Grey
Sr Member
He had an amazing novel to work off of.
Alien: Covenant (Prometheus Sequel)
- Thread starter Mr Webber
- Start date
He had an amazing novel to work off of.
Sadly, having listened to Ridley on todays "The Film Programme" its hard not to agree. At 79 he is unfortunately showing signs of ageing. Listen to the first ten minutes if it will allow you from outside the UK:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08pgbvb#play
Pretty evident that he's bitter about 2-4. Sure, he acknowledges that Aliens is "very good" (understatement of the decade) but HE wants control... so not surprising that he also killed Blomkamp's version. Also, he seems to think he can build Alien inte something like Star Wars? Yeah... senile much.
Some musings on the direction the franchise has gone in..
Like most, I'm not big on Scott's retconning the xenos as genetic advancements of David messing with Enginer bioweapons, thus tying them to Earth. I didn't particularly like the Ancient Astronauts plot of Prometheus, or the ideas of the Space Jockeys being big white guys in helmets (an idea also hated by a number of the design team on Prometheus, incidently).
However, the idea of the xeno as a kind of eldritch abomination, an incomprehensible, self perpetuating horror from a Lovecraft nightmare has been gradually watered down since...Aliens.
Cameron turned the creature into a bug, an organism that followed many of the conventional elements of earth-bound beasties, including queen. Alien Ressurrection gave us Alien/ Human Hybrids. And who even wants to get into Predaliens...
Of course, Ridley's meddling has rid us of the classic mystery of the Space Jockey and the alien's origin, a secret that few wanted to see solved, as it was never going to match up with our imagination. So while Scott has misunderstood the appeal of (O'Bannon and Giger's) original beast, there are some interesting through lines on the other side the equation - humanity.
An equally important part of the 'OT' (to hell with Ressurection) is human hubris. The desire to apply our own baser designs to the unkown, to weaponise it. In Prometheus and Covenant David is actually striving to manipulate this hubris against us - this is a big part of Covenant in particular - to provide the seeds of our own destruction. Assuming that another movie is made, it will be interesting to see if this thread is succesfully woven to full circle (the LV-486 derelect and who created that beacon)
Like most, I'm not big on Scott's retconning the xenos as genetic advancements of David messing with Enginer bioweapons, thus tying them to Earth. I didn't particularly like the Ancient Astronauts plot of Prometheus, or the ideas of the Space Jockeys being big white guys in helmets (an idea also hated by a number of the design team on Prometheus, incidently).
However, the idea of the xeno as a kind of eldritch abomination, an incomprehensible, self perpetuating horror from a Lovecraft nightmare has been gradually watered down since...Aliens.
Cameron turned the creature into a bug, an organism that followed many of the conventional elements of earth-bound beasties, including queen. Alien Ressurrection gave us Alien/ Human Hybrids. And who even wants to get into Predaliens...
Of course, Ridley's meddling has rid us of the classic mystery of the Space Jockey and the alien's origin, a secret that few wanted to see solved, as it was never going to match up with our imagination. So while Scott has misunderstood the appeal of (O'Bannon and Giger's) original beast, there are some interesting through lines on the other side the equation - humanity.
An equally important part of the 'OT' (to hell with Ressurection) is human hubris. The desire to apply our own baser designs to the unkown, to weaponise it. In Prometheus and Covenant David is actually striving to manipulate this hubris against us - this is a big part of Covenant in particular - to provide the seeds of our own destruction. Assuming that another movie is made, it will be interesting to see if this thread is succesfully woven to full circle (the LV-486 derelect and who created that beacon)
MooCriket
Master Member
The reviews seem to be very split. Its amazing how the spoilers from 4Chan a year ago seem 100% spot on.
https://media1.giphy.com/media/hDFyKdd2XBqU/giphy.gif
https://media1.giphy.com/media/hDFyKdd2XBqU/giphy.gif
Jedi-72
Sr Member
I found the ancient astronaut idea in Prometheus far more interesting than the black goo stuff. In the original film, the two mysteries were wondering who the space jockey was and what exactly the alien was. The ship was clearly transporting a cargo of eggs. They were encased beneath a protective layer / shield in a moist environment. They were there for a purpose. And, the ship was transmitting a warning for a reason.That was intriguing. Where Scott is taking all of this is just largely not needed. And, like Lucas, it feels like he didn't watch the original before starting down this path and completely misunderstood what people loved about the original and what really made it great.
I do like the idea of the engineers. I'd rather learn more about them than to learn that the xenomorph is David's science project. That rather kills the creature for me. Like Boba Fett, his strength lies in his mystery. You don't mess with that. Honestly, I don't know that I've ever heard anyone wonder what the exact origin of the xenomorph was. Just feels like wrong instincts all over the place.
I do like the idea of the engineers. I'd rather learn more about them than to learn that the xenomorph is David's science project. That rather kills the creature for me. Like Boba Fett, his strength lies in his mystery. You don't mess with that. Honestly, I don't know that I've ever heard anyone wonder what the exact origin of the xenomorph was. Just feels like wrong instincts all over the place.
DARKSIDE72
Sr Member
I can't wait! Love Ridley Scott!!!!!
matty matt
Sr Member
Jedi-72
Sr Member
I don't fault him on that. Most fans have REALLY lame ideas for what they'd like to see in a movie. He's not wrong. BUT, he IS completely disconnected from the reality of what made the original great and why people love it. That's his problem. In the end, he's just too old. You cannot capture lightning in a bottle 40 years later and hope to pickup where you left off in 1979. Could Pink Floyd go and make a follow up to a Dark Side today that would bare any resemblance to its 1972 forebearer? No way. Case in point...Godfather III. These things should just be left alone.
kristen jones
Master Member
Yeah.... there's no bloody way it'll be as big as Star Wars.
I love Alien... but no.
The old man seems to have lost it. Truly lost it.
kristen jones
Master Member
^God help us all if he does
I'm afraid much of what he says in that interview seems to be bloody nonsense.
A:C gives the fans exactly what they would expect for alot of it,and there are many almost identical scenes and call backs to the original franchise (including the score) and the most pressing of the Prometheus engineer questions are left totally ignored and unanswered.He's appeared to dump that completely because he got so much critisism for it. For a visit to their homeworld I kind of felt underwhelmed, its not really as I imagined it would be.
However, it is obvious that within the new movie Ridley is still trying to lever in this rather belaboured and rather awkward focus on AI in an attempt that as far as I can tell is to form a bridge ( as has been said) between the two universes. He hired the guy who wrote "Transendence" and that kind of weighs heavily in the second half of the movie.
Its one of the weaker points of A:C and the bad news for Ridleyis that its already been and being done (and rather more strongly and better) in the new "Westworld" TV series , which can take its time with building plot and character through the episodic scripts. In A:C you get that heavy handed kind of classically horrible exposition in the dialogue that sounds awfully like a lecture and I'm afraid his obsession with David bares a very close resemblance to one of his other characters, right down to the mannerisms , horrible experiments and detailed anatomical drawings.
And thats my biggest concern for both "Bladerunner 2049" and any future "Alien" films. We've seen this all before and it needs to be done very well indeed if its going to impress us again.
A:C gives the fans exactly what they would expect for alot of it,and there are many almost identical scenes and call backs to the original franchise (including the score) and the most pressing of the Prometheus engineer questions are left totally ignored and unanswered.He's appeared to dump that completely because he got so much critisism for it. For a visit to their homeworld I kind of felt underwhelmed, its not really as I imagined it would be.
However, it is obvious that within the new movie Ridley is still trying to lever in this rather belaboured and rather awkward focus on AI in an attempt that as far as I can tell is to form a bridge ( as has been said) between the two universes. He hired the guy who wrote "Transendence" and that kind of weighs heavily in the second half of the movie.
Its one of the weaker points of A:C and the bad news for Ridleyis that its already been and being done (and rather more strongly and better) in the new "Westworld" TV series , which can take its time with building plot and character through the episodic scripts. In A:C you get that heavy handed kind of classically horrible exposition in the dialogue that sounds awfully like a lecture and I'm afraid his obsession with David bares a very close resemblance to one of his other characters, right down to the mannerisms , horrible experiments and detailed anatomical drawings.
And thats my biggest concern for both "Bladerunner 2049" and any future "Alien" films. We've seen this all before and it needs to be done very well indeed if its going to impress us again.
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ProfKSergeev
Sr Member
Sounded remarkably cogent to me. If you don't like his most recent films (and for the most part I don't), that's one thing. Questioning his sanity is another.
blipper
Sr Member
The 'Kubrick > Shining Footage > studio interference' unsolicited tangent had me going "eh?". The whole piece had the faint air of a desperate man defending questionable decisions while trying to appear confident and in control, imo.
I think Ridley was always like that, to be honest. Listen to any of his commentries or go read Future Noir. The man is an obscenely good visualist and technician who has consistently failed to understand the plots of his best movies. As Mark Kermode states in the review video posted on the post release thread, he's as good as the script he's working with.
Prometheus and Covenant aren't the Alien movies I would have ideally wished for, but they are still a great deal better than 90% of the dreck that gets rolled out in the name of horror and sci-fi these days, at least to me.
Prometheus and Covenant aren't the Alien movies I would have ideally wished for, but they are still a great deal better than 90% of the dreck that gets rolled out in the name of horror and sci-fi these days, at least to me.
Yeah "The Martian" was brilliant , a fairly true to the novel adaptation , though wisely edited and altered for the later stages leading up to the launch. Its just that he didn't create the story to the "Alien" ,that belonged to Dan O'Bannon and Ron Shusett. Ridleys visual genius and ability to direct the tone of the movie were brilliant.
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