The Future of Star Wars?

I'll be honest: I went into the news about TFA with a very jaundiced eye. I didn't WANT my OT heroes messed with. I wanted that story flung far into the future.

But I came to realize that, as Bryancd has described, that would basically doom the Star Wars to a niche film.

Take a look at the Star Trek franchise right now. That's a best case scenario for what we could've expected if they hadn't basically done what they did with Ep. VII. If, instead, they'd flung the story far into the future (or far enough that it didn't deal with the OT characters), it wouldn't have been as recognizably "Star Wars" as the actual film was. I'm not even gonna touch preserving the EU, either (I'm not even sure everyone who didn't like Ep. VII cares about that, for that matter).

Now, there's another story possibility that they could've done with TFA, but again, I think it's pretty risky.

Imagine a version of TFA where, instead of the First Order already being at war with the Republic/Resistance, you had the galaxy in a state of peace, the Republic doing just fine, Leia is chief of state (Galactic Chancellor? President? Prime Minister? Whatever, you get the idea.). Luke has been training Jedi for a while now, has his own academy, and it's doing fine. Han is either a successful merchant or a general in the Republic military, or something. Chewie is...I dunno. The Wookiee liason to Kashyyk (sp?). R2 and 3PO are trucking around as usual.

Now...how do you introduce a state of affairs into the galaxy that suddenly turns into a galactic civil war AND that rings true? Does the First Order show up out of nowhere? Or do we acknowledge that they've been there all along? If they've been there, how do we explain why the Republic hasn't done squat about it? I mean, they won, right? Shouldn't they have completely dismantled the Imperial military? What's the story there? (That part's manageable, I think, by having simply a group of Imperial Remnant diehards fly off into the uncharted regions of the galaxy, and then come back with a vengeance.)

But the real problem, the real danger, would be (ugh, as usual...) the Jedi. If Luke has been successful, that would require pretty much that there are (1) some graduates of his academy who are powerful enough to work on their own, and (2) a crop of students with whom he's working. So, what do you do to upend all of this in a satisfactory way that introduces drama, and that sets the stage for having some unknowns come along and save the galaxy? I think this is a MUCH heavier lift, narratively speaking. Could it have been done? Maybe. But I think it would've been a real longshot that it would succeed.

From my perspective, Ep. VII was good enough to make me want to see what else LFL's creative team has in mind. If they keep just recycling the old stuff, yeah, that'll grow tired. I saw that already. I can see it any time I want. I'd rather the story go in different directions that don't ape previous films. But I think there's a good likelihood that we'll see that moving forward. Once they get a handle on that, they just need to settle on a better sense of pacing... (Seriously....rathtar sequence was totally unnecessary and could've been swapped out for more exposition)

And dollars to donuts it sounds like Rogue One is going to deliver a new narrative and visual experience that will open up the creative possibilities even further. So, again, the future of Star Wars is very bright indeed.

Bryancd said:

It's like Groundhog Day reading these comments.

Two concepts are competing here when people discuss SW in relation to Disney. TFA is the only film product we have so far so all comparisons are based on that. The success or failure of the entire franchise right now is predicated on your individual opinion of that film. But opinions aren't fact beyond how they apply to the individual. What is fact is what Dan @Solo4114 has presented above. That was the actual reasoning behind the product they created. You can argue they should have given you the EU story or whatever was in your personal head canon but TFA was a very deliberate choice whose financial success has paved the way for a robust schedule of future releases. Had this film been a failure the long term prospects for the franchise would be much more tenuous. IMO, the film it sounds like some of you would have preferred four very well have been that disaster.

You may not like he TFA but TFA effectively saved SW from an uncertain future.

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TFA failed on multiple levels. Yes, it was an uninspired, cynical and egregious rip-off of SW77, that had many fans like me walk out of the theater crestfallen one year ago. So we've go that failure. But beyond that, it was a BAD rip-off! lol A really bad rip-off. I might've been able to eventually embrace a "remake" of SW77 had they done it well. But it sucked. I still would've been tee'd off they were so cynical and uninspired, but if they'd made a good remake, I could have--after a few months of complaining--resigned myself to their reasoning behind rebooting the franchise that way, and for the most part, gotten on board with you TFA fans. I wouldn't have loved it, and I still would've walked out of that theater crestfallen--but I might've grown to like it.

Ah well. Attempt 2 is just ten days away. I'm not optimistic. Not at all--TFA burned me that badly. But I will be there opening night, with an open imagination, and open heart, and open box of Milkduds, and...well, we'll see.

The Wook

Almost forgot...
And Solo went out like a big stupid blubbering chump on top of all the
fail. Cannot be denied.
This is the guy that blew Greedo away!
OH parenthood changes everything some will say.
So tragic and full of feeeeeeelings.
Well what a bunch of DISNEY BS! He would have ended that little emo sissy dope right there!
THAT would have been Han Solo! We all know it.
Fett had a better ending! LOL

The Wook said:

TFA failed on multiple levels. Yes, it was an uninspired, cynical and egregious rip-off of SW77, that had many fans like me walk out of the theater crestfallen one year ago. So we've go that failure. But beyond that, it was a BAD rip-off! lol A really bad rip-off. I might've been able to eventually embrace a "remake" of SW77 had they done it well. But it sucked. I still would've been tee'd off they were so cynical and uninspired, but if they'd made a good remake, I could have--after a few months of complaining--resigned myself to their reasoning behind rebooting the franchise that way, and for the most part, gotten on board with you TFA fans. I wouldn't have loved it, and I still would've walked out of that theater crestfallen--but I might've grown to like it.

Ah well. Attempt 2 is just ten days away. I'm not optimistic. Not at all--TFA burned me that badly. But I will be there opening night, with an open imagination, and open heart, and open box of Milkduds, and...well, we'll see.

The Wook

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Again, that is opinion. The facts paint a very different picture in regards to what was created and the result of that. People need to stop conflating fact vs. opinion. You need to wear two hats. One is what your preference would have been and the other what was the best strategic decision.

CessnaDriver said:

Almost forgot...
And Solo went out like a big stupid blubbering chump on top of all the
fail. Cannot be denied.
This is the guy that blew Greedo away!
OH parenthood changes everything some will say.
So tragic and full of feeeeeeelings.
Well what a bunch of DISNEY BS! He would have ended that little emo sissy dope right there!
THAT would have been Han Solo! We all know it.
Fett had a better ending! LOL

Click to expand...

Okay, so I don't want to be rude, but... Han Solos story is basically that he's a jerk who only cares about himself, and his transformation into a good person, willing to sacrifice himself for the people he cares about. If you think that Han Solo after ROTJ would kill his own son, then you seem to have a very warped perception of his character.

I would also add the future of Star Wars will likely be a bifurcated one. Some people will be all in, others may only consume the films. Some of those may only like the Saga story or the standalone. This diversification is very healthy for the long term prospects of the franchise.

Lots of "feels" here. One's opinion is not wrong of course but I can't help but to see a lot of petty complaints about TFA.

Let's be objective:
-Star Wars remains a strong franchise and brand as a result of TFA
- Financially successful as to justify more films
- New generation of post-Prequal fans, check
- Classic character dead, new heros, new villains established Check.
-toys, models, merchandise, new theme parks, check.

Not much to be unhappy about...

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Toadmeister said:

Lots of "feels" here. One's opinion is not wrong of course but I can't help but to see a lot of petty complaints about TFA.

Let's be objective:
-Star Wars remains a strong franchise and brand as a result of TFA
- Financially successful as to justify more films
- New generation of post-Prequal fans, check
- Classic character dead, new heros, new villains established Check.
-toys, models, merchandise, new theme parks, check.

Not much to be unhappy about...

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Correct. Saying "I didn't like the movie therefore the franchise is in jeapodrdy" isn't a valid argument.

doctorDWwho said:

Okay, so I don't want to be rude, but... Han Solos story is basically that he's a jerk who only cares about himself, and his transformation into a good person, willing to sacrifice himself for the people he cares about. If you think that Han Solo after ROTJ would kill his own son, then you seem to have a very warped perception of his character.

Click to expand...

Nah totally opposite, he WOULD have sacrificed his own son for the greater good, that is even a greater sacrifice than giving up his own life. He would have bit the bullet and Solo'd up! Certainly not get sucker punched at a minimum here man. I mean come on!
And he wasn't much of a "son" anymore than he was a father at that point.

CessnaDriver said:

Almost forgot...
And Solo went out like a big stupid blubbering chump on top of all the
fail. Cannot be denied.
This is the guy that blew Greedo away!
OH parenthood changes everything some will say.
So tragic and full of feeeeeeelings.
Well what a bunch of DISNEY BS! He would have ended that little emo sissy dope right there!
THAT would have been Han Solo! We all know it.
Fett had a better ending! LOL

Click to expand...

I don't know if you have kids or not, but parenthood really DOES change everything.

I seriously doubt I could put my daughter down, no matter how evil she was. If I believed that she was capable of being turned back to good, I'd try everything to make that happen. In that moment, Han really thought Ben would turn. He would do and give ANYTHING to make it happen, to help save his son. Including giving his own life. Which is not to say that he purposefully let himself be killed. I don't think he expected Ben to do that at all. I think he believed he was getting through to him (and I think he WAS getting through to him, but Ben shut that down in the most final way possible).

Solo4114 said:

I don't know if you have kids or not, but parenthood really DOES change everything.

I seriously doubt I could put my daughter down, no matter how evil she was. If I believed that she was capable of being turned back to good, I'd try everything to make that happen. In that moment, Han really thought Ben would turn. He would do and give ANYTHING to make it happen, to help save his son. Including giving his own life. Which is not to say that he purposefully let himself be killed. I don't think he expected Ben to do that at all. I think he believed he was getting through to him (and I think he WAS getting through to him, but Ben shut that down in the most final way possible).

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Absolutely. I watched all the scenes of Han and Leia discussing Ben through the prism of my own fatherhood. When Han touches Ben's face at the very end I get very emotional thinking what if that was my son.

Bryancd said:

Absolutely. I watched all the scenes of Han and Leia discussing Ben through the prism of my own fatherhood. When Han touches Ben's face at the very end I get very emotional thinking what if that was my son.

Click to expand...

I did too! Gets me teary eyed everytime I watch that scene!

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CessnaDriver said:

Almost forgot...
And Solo went out like a big stupid blubbering chump on top of all the
fail. Cannot be denied.
This is the guy that blew Greedo away!
OH parenthood changes everything some will say.
So tragic and full of feeeeeeelings.
Well what a bunch of DISNEY BS! He would have ended that little emo sissy dope right there!
THAT would have been Han Solo! We all know it.
Fett had a better ending! LOL

Click to expand...

Oh dear

J

Well for me...an epic character like Solo went out begging his evil (naughty) son to be good, jeez, and he should have been able to have handled him long long ago and
then he gets sucker punched. Han Freekin' Solo got sucker punched? That blows. Not my Han. I don't see him in this film at all.
I mean when his body fell into the chasm I laughed a bit, really? REALLY?
Reminded me of that silly scene when Anakin turns all dark side in like two seconds. Really?
Didn't work for me. Hey I envy those that loved this film, wish I could be all happy and love it. But the heart wants what it wants.
I can't make myself feel something I don't.
I hated what they did to them, I think I have explained why I felt as I did, it may not make sense to many of you but there it is.
How someone could love this film makes no sense to me, at least not if you were raised on the OT. But many do.
That being said, I will not give up on SW because we have the stand alones coming.
I have my opening night tickets for Rogue One and I'm quite excited. It seems more OT fan friendly anyways obviously.
I was going through a phase where I was not getting excited about much genre related stuff but
I've got my passion back after a few great films the last couple years.

Bryancd said:

Again, that is opinion. The facts paint a very different picture in regards to what was created and the result of that. People need to stop conflating fact vs. opinion. You need to wear two hats. One is what your preference would have been and the other what was the best strategic decision.

Click to expand...

I'm not conflating anything. I said there are two big main problems I have with TFA. One, it is a remake. And two, it is a very poor remake. My point was, that had the latter issue not been true, I might've eventually overlooked the former issue.

Don't get fooled, Bryan, into equating a film's box office haul with its quality. There are many bad or pedestrian films that made lots of money. Including a couple of films that made more money than TFA.

The Wook

The Wook said:

I'm not conflating anything. I said there are two big main problems I have with TFA. One, it is a remake. And two, it is a very poor remake. My point was, that had the latter issue not been true, I might've eventually overlooked the former issue.

Don't get fooled, Bryan, into equating a film's box office haul with its quality. There are many bad or pedestrian films that made lots of money. Including a couple of films that made more money than TFA.

The Wook

Click to expand...

I never qualified why the film is a factual success although I have had this discussion with you but I'm up for another round! Three quantifiable measures of a films "success" are box office, critical reaction, and audience reaction. TFA's box office was an unmitigated success. Critical reaction was incredibly positive as was audience opinions post film as surveyed by numerous aggregators of that data. Home video sales were strong. We are less then a year out from the release but initial indications point to the films success.

The Wook said:

TFA failed on multiple levels. Yes, it was an uninspired, cynical and egregious rip-off of SW77, that had many fans like me walk out of the theater crestfallen one year ago. So we've go that failure. But beyond that, it was a BAD rip-off! lol A really bad rip-off. I might've been able to eventually embrace a "remake" of SW77 had they done it well. But it sucked. I still would've been tee'd off they were so cynical and uninspired, but if they'd made a good remake, I could have--after a few months of complaining--resigned myself to their reasoning behind rebooting the franchise that way, and for the most part, gotten on board with you TFA fans. I wouldn't have loved it, and I still would've walked out of that theater crestfallen--but I might've grown to like it.

Ah well. Attempt 2 is just ten days away. I'm not optimistic. Not at all--TFA burned me that badly. But I will be there opening night, with an open imagination, and open heart, and open box of Milkduds, and...well, we'll see.

The Wook

Click to expand...

I just dont understand how you could have walked out of the theater before it ended. Ok, so lets put this in perspective. If you just bought something for 4 billion dollars, how would YOU have done it? Counsidering youre in a very small minority. How did you feel about the prequels? Ew god youre in San Diego too, we might have to fist fight! :lol
@CessnaDriver Well Im glad you liked GotG, cause that is in fact a good movie. So youre not ALL bad. Solo didnt blubber! And dude, who the hell cares about him blowing Greedo away? Youre basing your argument on him shooting some no nothing character in the first half hour of the first movie?! Greedo was trash! I for one could care less about a Han Solo movie. I dont want to know every little detail about him, look at what they did to Darth Vader. I guess I mean I dont want George Lucas handling anything, cause look what he did to Vader, but since thats out of his hands, MAYBE it could be cool. Yeah, you SHOULD feel something when Han Solo died! You didnt?

Seriously though, if they just adapted the Timothy Zahn movies well, I wouldnt care to ever see another star wars movie again. I LOVE those stories.

Actually Senior Citizen Ford isn't really in my beloved box anymore, after Crystal Skull
I lost a lot of gosh golly for him. So the starting point was poor to begin with.
Basically TFA Solo is another animal to me. General Solo of the Rebel Alliance
wasn't going back to smuggling. Smuggling what? Where? Why? Nonsense to me.
So I wasn't caring much about him at that point anyways. TFA Solo threw away his life
going back to being a nothing again, and when he starts to give a damn again, he blows it.


I love tons of big hits lately, Bond, Interstellar, The Martian, Doctor Strange, Fury Road.
TFA and Jurassic World while were at it were not on my nostalgia love list. I stand outside of the adulation
confused and alienated on them. Nothing against most of the actors either.
It may be that JJ Abrams creative DNA is incompatible with my tastes. I wish all of hell upon him
for screwing up my beloved Star Trek. Channeling Khan there a bit. For hate's sake I spit my last breath etc etc LOL

Toadmeister said:

Lots of "feels" here. One's opinion is not wrong of course but I can't help but to see a lot of petty complaints about TFA.

Let's be objective:
-Star Wars remains a strong franchise and brand as a result of TFA
- Financially successful as to justify more films
- New generation of post-Prequal fans, check
- Classic character dead, new heros, new villains established Check.
-toys, models, merchandise, new theme parks, check.

Not much to be unhappy about...

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

I don't think we can discount the impact that this film had in re-launching the entire franchise. It's well more than just a film franchise. Rebels continues. Disney banked on the success of Star Wars as a brand to the point where half of its line for it's Infinity game for consoles was dedicated to Star Wars (granted, the Infinity game ultimately was closed down, but that was less to do with the success of the individual character lines, and more to do with issues surrounding production of the "toys-to-life" game as a whole). There are a ton of action figures, new comic books, new novels, new video games, new TV shows (Rebels), etc.

The only thing that comes close in comparison is the Disney/Marvel franchise. Think about what a freaking juggernaut the Marvel film franchise is, and how it has permeated popular culture. Now do the same thing with Star Wars. That is what they're trying to do.

What's more, they're trying to do it in a post-Avengers (2012) world. In 2008, when Iron Man came out it was just another superhero movie. It had a little teaser/hint at the end about what was to come, but that was it. Then we got the first Cap film, the first Thor film, the Hulk film, and so on, until it finally built up to the Avengers, which was like nothing anyone had seen before. See, it's not just enough to have a successful movie today. It's not just enough to have a series of successful movies. What the Marvel films successes have shown is that you can create an entire entertainment ecosystem that people buy into. Films, TV/streaming shows, comic books, novelizations, toys, toys for younger kids, collectibles for adults, lunchboxes, backpacks, clothing, Halloween costumes, video games, mobile apps, the sky is the limit.

But the films serve as the launchpad, and for any of that to happen, one film -- the first one -- has to really make it big. That was the job that TFA had to do. That is why they played it as safe as they did.

And it worked. By any objective measure, it worked. Rogue One will need to be a solid hit, too, of course, but more people are gonna go see Rogue One because of their experience seeing TFA than the other way round. And it's worth noting just how unthinkable Rogue One would have been even five years ago. If someone told you that there was gonna be a Star Wars film about characters you'd literally never heard of with next to no connection to the ones you had heard of (other than simply existing in the same universe), I expect people would've thought "Huh. Sounds interesting to me, but I bet almost nobody sees it without Luke, Han, Leia, etc."

TFA made that film possible, and opened the door to all the future films that will (likely) come after. Admittedly, I'm less sanguine about the Young Han Solo Chronicles, but that's the beauty of the new approach: it doesn't matter. There'll be another film coming after that one that I'll probably like. It's the same reason why, even though the first Thor movie was only "Good, not great," it didn't matter.

CessnaDriver said:

Nah totally opposite, he WOULD have sacrificed his own son for the greater good, that is even a greater sacrifice than giving up his own life. He would have bit the bullet and Solo'd up! Certainly not get sucker punched at a minimum here man. I mean come on!
And he wasn't much of a "son" anymore than he was a father at that point.

Click to expand...

CessnaDriver said:

Well for me...an epic character like Solo went out begging his evil (naughty) son to be good, jeez, and he should have been able to have handled him long long ago and
then he gets sucker punched. Han Freekin' Solo got sucker punched? That blows. Not my Han. I don't see him in this film at all.
I mean when his body fell into the chasm I laughed a bit, really? REALLY?
Reminded me of that silly scene when Anakin turns all dark side in like two seconds. Really?
Didn't work for me. Hey I envy those that loved this film, wish I could be all happy and love it. But the heart wants what it wants.
I can't make myself feel something I don't.
I hated what they did to them, I think I have explained why I felt as I did, it may not make sense to many of you but there it is.
How someone could love this film makes no sense to me, at least not if you were raised on the OT. But many do.
That being said, I will not give up on SW because we have the stand alones coming.
I have my opening night tickets for Rogue One and I'm quite excited. It seems more OT fan friendly anyways obviously.
I was going through a phase where I was not getting excited about much genre related stuff but
I've got my passion back after a few great films the last couple years.

Click to expand...

Han Solo is my favorite Star Wars character. Period. End of discussion. Always has been, always will be. I've dressed as him for Halloween multiple years. My favorite Star Wars blaster is the DL-44. My fantasy, ideal, imagine-your-perfect video game is basically little more than a "Han Solo Simulator." I LOVE Han Solo.

But I also get why he did what he did. This is his kid, man. His kid. I don't care how much of a ****** your kid is. They're still your kid and you still love them. And, moreover, if you think that you really have a chance to turn them back to good rather than kill them, you'll take it.

And, again, he was succeeding at turning Ben -- which is why Ben killed him. Whatever Ben's goal is, it requires him to really be evil, so he had to take the steps necessary to ensure his own evil. Han didn't go out like a chump. He went out believing that good will ultimately triumph over evil, that love triumphs over hate, that his son was still, in some small part of himself, a good person, capable and worthy of love. And it was working. Watching that scene, it is clear to me that Adam Driver was really playing the internal conflict he felt at wanting to give up being evil, and feeling compelled (for reasons as yet unexplained) to do be evil. Han was breaking Ben's resolve, so Ben took the drastic step of removing Han from the picture because that was the only way to ensure he'd stay evil.

That's not Han going out like a chump. That's Han being a tragic hero.

Bryancd said:

I never qualified why the film is a factual success although I have had this discussion with you but I'm up for another round! Three quantifiable measures of a films "success" are box office, critical reaction, and audience reaction. TFA's box office was an unmitigated success. Critical reaction was incredibly positive as was audience opinions post film as surveyed by numerous aggregators of that data. Home video sales were strong. We are less then a year out from the release but initial indications point to the films success.

Click to expand...

Exactly. The film was a monster hit. The highest grossing film domestically of all time. One of the top 20 (currently #11) adjusted for inflation of all time. A critical hit, an audience hit, and -- it seems -- the film that launched 1000 merchandising deals/spinoffs.

Time will tell if Disney/LFL can keep this success rate up, but I'm optimistic.

Also, none of this is to say that the film wasn't flawed. It was. Nor is it to say that I don't still think that I might have preferred to see a different film (i.e., the one I've imagined in my head). I would. Kinda, anyway. My imagined film is a little hazy on the details. But all that aside, even with my own criticisms of the film, it was objectively a mega-success that has paved the way for an exciting future for the franchise.

Can't say the same about JJ's other franchise...