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  1. SethS's Avatar
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    Dec 23, 2017, 3:43 PM - Thick traces on PCBs #1

    I am always loath to challenge old established evidence... but...

    Updating the guide, and I've put screencaps of all the cards I could find next to each other. Aside from a struggle to get a good Hoth screencap, I think I've got a good view of all of them. The Adywayn enhanced ESB still of the R2 bump, and the image @GINO posted showing off the Dagobah saber last week are especially clear.

    My question is-- at this point, I'm not seeing any onscreen evidence of thick traces being used anywhere, outside of the one on the end of the Barbican card. Like I say in the text, I'm not saying it isn't possible-- because if there are multiples of every prop, and one PCB could have both thick and thin (as the Barbican shows), it's certainly possible some model somewhere had thick traces... I just don't see it onscreen.

    Does anyone have any decent shots that show thick traces?

    And just to cause @slothfurnace some extra stress over the holiday season-- the Dagobah and Bespin cards both look to have the traces coming off the the centers of the bands, as well as the sides like we see for TFA.



    ...(and I've already fixed the typos).
    Last edited by SethS; Dec 23, 2017 at 4:10 PM.
  2. RPF Premium Member thd9791's Avatar
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    Dec 23, 2017, 4:15 PM - Re: Thick traces on PCBs #2

    I've never seen any either, except for the one trace on the Barbican like you said. I've only seen them on replicas and I never knew why
  3. RPF Premium Member roygilsing's Avatar
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    Dec 23, 2017, 5:45 PM - Re: Thick traces on PCBs #3

    Yeah, I discussed this with Seth earlier and I also never understand why it is. I assume that a replica started it once (MR?) and got stuck and common in the collective mind.
  4. SethS's Avatar
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    Dec 24, 2017, 2:07 PM - Re: Thick traces on PCBs #4

    I need to fix this— the. ISYHCANL has flush brass rails, the pic I have here is the cave build box
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    Dec 24, 2017, 2:28 PM - Re: Thick traces on PCBs #5

    SethS said: View Post
    I need to fix thisó the. ISYHCANL has flush brass rails, the pic I have here is the cave build box
    Yeah, I was gonna say...

    Here ya go, if it helps:

    Click image for larger version. 

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  6. SethS's Avatar
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    Dec 24, 2017, 4:00 PM - Re: Thick traces on PCBs #6

    I got it-- don't worry.

    thank you!

    Though I am realizing, we've always assumed the cave build and ISYHCANL were the same with a changed box. We know the ISYHCANL was shot AFTER principle photograph had wrapped, and the cave build scene was during production since Mark Hamil was in it.

    Given that the cave build version is what we've seen post-production as the hero, this might mean the ISYHCANL is actually a separate saber since it came second, but we've never seen that box again.
    @halliwax @thd9791 @teecrooz

    --what do you guys think of that?
  7. SethS's Avatar
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    Dec 24, 2017, 4:16 PM - Re: Thick traces on PCBs #7

    Revised-- the PCB is actually the same on both versions for the purposes of this page.

    I'm just wondering now about the hero saber...
  8. RPF Premium Member roygilsing's Avatar
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    Dec 24, 2017, 6:00 PM - Re: Thick traces on PCBs #8

    The PCB's might look the same, but might not be the same parts. Right? So they probably build a new saber with a new box for the ISYHCANL scene. Because if the hero would have been around, they would have used that without replacing the box. So they built the ISYHCANL saber which has never been seen anymore?
  9. SethS's Avatar
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    Dec 24, 2017, 6:06 PM - Re: Thick traces on PCBs #9

    That's what thinking. It might even be the primary Yuma. The simple box looks similar.
  10. RPF Premium Member thd9791's Avatar
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    Dec 24, 2017, 7:34 PM - Re: Thick traces on PCBs #10

    SethS said: View Post
    I got it-- don't worry.

    thank you!

    Though I am realizing, we've always assumed the cave build and ISYHCANL were the same with a changed box. We know the ISYHCANL was shot AFTER principle photograph had wrapped, and the cave build scene was during production since Mark Hamil was in it.

    Given that the cave build version is what we've seen post-production as the hero, this might mean the ISYHCANL is actually a separate saber since it came second, but we've never seen that box again.
    @halliwax @thd9791 @teecrooz

    --what do you guys think of that?
    Oh this is interesting. If the cave scene came before the close-up shot... yes, that would explain the jerry rigged box/saber for that scene, and the one the Archives still has. I really want to know where the close-up one went then. It has the black buttons on it at least. I heard the boxes for Yuma were resin or something, so they were definitely replaceable.
  11. RPF Premium Member halliwax's Avatar
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    Dec 24, 2017, 8:05 PM - Re: Thick traces on PCBs #11

    How do we know for sure the isyhcanl scene was filmed after the cave?


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  12. RPF Premium Member halliwax's Avatar
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    Dec 24, 2017, 8:12 PM - Re: Thick traces on PCBs #12

    I have a hard time believing itís two different sabers. The 3 bottom rings look exactly the same

    What are the chances they machined them perfectly on 2 sabers?



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    Dec 24, 2017, 8:15 PM - Re: Thick traces on PCBs #13

    SethS said: View Post
    That's what thinking. It might even be the primary Yuma. The simple box looks similar.
    This was my assumption.


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  14. RPF Premium Member halliwax's Avatar
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    Dec 24, 2017, 8:27 PM - Re: Thick traces on PCBs #14

    Tapatalk updated today... why do they have to change stuff... learning curve all over again

    So I went back reading. The isyhcanl scene they say the box is resin?!?!


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  15. RPF Premium Member halliwax's Avatar
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    Dec 24, 2017, 8:29 PM - Re: Thick traces on PCBs #15

    thd9791 said: View Post
    Oh this is interesting. If the cave scene came before the close-up shot... yes, that would explain the jerry rigged box/saber for that scene, and the one the Archives still has. I really want to know where the close-up one went then. It has the black buttons on it at least. I heard the boxes for Yuma were resin or something, so they were definitely replaceable.
    The barge saber looks like itís aluminum to me. Just like you made it, that box could be removed real easy with those 2 screws right there

    They could have glued the circuit card and rails on, and simply removed as installed a new box for electronics.

    We need to prove when what scene was filmed

    MS where are you buddy? You are a time stamp expert, help us out
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    Dec 24, 2017, 10:08 PM - Re: Thick traces on PCBs #16

    halliwax said: View Post
    The barge saber looks like it’s aluminum to me. Just like you made it, that box could be removed real easy with those 2 screws right there

    They could have glued the circuit card and rails on, and simply removed as installed a new box for electronics.

    We need to prove when what scene was filmed

    MS where are you buddy? You are a time stamp expert, help us out
    You rang?

    so, Yuma definitely came first. I can’t seem to find the exact date of the ISYHCANL pickup. And, the cave build scene was definitely Mark’s penultimate scene filmed in all of ROTJ with the funeral pyre being the very last.. I think it’s hard to believe they would go back or recreate the ISYHCANL set so much later, so I have to believe that the pickup occurred at a smiliar time to when the full scene was filmed. It was all shot on Elstree anyway so would have been easy.
  17. SethS's Avatar
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    Dec 24, 2017, 10:11 PM - Re: Thick traces on PCBs #17

    I just PMed this to Halliwax, but I'll repeat it here...

    I feel like I've read here repeatedly that the ISYHCANL insert shot was done during post back in Cali. I have a pic of the stand-in actor and Marquand shooting it in the guide. It's not unusual for stand ins to do insert shots during production on small budget pics where you don't want to pay principles when you don't need them-- but Star Wars was never hurting for budget and it's not like Prowse was asking for Harrison Ford dollars... I feel like they could have got the shot on set.

    It seems like the sort of shot you'd think of in post-- watching an edit and realizing you need an insert to sell a beat.

    Really, it's a question for somebody who's got the call sheets.

    I feel like the cave-build was shot first-- which does then raise the mystery of what happened to it,

    Cause matching up the rings has some weight as well.
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    Dec 24, 2017, 10:12 PM - Re: Thick traces on PCBs #18

    I should clarify one thing in my previous post. Everything with the V2 came first. When I said Yuma was first I meant in the context of the “Hero Variants.

    so it looks like it went V2, Yuma, ISYHCANL, Cave build.
  19. SethS's Avatar
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    Dec 24, 2017, 10:15 PM - Re: Thick traces on PCBs #19

    V2 first for sure, Yuma, then V3?

    I'm still not sold on cave vs ISYHCANL over which came first.

    Also, I'm shocked no one has ever done an ISYHCANL box run-- I like it SO much more. The standard hero box is the thing that has made me always dislike that saber.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, also-- it's Xmas eve, and it;s my birthday, and I couldn't be happier arguing about 30 year old props with people in the internet.
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    Dec 24, 2017, 10:17 PM - Re: Thick traces on PCBs #20

    SethS said: View Post
    I just PMed this to Halliwax, but I'll repeat it here...

    I feel like I've read here repeatedly that the ISYHCANL insert shot was done during post back in Cali. I have a pic of the stand-in actor and Marquand shooting it in the guide. It's not unusual for stand ins to do insert shots during production on small budget pics where you don't want to pay principles when you don't need them-- but Star Wars was never hurting for budget and it's not like Prowse was asking for Harrison Ford dollars... I feel like they could have got the shot on set.

    It seems like the sort of shot you'd think of in post-- watching an edit and realizing you need an insert to sell a beat.

    Really, it's a question for somebody who's got the call sheets.

    I feel like the cave-build was shot first-- which does then raise the mystery of what happened to it,

    Cause matching up the rings has some weight as well.
    that was my original understanding and I’ve seen the pic. But the cave scene and funeral pyre were filmed long after many cuts had been done. Mark was apparently coming to some part or early viewing and they had him shoot those scenes very late. You could be right that ISYHCANL still came after, but that was already really late and I can’t find a definitive date for that pickup.
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    Dec 24, 2017, 10:21 PM - Re: Thick traces on PCBs #21

    SethS said: View Post
    V2 first for sure, Yuma, then V3?

    I'm still not sold on cave vs ISYHCANL over which came first.

    Also, I'm shocked no one has ever done an ISYHCANL box run-- I like it SO much more. The standard hero box is the thing that has made me always dislike that saber.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, also-- it's Xmas eve, and it;s my birthday, and I couldn't be happier arguing about 30 year old props with people in the internet.
    i know I was thinking the same. I love talking props on Xmas eve. Happy Birthday btw!

    I guess techincally, V2, V3 (cause the V3 shows up in the throne room right? If so, then this order is correct) then Yuma, then maybe ISYHCANL, then cave (or that last part reversed.)
  22. SethS's Avatar
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    Dec 24, 2017, 10:28 PM - Re: Thick traces on PCBs #22

    Are the funeral pyre and cave scenes pick ups-- or just at the end of principle? Cause if they were also pickups, then ISYHCANL could still be first.

    In the scene proper with Hamil and Prowse you have some stills with Vader holding the V3, but in the movie in wide shots it's the V2. The stand in shot also looks to be a simple flat backdrop as opposed to the more full set.

    ..but I'm spit balling...
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    Dec 24, 2017, 11:04 PM - Re: Thick traces on PCBs #23

    SethS said: View Post
    Are the funeral pyre and cave scenes pick ups-- or just at the end of principle? Cause if they were also pickups, then ISYHCANL could still be first.

    In the scene proper with Hamil and Prowse you have some stills with Vader holding the V3, but in the movie in wide shots it's the V2. The stand in shot also looks to be a simple flat backdrop as opposed to the more full set.

    ..but I'm spit balling...
    So Iím probably a bit out of my depth on terminology here. My understanding on the cave and funeral pyre was that they were done long after principle. I think they did at least 2 rough cuts and decided they needed more. Mark came to ILM for. Christmas party and they filmed those scenes. So I donít know if thatís still called a pickup at that point?

    Youíre definitely right about the matte painting. For some reason I was thinking it was still more of the old set. But either way, Iím still intrigued because Marquand is in that shot directing it, seemingly alone.

    If I am to understand the books correctly, George saw Marquands rough cut and was not happy and got way more involved from then on. Thatís why in the BTS of the cave shot, George is with Marquand doing it together. George could still be in the background of course with the ISYHCANL shot too. But my gut is leaning towards cave build last.


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  24. SethS's Avatar
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    Dec 25, 2017, 12:29 AM - Re: Thick traces on PCBs #24

    Pick-ups are generally any singular insert shots or brief scenes, or added angles to existing scenes done after principle has wrapped. Sometimes they are directed by a second unit director, in the case of Star Wars, Lucas could have directed them.

    Reshoots are when you are doing new scenes, or re-doing scenes after wrap with a full crew.

    So it sounds like the cave and funeral were pick-ups as well. If that’s true, then we could back to where we started.

    That would also mean the “hero” wasn’t in principle photography at all!
  25. RPF Premium Member roygilsing's Avatar
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    Dec 25, 2017, 12:52 AM - Re: Thick traces on PCBs #25

    It almost feels like we were there! Interesting thread. Like you say Seth, it makes more sense that they build the hero last, including a more detailed box on top of the same saber base.

    Happy birthday Seth! And merry Christmas everybody!!

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