Alien: Covenant (Post-release)

I also wish there was a bit more david experiment stuff, and how exactly the pathogen mutated things, did it have to be a whole, or could he mutate, say just a part of Shaw. I like the idea of him combining different animals til he got somethhing facehuggery. but would have liked too see the early/medium steps in action.

I loved the movie, but I wish there were more scenes with David where he described what exactly he was able to accomplish with the Engineer's creation. The basics of what the Engineer's pathogen did already existed, as can be seen in the relief sculpture on the wall of the temple in Prometheus. The basic alien/deacon/neomorph creature is there, the face hugger is there, possibly a queen (although I always hated that idea), but I'm not sure about the egg stage. There are a few shapes in the sculpture that could be the egg, or not. That could be David's contribution. Shaw was supposedly sterile, so I doubt the egg was a result of something he did with her. The xeno in the original film was cocoon morphing Brett and Dallas into eggs, so perhaps that's something David was able to engineer the deacon or neo version to do.

Overall, all he really did was modify what they had already designed, and It did not seem that he had any complex equipment to do any genetic modification. What he seemed to be doing was more akin to a breeding program than anything else. Breeding and refining for certain traits.
 
That's an excellent reply.

Were not really talking about breathable atmosphere though because LV-426 and the planet in Covenant both had breathable atmospheres and both the Colonists, and crew of the Covenant (it can be assumed) were told it was OK to not wear a suit.

Both planets had some 'undetected' hazard.

Alien is an OK movie, i just wish Dallas hadn't opened the airlock, what an idiot! ruined the film for me. (now that's sarcasm :))

That is actually a good point. ALIENS, do you have an answer to this question?
Ripley: Van Leuwin, why don't you just check out LV-426?
Van Leuwin: Because I don't have to. There have been people living there for 20 years and they've never complained about any hostile organisms.
Ripley: What do you mean? What people?
Van Leuwin: Terraformers, planet engineers. They go in, set up these big atmosphere processors to make the air breathable. Takes decades. It's what we call a shake-n-bake colony.​

With that simple exchange, we learn that LV-426 has been colonized and engineers have been altering it's atmosphere to be more hospitable for humans to live on. Ergo, the movie just explained to you why the characters don't need to wear space suits on a planet where you had to previously.
 
@lovelyandy I get that you like this movie, and that youre defending it, but multiple people have given reasons as to why the spacesuit thing is relevant, and youre star trek/star wars analogies arent.

Also, they didnt wear spacesuits in Aliens because people colonized LV-426 for over 2 decades.

Yeah it makes me think too. Like, how the hell the human race survived that long considering the dumb ass **** people do in space. :lol
Jeyl said my exact point when I was typing this. Got stuck at work so I had my reply open for awhile.
 
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Also, they didnt wear spacesuits in Aliens because people colonized LV-426 for over 2 decades.

But why weren't the Marines wearing any type of protective suits when they went there to investigate? They had no idea what happened to the colonists. Were they too dumb to realize it could have been a deadly pathogen? They had already been told by one person that there was a deadly alien organism on the moon! Why didn't they send Bishop down first to investigate before sending people who could have been infected?

Was James Cameron too dumb to include explanations in his movie as to why his characters ignored basic things like this? Was he too dumb to understand things like pathogens? Or maybe he did think of this, but thought the audience he made the film for was smart enough to understand that would have been something the Marines tested for, therefore it was not necessary to show it.
 
Agreed the Alien universe is nothing like ST/SW, It was more raising a point that in some movies its ok in some its the biggest plot hole since sliced bread.

If they had worn spacesuits, i'd have the same feelings about the movie, Sure, they could have worn them, but as others have pointed out, it wouldn't have mattered. (So why not just do it? budget? probably saved a few grand not making 10(?) space helmets.

That its such a sore point for people just baffles me as much as that they can't imagine this alt advanced universe so much so that the movie/characters to them is/are dumb.


Are we watching a horror movie or a space documentary?

I wonder if people in the 80s phoned each other on a landline or sent chain letters moaning about how we didnt see a King Alien or any of the drones impregnating the queen in Aliens.

Like I said, this is the first Alien movie released in my adult cinema going life and I enjoyed the hell out of it.

Could it have been better, yep.

Does it deserve to be slated? No, but thats the world we live in.

Im not going to change anyones mind, im sure of that, but i've had a great evening listening to music, drinking margaritas and talking about a film i like, so i thank everyone who contributed, tonight, in the past, and in the future.


I get the feeling that in real life this would be a really fun coversation/argument, but online it loses some of that.


@lovelyandy I get that you like this movie, and that youre defending it, but multiple people have given reasons as to why the spacesuit thing is relevant, and youre star trek/star wars analogies arent.

Also, they didnt wear spacesuits in Aliens because people colonized LV-426 for over 2 decades.

Yeah it makes me think too. Like, how the hell the human race survived that long considering the dumb ass **** people do in space. :lol
@Jeyl said my exact point when I was typing this. Got stuck at work so I had my reply open for awhile.
 
But why weren't the Marines wearing any type of protective suits when they went there to investigate? They had no idea what happened to the colonists. Were they too dumb to realize it could have been a deadly pathogen? They had already been told by one person that there was a deadly alien organism on the moon! Why didn't they send Bishop down first to investigate before sending people who could have been infected?

Was James Cameron too dumb to include explanations in his movie as to why his characters ignored basic things like this? Was he too dumb to understand things like pathogens? Or maybe he did think of this, but thought the audience he made the film for was smart enough to understand that would have been something the Marines tested for, therefore it was not necessary to show it.
I already explained that. Was the basis of two movies some mysterious black goo that can do anything? With no explanation at all? Cause lets face it, without this mysterious deues ex goo, there wouldnt be Prometheus, and there wouldnt be Alien Covenant. I dont get how youre not understanding why most of us see not wearing protection on an uncharted world is asinine and it being a lazy reason for things to happen.

Alien established how the Alien life cycle worked. The only thing that was touched upon on Aliens is how the eggs came to be, which Ridley effectively retconned due to his ego I'd wager.

I cant think of any character in Aliens that defied common sense like the morons in Alien Covenant. Can anyone make a clear comparison to what Im trying to get at vs what the characters in Aliens did, since Kit Rae is comparing the two?
lovelyandy I totally agree with that last sentence.
 
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Aliens:

We've lost contact with a colony on some alien planet we've terraformed.

It could be nothing.....or it could be something we need a group of soldiers for.

Nothing in between like an alien virus.....definitely not, do we need to run scans? nah, do we need to put on spacesuits? nah. do we need flamethrowers and smart guns........Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh yes maybe.

I already explained that. Was the basis of two movies some mysterious black goo that can do anything? With no explanation at all? Cause lets face it, without this mysterious deues ex goo, there wouldnt be Prometheus, and there wouldnt be Alien Covenant. I dont get how youre not understanding why most of us see not wearing protection on an uncharted world is asinine and it being a lazy reason for things to happen.

Alien established how the Alien life cycle worked. The only thing that was touched upon on Aliens is how the eggs came to be, which Ridley effectively retconned due to his ego I'd wager.

I cant think of any character in Aliens that defied common sense like the morons in Alien Covenant. Can anyone make a clear comparison to what Im trying to get at vs what the characters in Aliens did, since Kit Rae is comparing the two?

- - - Updated - - -

Im really enjoying this but the overzealous criticism is astonishing.



Also calling something Deux Ex Goo, then stating in Alien hunners of unexplained eggs is totally fine is fun.
 
I also wish there was a bit more david experiment stuff, and how exactly the pathogen mutated things, did it have to be a whole, or could he mutate, say just a part of Shaw. I like the idea of him combining different animals til he got somethhing facehuggery. but would have liked too see the early/medium steps in action.

I'm not sure he was responsible for the creation of the face hugger, since a version of it was already seen on the temple wall in Prometheus. I think he refined it to what we saw in Covenenat, which looked more-or-less the same as the one in Alien. The egg it came from was very different than the ones in alien though, as was the xenomorph in Covenant. The versions in Alien must have been developed later after experimenting more with the colonists.

It is interesting that the incubation time of xenos he bred in Covenant were super fast, but the later version in Alien took much longer and was not born fully formed. I can see an advantage there in spreading the organism by having the longer delay. The incredibly fast growth rate seems to be the same as in Alien.
 
I cant think of any character in Aliens that defied common sense like the morons in Alien Covenant. Can anyone make a clear comparison to what Im trying to get at vs what the characters in Aliens did, since Kit Rae is comparing the two?
@lovelyandy I totally agree with that last sentence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeAc5DFh7PE

A cool crew yes, a benchmark crew no.
 
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I think you need to take those videos with a grain of salt. Im not saying the crew is perfect, Im just saying there wasnt anything that comes to mind that defies common sense but hey, could be beating a dead xenomorph here.

I`m on a salt free diet and the video is what it is and needs no additives. Its funny, to the point and in no way takes away from what Aliens means to me. You cant take a microscope to these movies and wear rose coloured glasses at the same time.
 
I`m on a salt free diet and the video is what it is and needs no additives. Its funny, to the point and in no way takes away from what Aliens means to me. You cant take a microscope to these movies and wear rose coloured glasses at the same time.
But some of the "sins" are ridiculous. I also think the guys voice is grating. I think Im just not a fan of those videos, regardless of which movie they are doing.
 
Obviously some of the sins are simply to ridicule in fun, but most of them point out the sheer amount of stupidity in the film, if you over analyze it. There is quite a bit more they could have ranted on about!

By far, Aliens has the most amount of stupid people doing stupid things of any movie in the Alien series (not including Resurrection and those AVP things), but it now ranks as the second favorite film in the series among the fans.
 
ive been checking out some of the artists responsible for Davids drawing on instragram and theres pics of things like mermaids purses (not sure what their science name is) and other facehuggery things. So i think he had a hand in at least refining them. Plus the cool covenant B&W poster wiht he engineers and xenos has weird protofacehuggers on engineers.

I'm not sure he was responsible for the creation of the face hugger, since a version of it was already seen on the temple wall in Prometheus. I think he refined it to what we saw in Covenenat, which looked more-or-less the same as the one in Alien. The egg it came from was very different than the ones in alien though, as was the xenomorph in Covenant. The versions in Alien must have been developed later after experimenting more with the colonists.

It is interesting that the incubation time of xenos he bred in Covenant were super fast, but the later version in Alien took much longer and was not born fully formed. I can see an advantage there in spreading the organism by having the longer delay. The incredibly fast growth rate seems to be the same as in Alien.
 
Many of those drawings were indicating experiments David did to the native animal life using the black engineering liquid, so there are all kinds of wacky looking things.

This is what was on the temple wall in Prometheus, so these basic organsims, including the proto face huggers were already in the black liquids "code", so to speak. I suppose those shapes to the left and right of the xenos legs could be a form of egg, and the one dead center at the bottom. The two face hugger looking shapes are straight out of two Giger paintings.

7691786250_9a8f27a6ed_b.jpg68996_468224086550706_1443539704_n.jpg

https://alienseries.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/68996_468224086550706_1443539704_n.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8156/7691786250_9a8f27a6ed_b.jpg
 
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If they filmed the book scene where Walter went out and tested the air for pathogens before telling the crew they did not need EVAC suits, I'm sure all that will be in the deleted scenes section of the Blu Ray, so the complainers can cut together their own spoon-fed version of the movie :) The motes were designed to be undetectable, even down to the molecular scale.

The motes in the movie seem to have some mobility and can collectively move together as one organism. In the book it clearly states they acted as one organism, studied the victim, and made a decision on the point of entry to deposit the pathogen. If the crew were wearing EVAC suits, the motes probably would have attached to the suits and waited for an opportunity to infect when the suit was opened.

Thank you. :D

Though i doubt this very straightforward point is going to change anyone's mind...they are determined to cry hack writing. Let them, I guess.
 
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