Back to the Future Marty's Holographic Cap (BTTF)
- Thread starter jun
- Start date
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?
There was never any scale issue to begin with. You can't compare how many different colors appear within a given area when one hat is unworn/wrinkled, and the other is worn, with each surface almost flat.
Look at the brim on Indy's hat. The amount of color-change in that area, where the material is flatter, looks just fine.
There was never any scale issue to begin with. You can't compare how many different colors appear within a given area when one hat is unworn/wrinkled, and the other is worn, with each surface almost flat.
Look at the brim on Indy's hat. The amount of color-change in that area, where the material is flatter, looks just fine.
Last edited:
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?
That coloring looks spot-on to both the Lantor material and the current DST licensed replicas, both of which do have the color right but other things wrong. The primary colors appearing on the actual caps were cyan, magenta, and yellow. In some light the colors appear more saturated, while in others they appear duller. The material in that cap looks to be the correct colors.
Besides the colors, the key things to get correct are:
I have recently found a factory in China making the correctly-colored material in TPU so that it can be used for flexible clothing applications like caps, but it looks similar to what you have already. I had planned to order some of this material on my next trip back to the States in December, but again, what you have looks fine already assuming all other details are correct.
Indy, the overall shape of your sample looks to be a little off because of the gradual-ness of the taper of each side panel edge towards the center. This is VERY IMPORTANT: each panel has its own shape. The front two have sides that are almost parallel at the bottom, before tapering to the top. This creates an effect where there is an air gap in front where the cap doesn't touch the front top of the head. The other four panels gradually become more tapered towards the rear, to the point where the back two panels follow the curve of, and fully contact, the head.
My hat maker asked me to provide him with a sample hat that had the correct cut/shape, and he replicated the individual panel shapes from this. I would suggest doing the same.
That coloring looks spot-on to both the Lantor material and the current DST licensed replicas, both of which do have the color right but other things wrong. The primary colors appearing on the actual caps were cyan, magenta, and yellow. In some light the colors appear more saturated, while in others they appear duller. The material in that cap looks to be the correct colors.
Besides the colors, the key things to get correct are:
- Brim size and shape
- Side panel shapes: To replicate the 80s "trucker hat" shape seen on the original, each cap panel is almost square-shaped (parallel sides) at the bottom before the sides taper to form the top of the cap. Some replicas have panels with the sides tilted inwards from the get-go resulting in a modern (but incorrect) fitted cap shape.
- Orientation of the lenticular ridges: Front to back on brim, vertical on each side panel. Some replicas have been made with the ridges at random orientations.
- Misc. details:
- There should be lenticular material on the underside of the brim. Some replicas have had black or other lining material here.
- Aqua stitching
- No brim stiching
- No button on the cap
I have recently found a factory in China making the correctly-colored material in TPU so that it can be used for flexible clothing applications like caps, but it looks similar to what you have already. I had planned to order some of this material on my next trip back to the States in December, but again, what you have looks fine already assuming all other details are correct.
Indy, the overall shape of your sample looks to be a little off because of the gradual-ness of the taper of each side panel edge towards the center. This is VERY IMPORTANT: each panel has its own shape. The front two have sides that are almost parallel at the bottom, before tapering to the top. This creates an effect where there is an air gap in front where the cap doesn't touch the front top of the head. The other four panels gradually become more tapered towards the rear, to the point where the back two panels follow the curve of, and fully contact, the head.
My hat maker asked me to provide him with a sample hat that had the correct cut/shape, and he replicated the individual panel shapes from this. I would suggest doing the same.
Last edited:
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?
Thanks, that should be all the info we need. We'll start on a run of lenticular material and a new sample immediately.
Thanks, that should be all the info we need. We'll start on a run of lenticular material and a new sample immediately.
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?
With the screen used hat even with all the folds it has being a little crumbled like it is, the amount of colors and how close together they are in a given area that you see is not as much as most material that we've seen. That is the biggest key to this hat.
With the screen used hat even with all the folds it has being a little crumbled like it is, the amount of colors and how close together they are in a given area that you see is not as much as most material that we've seen. That is the biggest key to this hat.
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?
The hat you posted still looks to be less wrinkled than Indy's sample. But at any rate, the color shifts are influenced not just by the wrinkles in the material, but by the number, intensity, direction, diffusement, and distance of the light source(s) shining on the hat. It's very difficult to get an apples to apples comparison between two hats photographed under different lighting conditions and draw any definite conclusions. To show the material isn't far off, compare the brims. Indy's has only three colors across it, while the original doesn't have less--it has more, though it's slightly more curved.
If anything, I would say the only alternate I'd like to see is a color print that is a tad less intense/saturated, where the blue looks lighter and instead of a fully saturated magenta, something closer to pink/fuschia. But honestly the colors as they are look much more accurate than the red/blue/yellow that we got with the Miraj caps, and how washed out the colors appear changes from scene to scene, and between what's seen on screen and in real life. That being the case, I would prefer to err on the side of having slightly too much saturation than having it be too washed out.
That said, if it's feasible to do a sample in an alternate, more washed out/pastel-like color palette, and folks prefer those duller colors, I'd be fine with that too.
The hat you posted still looks to be less wrinkled than Indy's sample. But at any rate, the color shifts are influenced not just by the wrinkles in the material, but by the number, intensity, direction, diffusement, and distance of the light source(s) shining on the hat. It's very difficult to get an apples to apples comparison between two hats photographed under different lighting conditions and draw any definite conclusions. To show the material isn't far off, compare the brims. Indy's has only three colors across it, while the original doesn't have less--it has more, though it's slightly more curved.
If anything, I would say the only alternate I'd like to see is a color print that is a tad less intense/saturated, where the blue looks lighter and instead of a fully saturated magenta, something closer to pink/fuschia. But honestly the colors as they are look much more accurate than the red/blue/yellow that we got with the Miraj caps, and how washed out the colors appear changes from scene to scene, and between what's seen on screen and in real life. That being the case, I would prefer to err on the side of having slightly too much saturation than having it be too washed out.
That said, if it's feasible to do a sample in an alternate, more washed out/pastel-like color palette, and folks prefer those duller colors, I'd be fine with that too.
Last edited:
MrSouthpaw
Sr Member
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?
MitasTouch
The smoother panels in front and the sides are the biggest contributors to the relatively smooth color shifting of the movie hat. As presented in the movie.
Even the side panels are more or less vertical. Like when he is looking into the windows of Blast from the Past.
I wonder if some of those hats have a stiffener in them. A few "hero" hats for closeups.
MitasTouch
The smoother panels in front and the sides are the biggest contributors to the relatively smooth color shifting of the movie hat. As presented in the movie.
Even the side panels are more or less vertical. Like when he is looking into the windows of Blast from the Past.
I wonder if some of those hats have a stiffener in them. A few "hero" hats for closeups.
Last edited by a moderator:
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?
Here's the profile of the initial sample:
Here's the profile of the initial sample:
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?
The front looks pretty good as far as having a bit of a square shape, but take a look at the side panel of the screen-used hat in Southpaw's post immediately above yours. You'll note that the side panel has almost the same square-shaped bottom and triangular top, and only the back two panels are tapered to follow the shape of the back of the head.
Interesting...I had thought the side panels were tapered a bit more but that shot is unmistakable.
The front looks pretty good as far as having a bit of a square shape, but take a look at the side panel of the screen-used hat in Southpaw's post immediately above yours. You'll note that the side panel has almost the same square-shaped bottom and triangular top, and only the back two panels are tapered to follow the shape of the back of the head.
Interesting...I had thought the side panels were tapered a bit more but that shot is unmistakable.
Last edited:
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?
@Indy Magnoli, I'm thinking that that screen used hat was stiffer than the material the replicas use so maybe the Sommers material available right now isn't too thick. Close ups from the side seem to show that it doesn't conform to a perfect circle around the head. Rather keeping most of the original shape from the individual panels. The rigidity of the material allows less small wrinkles in the panels so the frequency of seeing multiple colors is reduced. Perhaps the hat was created while using a heat gun to keep the folds at the top of the panels.
@Indy Magnoli, I'm thinking that that screen used hat was stiffer than the material the replicas use so maybe the Sommers material available right now isn't too thick. Close ups from the side seem to show that it doesn't conform to a perfect circle around the head. Rather keeping most of the original shape from the individual panels. The rigidity of the material allows less small wrinkles in the panels so the frequency of seeing multiple colors is reduced. Perhaps the hat was created while using a heat gun to keep the folds at the top of the panels.
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?
A link to the Sommers material was posted a few pages back, and is now inactive: https://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_150421380220612&key=c24426953a5f82ba9a4846ece81abc36&libId=j70y1rze01013dvz000MAdp95rc18&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.therpf.com%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D144604%26page%3D3&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sommers.com%2Fecommerce%2Fspecialties%2Fholographic%2Frainbow-shimmy-sheet.jsp&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.therpf.com%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D144604%26page%3D6%26p%3D4307875&title=Where%20to%20buy%20accurate%20BTTF2%20cap%3F%20-%20Page%203&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sommers.com%2Fecommerce%2Fspe...immy-sheet.jsp
Doesn't look like you'll get it from Sommers. But they never actually made it themselves anyway. They may have sourced it from the same factory that Indy is using at present.
I say again, the caps are sewn inside-out, and must be flipped. The material must be flexible enough to do this.
Mitas, I do agree that the panels look quite taut in that photo, but I'm thinking that this may be the result of the lining used inside the cap being a bit stiff--not the lenticular itself.
A link to the Sommers material was posted a few pages back, and is now inactive: https://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_150421380220612&key=c24426953a5f82ba9a4846ece81abc36&libId=j70y1rze01013dvz000MAdp95rc18&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.therpf.com%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D144604%26page%3D3&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sommers.com%2Fecommerce%2Fspecialties%2Fholographic%2Frainbow-shimmy-sheet.jsp&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.therpf.com%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D144604%26page%3D6%26p%3D4307875&title=Where%20to%20buy%20accurate%20BTTF2%20cap%3F%20-%20Page%203&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sommers.com%2Fecommerce%2Fspe...immy-sheet.jsp
Doesn't look like you'll get it from Sommers. But they never actually made it themselves anyway. They may have sourced it from the same factory that Indy is using at present.
I say again, the caps are sewn inside-out, and must be flipped. The material must be flexible enough to do this.
Mitas, I do agree that the panels look quite taut in that photo, but I'm thinking that this may be the result of the lining used inside the cap being a bit stiff--not the lenticular itself.
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?
That is a good point. If that is a case, a rigid liner would be a must for this new Magnoli replica.
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?
Yeah, I was thinking of having some liner put in as all the originals (that shot of MJF with the stunt doubles comes to mind) seem to keep their shape... although the photos of the hat long after filming don't seem to support this.
Also, our factory doesn't want to deviate from the above pattern so it may be a case of going with that one or having to start from scratch again. If we tick all the other boxes, that hat shape doesn't look to be a deal-breaker to my eyes. What do you think?
Yeah, I was thinking of having some liner put in as all the originals (that shot of MJF with the stunt doubles comes to mind) seem to keep their shape... although the photos of the hat long after filming don't seem to support this.
Also, our factory doesn't want to deviate from the above pattern so it may be a case of going with that one or having to start from scratch again. If we tick all the other boxes, that hat shape doesn't look to be a deal-breaker to my eyes. What do you think?
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?
I really think that the shape is the biggest thing that makes the hat look so different from present replicas. Diamond Select and the Universal branded hats have just used a generic hat shape probably because that was the easiest thing to do. But for a hardcore BTTF fan we will always be able to tell the difference. Even if the colors are slightly off from the screen used hat I'm sure most hardcore fans would be ok with that as long as the overall shape is correct. Honestly if you told someone that the sample hat pictures you provided were a Diamond Select hat, no one would question it. That is the reason we want a better replica made.
I really think that the shape is the biggest thing that makes the hat look so different from present replicas. Diamond Select and the Universal branded hats have just used a generic hat shape probably because that was the easiest thing to do. But for a hardcore BTTF fan we will always be able to tell the difference. Even if the colors are slightly off from the screen used hat I'm sure most hardcore fans would be ok with that as long as the overall shape is correct. Honestly if you told someone that the sample hat pictures you provided were a Diamond Select hat, no one would question it. That is the reason we want a better replica made.
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?
It sounds like the pattern they used for the sample is the closest one they have to a trucker hat (which does have a somewhat squared-off front) and they have no interest in trying to come up with a custom pattern for this one order. I would ask if they would make a differently-shaped hat if WE supplied them with a pattern for the 6 panels closer to the screen-used caps, which it seems had squared off panels in both the front AND sides, and tapered/fitted panels in the rear only. They would just need to be able to do basic math to sum the bottom edges of all six of our panels and then re-size them on a copier up/down to match up with the bottom edge sum of their S/M/L/XL/XXL sizes. It's the head circumference measurement arrived at by summing the bottom edges of the 6 vertical patterns that's important.
I think I could come up with the pattern if needed, and have my hatmaker make a hat from the pattern to verify the look. If all approve, we have a pattern to provide them.
If they're not willing to do this I'd at least try to find another factory that would. I mentioned earlier that I know of a Chinese supplier of the correct material in TPU. I can PM you that info (since they said they MAY be able to supply smaller quantities of the material, and I don't want 50 rpf'ers contacting them separately).
If no factory can be found to make the accurate shape, I would still be interested in buying a hat that looks just like the DST caps, but fitted. But I would be willing to pay more for a fitted back AND the correct shape, and it would be a shame not to get both improvements.
It sounds like the pattern they used for the sample is the closest one they have to a trucker hat (which does have a somewhat squared-off front) and they have no interest in trying to come up with a custom pattern for this one order. I would ask if they would make a differently-shaped hat if WE supplied them with a pattern for the 6 panels closer to the screen-used caps, which it seems had squared off panels in both the front AND sides, and tapered/fitted panels in the rear only. They would just need to be able to do basic math to sum the bottom edges of all six of our panels and then re-size them on a copier up/down to match up with the bottom edge sum of their S/M/L/XL/XXL sizes. It's the head circumference measurement arrived at by summing the bottom edges of the 6 vertical patterns that's important.
I think I could come up with the pattern if needed, and have my hatmaker make a hat from the pattern to verify the look. If all approve, we have a pattern to provide them.
If they're not willing to do this I'd at least try to find another factory that would. I mentioned earlier that I know of a Chinese supplier of the correct material in TPU. I can PM you that info (since they said they MAY be able to supply smaller quantities of the material, and I don't want 50 rpf'ers contacting them separately).
If no factory can be found to make the accurate shape, I would still be interested in buying a hat that looks just like the DST caps, but fitted. But I would be willing to pay more for a fitted back AND the correct shape, and it would be a shame not to get both improvements.
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?
Doing some more legwork now... I'll get back to you with the results of our discussions regarding the pattern.
Doing some more legwork now... I'll get back to you with the results of our discussions regarding the pattern.
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?
Alright, if anyone knows where we can get an accurately patterned cap, can make one or even work out patterns, let me know so we can discuss further. Our factory has agreed to copy our own design, so let's put our heads together and get this right!
Alright, if anyone knows where we can get an accurately patterned cap, can make one or even work out patterns, let me know so we can discuss further. Our factory has agreed to copy our own design, so let's put our heads together and get this right!
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?
Well to me it seems that the head shape is similar to a baseball cap, but the visor has to be like a tucker cap?
Well to me it seems that the head shape is similar to a baseball cap, but the visor has to be like a tucker cap?
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?
Unfortunately, no, Emma. The cap shape is much different than modern baseball caps, which are more curved/fitted to the head.
Please see the attachment below. This is what I'm seeing: a cap with 2 front AND 2 side panels that are all identically-shaped, and look like squares with rounded top corners transitioning to triangles, and 2 rear panels that have one side squared-off to meet the rear edge of each side panel, and one side more curved to create a rear curve to follow the head.
View attachment BTTF2 Cap Panel Template.pdf
The attached panel pattern is for a cap with a bottom OUTER circumference of 24"/610mm (actual inner circumference would be reduced by the thickness of the material), which is what I'd call a size Medium. The pattern can be scaled up/down to make other sizes. The only thing I'm not 100% on is the height of each panel. That being the case, the pattern may need to be stretched upwards/downwards if the resulting cap sits too shallow/far-down on the head.
The brim they're using looks fine. It may not be exact, but unless we have a shot of the screen-used cap from directly overhead or beneath, it's difficult to note any discrepancy between their standard brim shape and that used on the screen-used caps. So they can use their own brim pattern.
Hope this helps.
Unfortunately, no, Emma. The cap shape is much different than modern baseball caps, which are more curved/fitted to the head.
Please see the attachment below. This is what I'm seeing: a cap with 2 front AND 2 side panels that are all identically-shaped, and look like squares with rounded top corners transitioning to triangles, and 2 rear panels that have one side squared-off to meet the rear edge of each side panel, and one side more curved to create a rear curve to follow the head.
View attachment BTTF2 Cap Panel Template.pdf
The attached panel pattern is for a cap with a bottom OUTER circumference of 24"/610mm (actual inner circumference would be reduced by the thickness of the material), which is what I'd call a size Medium. The pattern can be scaled up/down to make other sizes. The only thing I'm not 100% on is the height of each panel. That being the case, the pattern may need to be stretched upwards/downwards if the resulting cap sits too shallow/far-down on the head.
The brim they're using looks fine. It may not be exact, but unless we have a shot of the screen-used cap from directly overhead or beneath, it's difficult to note any discrepancy between their standard brim shape and that used on the screen-used caps. So they can use their own brim pattern.
Hope this helps.
Last edited:
MrSouthpaw
Sr Member
Re: Where to buy accurate BTTF2 cap?
I had trouble with stitch stretching and material dimpling when I tried to curve my flat DS hat brim. Would this hat have a similar problem? Can this hat be made with a slightly curved brim?
Also, I was going through the topic. And Indy's sample has a similar shape to the Miraj that MattgomeryBurns posted on page 2. I wonder if the rest of the Miraj is just a standard cap shape. The Miraj seems to have smoother color than a DS hat as well.
I had trouble with stitch stretching and material dimpling when I tried to curve my flat DS hat brim. Would this hat have a similar problem? Can this hat be made with a slightly curved brim?
Also, I was going through the topic. And Indy's sample has a similar shape to the Miraj that MattgomeryBurns posted on page 2. I wonder if the rest of the Miraj is just a standard cap shape. The Miraj seems to have smoother color than a DS hat as well.
