Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)

jlee562 said:

Wait a minute, didn't Luke make it clear during his retelling and flashback that he realized that he wasn't going to go through with it?

Click to expand...

Your right he was not going to kill him and only thought about it for a second.IMO that one second he thought about it was Luke,IMO Luke would have never had the thought to begin with.

Inquisitor Peregrinus said:

I get the feeling that -- while the extant films spend a lot of time centered on them -- the general public doesn't seen Jedi all that often, if ever. A million inhabited systems in the GFFA, and many of them probably never call for a Jedi to show up there. Many probably never even leave the main temple on Coruscant. They're probably on par with Delta teams combined with Benedictine monks. We've heard of them, if we even think they aren't a myth, we might be surprised to find they're actually still around... *shrug* Not sure how much the Jedi were played up in the Clone Wars news stories. May have come as a surprise to a lot of the population that they were still around/actually existed. So most would likely not have much investment in them when the Emperor said they turned traitor. A general "Oh... Really? That's awful. Kill the bastards."

Easy then to see that, a couple of decades later, Motti could sneer at Vader like that. There's the Church of the Force, and a few hot spots like Jeddha, or worlds like Alderaan or Chandrila where the people know that the Jedi and the Force are real and what they're about. But I'd say Motti and Han convey the general attitude toward Jedi in that era. There's stuff here and there in the old EU and new canon ancillary material of the Empire trying to dismiss Luke as propaganda. There were some in the new government who were wary of letting him set up a new Jedi Order, as look what happened last time. Odds are very few people even knew he was training a new generation of Jedi, and even fewer knew where. Given Rey was born around 15 ABY, and was on her own on Jakku from age eight, if her parents, before they dumped her, or folks around Niima Outpost ever mentioned Jedi, she probably took it as fairy tales or spacer stories.

And yeah, it is hard to see Luke hurting that bad. When one stumbles that hard, it can take a few years on walkabout to get your head straight. With nothing to jar him out of it, he might have spent the rest of his life there. He also might have found enough mental peace in another year or three or ten to open up again and realized things were worse with him hiding than not. We'll never know.

(Also, I fixed my math goof in my prior post.)

--Jonah

Click to expand...

You make some great points.

As far as the Clone Wars go, as least according to the EU, Anakin Skywalker, Jedi Knight, was the poster boy for the war effort, and IIRC, he was declared KIA as the only loyalist amongst all the other “traitorous” Jedi. There is even that scene at the beginning of ROTS where Anakin and Obi-Wan lament having to deal with politicians and the press. But 20 years is a long time, long enough for Palpatine to manipulate the media into letting the Jedi fade into obscurity.

Nonetheless, it wasn’t like Rey heard the name “Luke Skywalker” and said “Oh, yeah.....that guy. I think I might have heard of him somewhere....”. Luke - whether deemed real or mythical - was definitely a known quantity, even for a marginalized scavenger on a jerkwater planet like Jakku.

Anyway, as you said, it was hard to see Luke hurting like that. Whether it was 15, 10 or five years on Ahch-To, I would have hoped that he would have found a way to recognize his momentary failing with Ben, but also recognize that he was still a net-positive force (no pun intended) for the galaxy. I was surprised that Yoda had to come back all those years later and explain to Luke how failure is the greatest teacher.

Hunk a Junk you got it 100%,and that’s not the beer talking.

Master Boda said:

Your right he was not going to kill him and only thought about it for a second.IMO that one second he thought about it was Luke,IMO Luke would have never had the thought to begin with.

Click to expand...

If Luke thought about murder even for a second, it invalidates the lesson he learned in ROTJ. The only reason Johnson put it in there is because he needed a reason for Ben/Kylo to hate Luke -- and, man, destroying the saga's main protagonist in order to score a quick plot device is a cinematic crime.

Hunk a Junk said:

If Luke thought about murder even for a second, it invalidates the lesson he learned in ROTJ. The only reason Johnson put it in there is because he needed a reason for Ben/Kylo to hate Luke -- and, man, destroying the saga's main protagonist in order to score a quick plot device is a cinematic crime.

Click to expand...

Everything you just said is wrong. -Luke Skywalker

karmajay said:

Everything you just said is wrong. -Luke Skywalker

Click to expand...

It's amazing.

I like how the still had an opening scrawl at the beginning I'm thankful that is still a part of the movies .they certainly did not need it .

With this movie literally overlapping itself by a few seconds we see Rey walk up to Luke and hand him the sword again .
With the direction they went with the movie I'm
Surprised it did not go like this ?

JEDI MASTER Luke Skywalker was rethinking his choice of a chli Bean and PORGE breakfast when he hears footsteps behind him, turning to tell the INDIGENCE creatures who act as caretakers to the ANCIENT temple that he was good on towel's . he is confronted by an UNKOWN young woman who presents him with his fathers old LASER sword . the old MASTERS first thoughts . HOPE they fixed the door on the bathroom I've got to go !

Hey Gang! I got home at 12:40PM this afternoon having seen the early showing of The Last Jedi this morning. I've stayed away from TheRPF and all other Star Wars forums, TV commercials, etc., since Thursday night for fear of seeing spoilers. I flipped on the computer and came directly here when I got home. If anyone is just now hopping into this thread, and wondering how long it takes to read all 37 pages of it... it's... I literally can't do the math right now... 9 hours 35 minutes, give or take to catch up with everyone's opinions on the latest installment of our beloved franchise.

I'm too tired now, but here's my quick take on it...

As a lightsaber guy, I'm heartbroken at the mistreatment of the GRAFLEX lightsaber, from the beginning when Luke tosses it over the cliff to it being torn in half by Rey and Kylo Ren. I hope that Rey is able to reconstruct it in Episode IX since she recovered both halves of it and it seemed as though the crystal was still within it.

It irks me when George Lucas says 'laser swords' and even more so that Luke said it in this movie. I appreciate the the idea that it was said in spite to Rey, @CT1138 , it makes it a less bitter pill to swallow.

I loved the opening space battle!

When I saw Leia Poppins (great phrase!) I was struggling with the lack of movement in her outfit but I remember thinking "Force Angel". I think that comes from the pose she had looking exactly like the angels we have at the top of our Christmas tree with their hands outstretched. Thinking of Carrie then in that manner overrode my "that's not how Leia's outfit would react in outerspace" thought when she started Force Pulling herself back into the ship and I got a little choked up.

Rey's parents sure got a lot more than beer money for selling her if they were able to blast off of Jakku in that spaceship we saw in The Force Awakens. I can't believe Unkar Plutt would have given more than 1/4 portion for her as a scrawny little kid!

Rey being seemingly uneffected by the weight of all those bolders at this stage of her development in terms of being a Force User really makes Luke look incredibly weak in the Force in The Empire Strikes Back and he was the son of the 'Chosen One' who was being trained by a Jedi Master.

Rey is a test tube baby made from Luke's long lost hand and that's why the GRAFLEX called out to her so strongly.

Porgs are going to be the next tribbles. Y'all saw what was going on in the Falcon, so don't deny it!

There's still something wrong with the new Chewie's eyes, too squinty I think.

I totally missed Luke not making marks in the salt and thought he'd cleaned himself up and constructed a new GRAFLEX lightsaber to confront Kylo Ren with assuming he lost the Green lightsaber in the destruction of Kylo's hut/the new Jedi Temple.

Yoda looked like CGI until he started walking towards Luke, and then he was clearly a puppet and I thought he looked vastly better at that point.

That should NOT have been the first time Yoda, or Obi-Wan appeared to Luke since Return Of The Jedi.

And how is it that Luke didn't have lesson #1 be: "Emperor level Dark Side users can fire lightning out of their finger tips and you can block it with your lightsaber!!!!" ?

Did anyone see Luke's Green lightsaber either in his hut or in Rey's drawer with the Jedi texts? Both scenes flashed by too quickly for me to pick up much of anything.

Rose likes Finn. Finn likes Rey. Rey likes Poe? Poe likes Holdo but she's 'One with the Force' now so that will never happen.

I'm still in shock that we lost the GRAFLEX lightsaber, and Luke Skywalker in one movie and have little hope of seeing Princess Leia in the next one.

All in all I thought it was O.K. I definitely don't yet have the "I have to race back into the theater and see it again!" feeling. I still haven't voted in this thread's poll. I have to get to bed and try and get some sleep. And here I thought it was difficult to fall asleep last night with all the anticipation I had building up to see the movie for the first time this morning! I sure hope tonight goes easier, but my mind is still spinning out questions and memories of the movie that weren't answered and were good and bad and conflicting in such disarray because my mind is so tired from spending all day reading that I just might lay there until 4:00AM before finally succumbing to exhaustion.

May the Force be with us all! I think we need it.

harrisonp said:

I hate these pretentious reviews that imply if you aren't well and truly buying what RJ is putting down then YOU are the problem and lack the vision to grasp his profound artistry. There are parts of this movie that are pretty great, some that seem good on paper where the execution is lacking, and some that are downright awful. That doesn't stem from the fact that Johnson is "deconstructing" Star Wars as I keep seeing it worded, or that people are wrong for having their gripes with it.

Click to expand...

Well said.

joshvanrad said:

It just isn't my job to put together a tight, cohesive story. You do that in the writers room and I pay my money to see it. I shouldn't have to leave a theater picking out the parts that worked from the parts that didn't just to have a pleasant viewing experience. It is either well-crafted or it isn't. Again, and I can't reiterate this enough... it is not about individual plot points or having my expectations subverted. Everyone loves a good twist (read: expectations subverted), but it has to be done well in order to enjoy it. This movie had ABSOLUTELY AMAZING elements in it. Like someone else said, someone will make a crazy-good fan edit of this film. But the way it stands right now it is just a sloppy film with a lot of forced humor and bad writing.

Luke dying didn't subtract from the film. Leia using the force did not subtract from the film. Humor does not subtract from the film. Having Snoke killed abruptly does not subtract from the film. Surprise twists don't subtract from the film. Having the good guys appear to be ineffective does not subtract from the film. BUT if you want to do all of those things you have to make it work. You can't just toss it in there and think that makes for an interesting story. Things should tie together. It should feel like one solid movie from front to back. People should have motivations and consequences. I am a firm believer that in films EVERYTHING that happens should have an impact. EVERYTHING should play into other parts of the story. This movie simply didn't have that.

Click to expand...

Yup.

:thumbsup

Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi has made twice the money in 4 days than Justice League has made in a month of release (5 weekends).

karmajay said:

Everything you just said is wrong. -Luke Skywalker

Click to expand...

"Bite me, Luke, you coward. You used to be cool. And smart. And a hero. How could you forget how you saved the galaxy the first time, you putz?!" -Hunk a Junk

:cheers

Hunk a Junk said:

Okay, this is going to sound harsh, but imagine we're sitting in a bar having a cold one with a smile on my face as I lay this on my Star Wars brethren. :cheers

Just so we're clear, in Return of the Jedi (the climax of the OT's story arc), Luke was presented with a conflict: his greatest enemy -- the guy threatening the entire galaxy -- the guy he needed to defeat (i.e. KILL) in order to save the galaxy -- was also his father. He was told by both Obi-Wan AND Yoda that he needed to confront and defeat Vader because "the good man" was "lost" (i.e. already dead). So Luke had to kill his dad. THAT's the conflict. THAT's the setup for the trilogy's climax. What makes Luke a hero is that when confronted with a need to commit patricide to save the galaxy, Luke instead defied his masters and came up with a different option: turn his father back from the dark side -- something Obi-Wan and Yoda told him is impossible. Luke tries it anyway. He turns himself in to the Emperor, he's willing to put his LIFE on the line -- to even put the entire galaxy at risk -- in the hopes that he could retrieve this tiny glimmer of goodness still clinging to life inside Vader. Luke did that. He THREW AWAY his lightsaber. He rejected violence. He told the emperor he'd rather die than kill his father. He WON that victory by NOT giving into murder. And it WORKED! He saved his dad and saved the galaxy. Huzzah! Luke learned that lesson 35 years ago....

But NOPE! Rian "I made Looper" so I'm a ****ing filmmaking genius" Johnson decides he needs a cheap plot device to give the audience a quick thrill so he throws out the ENTIRE POINT OF RETURN OF THE JEDI. Nope! Luke hasn't learned the lesson that murder isn't the way to solve a problem. He just somehow forgets that love and compassion are the ways of the Jedi. He just blanked on the whole "my relative is evil but it's up to me to save them and bring them back" idea. Even though it WORKED before. It's like Johnson never even saw Return of the Jedi. If Luke is willing to kill his own nephew for being evil -- even for a MICROSECOND -- it makes the ending of ROTJ completely pointless. He learned NOTHING! That's why people are losing their minds about this.

So, I'm sorry, it's not powerful. (again, beer talk :cheers) It's complete ignorance on Johnson's part of the climax of the OT and BAD BAD BAD HORRIBLY ****TY SOPHOMORIC WRITING! It's perhaps the clearest evidence that the people running Not-Lucasfilm either don't know what they're doing or don't care. For my money, this is a WAAAAAAAYYY more horrendous failure than "Han shot first", Jar Jar, or anything else fans have been complaining about for years. This ruins the ending of the OT. Luke's victory? Not a victory. If he can try to kill his nephew after all that, he's learned nothing and the series has no point.

Click to expand...

No wonder most Star Wars films don't rely on flashbacks - when they do, oh man... But yeah, that irked me as well - it's like Kylo's entire raison d'être is predicated on some misunderstanding straight out of "Three's Company." There seems to be a lot of "Can Kylo be redeemed?" in the narrative discussion - didn't he and the First Order kill millions and millions in Force Awakens? How do you even come back from that?

alienscollection.com said:

How do you even come back from that?

Click to expand...

Vader did....

I hate the flashbacks as well. They sold them better as Force visions in TFA. Now they're doing it just like any other movie.

I think it was Trey Parker who talked about how he always tried to write his story's with because, because, because moving the story along . every time he wrote using and then and then and then to propel it , it just fell flat !

This movie was almost all and then's .

This is why Luke was ruined by this new film. It completely undermined his entire struggle with his father.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ8ir66M5XU

This guy gets it!

A List Of Some Of The Times The Last Jedi Told The Older Star Wars Movies To Eat ShI+

https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/a-list-of-some-of-the-times-the-last-jedi-told-the-olde-1821396631

The Last Jedi's best moment is a "f you" to George Lucas and J.J. Abrams

https://www.avclub.com/the-last-jedis-best-moment-is-a-****-you-to-george-lu-1821372373

This.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

joshvanrad said:

It just isn't my job to put together a tight, cohesive story. You do that in the writers room and I pay my money to see it. I shouldn't have to leave a theater picking out the parts that worked from the parts that didn't just to have a pleasant viewing experience. It is either well-crafted or it isn't. Again, and I can't reiterate this enough... it is not about individual plot points or having my expectations subverted. Everyone loves a good twist (read: expectations subverted), but it has to be done well in order to enjoy it. This movie had ABSOLUTELY AMAZING elements in it. Like someone else said, someone will make a crazy-good fan edit of this film. But the way it stands right now it is just a sloppy film with a lot of forced humor and bad writing.

Luke dying didn't subtract from the film. Leia using the force did not subtract from the film. Humor does not subtract from the film. Having Snoke killed abruptly does not subtract from the film. Surprise twists don't subtract from the film. Having the good guys appear to be ineffective does not subtract from the film. BUT if you want to do all of those things you have to make it work. You can't just toss it in there and think that makes for an interesting story. Things should tie together. It should feel like one solid movie from front to back. People should have motivations and consequences. I am a firm believer that in films EVERYTHING that happens should have an impact. EVERYTHING should play into other parts of the story. This movie simply didn't have that.

Click to expand...

Hunk a Junk said:

Okay, this is going to sound harsh, but imagine we're sitting in a bar having a cold one with a smile on my face as I lay this on my Star Wars brethren. :cheers

Just so we're clear, in Return of the Jedi (the climax of the OT's story arc), Luke was presented with a conflict: his greatest enemy -- the guy threatening the entire galaxy -- the guy he needed to defeat (i.e. KILL) in order to save the galaxy -- was also his father. He was told by both Obi-Wan AND Yoda that he needed to confront and defeat Vader because "the good man" was "lost" (i.e. already dead). So Luke had to kill his dad. THAT's the conflict. THAT's the setup for the trilogy's climax. What makes Luke a hero is that when confronted with a need to commit patricide to save the galaxy, Luke instead defied his masters and came up with a different option: turn his father back from the dark side -- something Obi-Wan and Yoda told him is impossible. Luke tries it anyway. He turns himself in to the Emperor, he's willing to put his LIFE on the line -- to even put the entire galaxy at risk -- in the hopes that he could retrieve this tiny glimmer of goodness still clinging to life inside Vader. Luke did that. He THREW AWAY his lightsaber. He rejected violence. He told the emperor he'd rather die than kill his father. He WON that victory by NOT giving into murder. And it WORKED! He saved his dad and saved the galaxy. Huzzah! Luke learned that lesson 35 years ago....

But NOPE! Rian "I made Looper" so I'm a ****ing filmmaking genius" Johnson decides he needs a cheap plot device to give the audience a quick thrill so he throws out the ENTIRE POINT OF RETURN OF THE JEDI. Nope! Luke hasn't learned the lesson that murder isn't the way to solve a problem. He just somehow forgets that love and compassion are the ways of the Jedi. He just blanked on the whole "my relative is evil but it's up to me to save them and bring them back" idea. Even though it WORKED before. It's like Johnson never even saw Return of the Jedi. If Luke is willing to kill his own nephew for being evil -- even for a MICROSECOND -- it makes the ending of ROTJ completely pointless. He learned NOTHING! That's why people are losing their minds about this.

So, I'm sorry, it's not powerful. (again, beer talk :cheers) It's complete ignorance on Johnson's part of the climax of the OT and BAD BAD BAD HORRIBLY ****TY SOPHOMORIC WRITING! It's perhaps the clearest evidence that the people running Not-Lucasfilm either don't know what they're doing or don't care. For my money, this is a WAAAAAAAYYY more horrendous failure than "Han shot first", Jar Jar, or anything else fans have been complaining about for years. This ruins the ending of the OT. Luke's victory? Not a victory. If he can try to kill his nephew after all that, he's learned nothing and the series has no point.

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced TLJ is a disaster. A flippin' disaster.

Click to expand...

Totally agree - this is the only thing for me that undermines the whole of TLJ.
Lea Poppins, Marvel humour, moronic plot holes, all irrelevant compared to this appalling bit of lazy, cheap writing.
Broken, in sanctuary Luke was needed for the story - but how he got there in TLJ was utter nonsense. What idiots signed that off.

I love how the people who love this movie so much have to find a reason why audience scores are so low; because it couldn't possibly be that a lot of people just didn't care for this movie.

I enjoyed it while I was watching it, so I supposed if I were a more casual SW fan instead of the diehard fan I am I would have liked it a lot, but upon reflection, because of the major potholes, the dumb main plot, the complete disrespect of Luke's character (until the end anyway) and for a whole host of other reasons, I didn't like this movie as much as I wanted to. I left this movie so disappointed. Don't get me wrong, Rian made some amazing choices - killing Snoke, Kylo taking his place, Rey's arc, Leia, Haldo (to a degree) - but not enough to save this movie for me.

I've only seen it once, mind you, and I plan to see it again. Now that I know what to expect maybe I can find enough to like to give it a pass. Fingers crossed.