Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

The thing to remember:

All of this is a computer program, so the "rules" aren't subject to anything, really. It just has to be convincing for the participants (namely, the SHIELD team). That also means that history isn't strictly subject to, well, anything. There's no reason to even create Thor or Cap or Hulk in the Framework, so there's no need to explain them away. As long as the Framework is internally consistent and convincing to the SHIELD team, you don't need to incorporate literally everything in the Marvel universe into it.
 
Simple, they just have to extend the current storyline into next season and as long they don't kill Ward off (again) before then we'll see Ward in another season.


Or, they could go the tron route. In order to bring out someone who was dead, they could create a machine to digitize them into the world, ala Tron, and Somehow Ward comes along for the ride.
 
In tonight's episode during "The Baksi Report" TV show one of the alternate screens in the control room:

In Memoriam
John Garrett
American Hero

Later the news crawl also mentions Garrett.
 
Anyone else kinda bothered by the political quotes they're throwing in there? I mean, out-of-context, they fit, but with the current political climate in the US, it just kinda bugs me that they're throwing them in.
 
Well in the framework hydra is spreading false I fo to further their agenda. That's what oppressive regimes do.

Seems like people trying to correlate it are reading too much into it.

Just because two things are similar doesn't make them related. These scripts were likely written before the current administration got started as well.
 
Well in the framework hydra is spreading false I fo to further their agenda. That's what oppressive regimes do.

Seems like people trying to correlate it are reading too much into it.

Just because two things are similar doesn't make them related. These scripts were likely written before the current administration got started as well.

I'm not sure you can really argue that reference explicitly to "Alternative Facts" and quoting "Nevertheless, she persisted," could be argued as being coincidental.
 
I'm not sure you can really argue that reference explicitly to "Alternative Facts" and quoting "Nevertheless, she persisted," could be argued as being coincidental.
This was probably written close to a year ago and filmed sometime last fall.

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No way do I buy any of that. That was all entirely intentional (and pretty on-the-nose).
I was going to post something showing that "alternative facts" was from 1984 or something similar, but I cannot find any references prior to January. I think it is highly unlikely the writers hit on the same phrase. It's possible they reshot that scene to add it in.

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I totally missed that. I was hoping maybe Bill would get a cameo before his death....guess he did kinda.
Which makes me wonder, had Bill Paxton not died so unexpectedly, would the writers have written him into this story arc? If so, what do you think his role would have been? A key/high level Hydra agent or good guy like Ward?
 
Which makes me wonder, had Bill Paxton not died so unexpectedly, would the writers have written him into this story arc? If so, what do you think his role would have been? A key/high level Hydra agent or good guy like Ward?
Looks like most everything was flipped, so probably good.
 
I was going to post something showing that "alternative facts" was from 1984 or something similar, but I cannot find any references prior to January. I think it is highly unlikely the writers hit on the same phrase. It's possible they reshot that scene to add it in.

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Yeah, I'd believe reshoots for those scenes, but I think they also tend to film the first half of the series early on, and then gradually shoot the rest. So, the Hydra arc was probably being shot not too long after the inauguration (in time to incorporate "she persisted").

Which makes me wonder, had Bill Paxton not died so unexpectedly, would the writers have written him into this story arc? If so, what do you think his role would have been? A key/high level Hydra agent or good guy like Ward?

Looks like most everything was flipped, so probably good.

I wouldn't be so sure. It's not simply a "mirrorverse." It's more about changing regrets and the trajectories of various characters, based on a few key details. The biggest one being May's failure to kill the inhuman in Bahrain, but others like Fitz wishing he'd had a better relationship with his father (only, you know, his father is EEEEEEEVIL MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA).

Actually, that brings up an interesting issue regarding Ward being a decent guy in this version of Shield. Whose regret does that fix? Is it a deep down regret of Daisy's? Is it someone else's? If the Framework is only meant to correct the regrets of the people that are plugged into it (because how else would the framework know what everyone's regret was?), then who among them regrets Ward being a bad guy AND that being their one big regret? Or does the Framework simply undo a host of regrets (while manufacturing new ones)?
 
Actually, that brings up an interesting issue regarding Ward being a decent guy in this version of Shield. Whose regret does that fix? Is it a deep down regret of Daisy's? Is it someone else's? If the Framework is only meant to correct the regrets of the people that are plugged into it (because how else would the framework know what everyone's regret was?), then who among them regrets Ward being a bad guy AND that being their one big regret? Or does the Framework simply undo a host of regrets (while manufacturing new ones)?

It's not connected to anyone's regret. The framework has many unexpected outcomes based on only changing a couple events. In this case, Coulson not being in Shield and May saving the girl (assuming the latter happened before Ward was recruited) led to Ward getting visited by Victoria Hand and not Garrett. This was a natural outgrowth of the algorithm and not anything Aida designed deliberately.
 
It's not connected to anyone's regret. The framework has many unexpected outcomes based on only changing a couple events. In this case, Coulson not being in Shield and May saving the girl (assuming the latter happened before Ward was recruited) led to Ward getting visited by Victoria Hand and not Garrett. This was a natural outgrowth of the algorithm and not anything Aida designed deliberately.

I guess I just don't see why Coulson not being in Shield and May not having killed the girl would result in Hand recruiting Ward instead of Garrett.

Also, I thought it was about correcting the GREATEST regrets, not literally all regrets. So that part still doesn't make sense.
 
I guess I just don't see why Coulson not being in Shield and May not having killed the girl would result in Hand recruiting Ward instead of Garrett.

Also, I thought it was about correcting the GREATEST regrets, not literally all regrets. So that part still doesn't make sense.

I believe that Aida did mention that it was in part about correcting people's greatest regrets but only of those people actually plugged into the Framework. But I don't think that everything is necessarily directly connected to people's regrets as much as just random chance or, as Lightning suggests, just chaos theory or butterfly effect.

Speaking of past characters making an appearance in the Framework, with the appearance of Tripp, I wonder if we'll see Hunter and Bobby as well? I read somewhere that the actor who played Hunter Tweeted or posted something on Instagram from the set of Agents of SHIELD, does this mean that we'll see at least one of them? In the Framework I could imagine that Hunter never joined or re-joined SHIELD and Bobby, already being undercover in Hyrda, remain there and maybe even becoming a true believer. But, if they do bring her back chances are that while she'll probably still be in Hydra they'd probably make her really a part of the Resistance, because that's predictable and Hollywood likes being predictable. What would be cool is if she's running around as an anti-Hydra vigilante, not a part of SHIELD or the Resistance, but an independent going by Mockingbird.
 
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It just makes no friggin' sense.

The antagonist faces opposition in the virtual world SHE CONTROLS, and the opposition could actually succeed and affect her real-world plans.

So just REBOOT THE STUPID THING!
 
I thought you thumped it with your hand and say "Aaaaay!"

I think the whole Framework thing has worn out it's welcome. Tie it up and get on with it! Also don't get a beautiful Aussie actress and make her do an American accent! That is a crime!
 
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