment with Ep 9 rather more difficult to do. As he hints at it was hard to come up with a script that suited "everybody" so he walked. He stood by his choices but LF didn't like them so it made total sense to split for both of them.
But all this hassle with management of the films is causing a problem for Lucasfilm now. Star Wars is dangerously close to becoming a difficult brand within the industry because the chances are if you were originally hired to directed it you won't get to finish the film.
Which is why they struggled so hard to get anybody to direct Ep 9 and JJ eventually had to step back in. Given the backlash on Ep 8 its going to be a hell of a task to pull a story together thats going to win over the fans again as well as genral audiences.
BUT there is strong evidence that things ARE changing at Lucasfilm and they are trying to develope a more experienced directing base instead of taking risks.
I actively cheered when I read about Benioff and Weiss developing a trilogy. If a Boba Fett movie moves into production then Mangold is the guy to direct it. And Favreau is a great choice for a TV series.
If anybody is likely to go as a result of all this bad feeling I think Rians neck is on the block.
I think Rian Johnson wrote TLJ purely as a Kennedy "pleaser" inorder to secure his version of a SW trilogy. He bribed her with a scipt that gave her everything she might have wanted to see in a SW movie and so willfully destroyed many of the caveats that made the mythology important to the core fans., I blame him more than KK for the bulk of this problem.And lets not forget that JJ was more than happy to let that script pass unchallenged. So not all the blame is on her. Johnson needs to go because the hate for his trilogy is already built in.
And I don't think its possible KK willl go before the last "Raiders" is filmed. I just don't feel DIsney would risk that along side the instability it would introduce, particularly given her relationship with Steven Spielberg and with so many projects under development Going forward KK is obviously trying to build a stronger structure at LF .Lets hope she succeeds before she leaves.
Egon Spengler
Master Member
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
I have less interest in the last part of this new trilogy than I do a Solo sequel to be honest and honestly, I really am down for a Solo sequel.
I have less interest in the last part of this new trilogy than I do a Solo sequel to be honest and honestly, I really am down for a Solo sequel.
JPH
Sr Member
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
"Fun" is *NOT* dumbing down and destroying a popular movie franchise. There is nothing "fun" about pissing on fans because you think they'll accept anything.
"Fun" is NOT slapping true fans in the face by making Sharknado look intelligent, or by recycling the Disney "orphan saves the day" plot line and claiming it to be unique.
"Fun" - You keep using that word, I don't think it means what you think it means.
For those who understand, we are simply insisting that, "if you want our money, you must offer a better product."
Gee, spend millions of dollars on a movie, at least use some basic, common sense.
Everyone *should* be happy for a better product. Instead, we have to post embarrassingly stupid events from a bad film because some folks think "fun" excuses lack of common sense. Think of us like your counsellors for a support group in bad decision making.
Art is subjective, face palming because bombers flew really close to each other, armed their bombs, and BLEW EACH OTHER UP!
You call that art?
For most of us it was distractingly stupid. That lack of common sense is not acceptable in a "Star Wars" movie.
In a movie like Dumb and Dumber...oh yeah, makes perfect sense!
Keep your Dumb and Dumber out of my Star Wars, and I will watch. Make Star Wars more Dumb and Dumber, and we boycott and people will get fired, and I will spend my money elsewhere.
See how that works?
Still upset over people wanting better product? Sheesh
"Fun" is *NOT* dumbing down and destroying a popular movie franchise. There is nothing "fun" about pissing on fans because you think they'll accept anything.
"Fun" is NOT slapping true fans in the face by making Sharknado look intelligent, or by recycling the Disney "orphan saves the day" plot line and claiming it to be unique.
"Fun" - You keep using that word, I don't think it means what you think it means.
For those who understand, we are simply insisting that, "if you want our money, you must offer a better product."
Gee, spend millions of dollars on a movie, at least use some basic, common sense.
Everyone *should* be happy for a better product. Instead, we have to post embarrassingly stupid events from a bad film because some folks think "fun" excuses lack of common sense. Think of us like your counsellors for a support group in bad decision making.
Art is subjective, face palming because bombers flew really close to each other, armed their bombs, and BLEW EACH OTHER UP!
You call that art?
For most of us it was distractingly stupid. That lack of common sense is not acceptable in a "Star Wars" movie.
In a movie like Dumb and Dumber...oh yeah, makes perfect sense!
Keep your Dumb and Dumber out of my Star Wars, and I will watch. Make Star Wars more Dumb and Dumber, and we boycott and people will get fired, and I will spend my money elsewhere.
See how that works?
Still upset over people wanting better product? Sheesh
Paul Andrew
Master Member
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?
Fun means whatever the person having fun thinks it means. Why would I adhere to your definition? Clearly you don't like what I like.
I'm not going to debate the quality of the film, that's a different thread and I've no energy for it. Don't like it all you want. Be as angry as you want.
I'm not upset that people want a 'better product'. I'm aggravated at the implication that anyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong. It's subjective because it's a movie.
Fun means whatever the person having fun thinks it means. Why would I adhere to your definition? Clearly you don't like what I like.
I'm not going to debate the quality of the film, that's a different thread and I've no energy for it. Don't like it all you want. Be as angry as you want.
I'm not upset that people want a 'better product'. I'm aggravated at the implication that anyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong. It's subjective because it's a movie.
- Status
Similar threads
