If someone can point out to me where I have slammed TLJ anywhere in this thread apart from my very honest opening statement about Rian Johnson, i would love to see it. Total over reaction. Try checking out some of the comments in my threads that I have let slide without totally throwing all the toys out of the cot. Added to that some other people always seem to get their two bits in as well when its not needed.
You gave a glib response that was the same as what you were saying in other threads. My reaction was basically an eyeroll. Being called on it, you doubled down on it and went with the "no seriously" angle. When I tried to move on, you posted again. Somebody else came in and piggy-backed on you by adding politics to it, which always pushes my buttons. I responded to that-- maybe unfairly lumping you in with him-- and then, as usual when I push back against a conservative blowhard on this site, I get reported and a mod comes in and deletes a bunch of posts, including a couple of yours.
Then you say I'm overreacting-- and yet, instead of moving on, you're still drudging it up. It's like you pathologically just HAVE to derail this thread. If anything you're overreacting to what is basically me calling you out on responding in a redactive glib way to something I put thought into. Yes it annoys me, but I'm hardly crying myself to sleep over it.
In favor of the thread, feel free to PM me if you want to debate it more! I'm really not that upset, it just seems like by calling you on some BS you now want to argue everything I say.
But I totally get it. I'm pretty sure my first decade online was dedicated to talking smack about the PT and trying to ruin it for anybody who enjoyed them. We've all been there.
My main point was that Seth perpetuating this back-and-forth which was based on a single comment of yours is really counterproductive in keeping his original intents on track.
Well... it is the internet... If you can't argue with somebody over something unimportant what's the point!?
Where the current movies in my opinion fall short is that they rely to heavily on some visual cues and the idea that "New is better" When you take a character like Luke who had a great narrative and write him in a different way that's going to change the character.
Let's fight about this!
I agree with respecting character and their arcs-- but I think being afraid of NEW is a bad thing. Change is good. I know as fans we don't like change, but without it, things will get stale quicker than we realize.
Like most bad ideas, midi-whatevers were left on the cutting room floor (or didn't even make it in the script), in the OT.
As for needing something to measure: Vader could sense the Force in Luke between two speeding fighters.
If you wish to keep arguing this point, feel free to do so by yourself.
As much as I love the Rinzler books, there's a bit of revisionist history in them, and they frame Uncle George as infallible. Regardless of when they were invented, Midichlorians were basically a cheat he came up with to tell us that Anakin was special. He tried to key them into this symbiosis theme that was happening in TPM, but it fell sort of flat-- and as we've all heard a million times, it makes The Force seem less mystical and most people dislike that.
Star Wars is a simplistic yet rich coming of age morality tale.
There must be fearsome evil baddies and there must be heroes that grow to become the goodies.
You cannot have the main protagonist of a Star Wars film murdering their way through their opponents if there is any moral ambiguity - that is not appropriate for a kids film.
TLJ tried to add this moral nuance to Star Wars and it doesn't work in a kids space war film - there needs to be theatrical ethical boundaries. Myths have never reflected real life - they are metaphors and learning parables, not social commentary.
You bring up a great topic actually-- WHO should Star Wars be made for. As much as I detest the PT, my son was always a fan equally of the OT and PT. SW has always been a family film-- and a common defense of the PT was that "you grew up, it's not SW's fault."
There's no denying that my favorite SW films are the darker ones. It's also funny to see as my son gets older, he sees the PT as more and more inferior.
Should Star Wars still be for the whole family? Should it be aged up for us fans who grew up on the OT? Should they start shifting the tone of individual movies for different demographics?
Just a stray thought, I know it's really not well regarded, so not sure if it answers how a good Star Wars film is made but Willow captures Star Wars-iness pretty wel without any cues, visuals and etc that would relate to Star Wars.
100%
I'd argue that the Indiana Jones movies do as well. As much as there is an "Amblin" vibe from the era, I think there is a "Lucasfilm" vibe from the same time period, even if it was really just about two franchises.
I do a lot of thinking about TFA, because although I found it highly entertaining (I saw it more times at the theatre than any other SW film), I don't find it all that re-watchable at home...
The rehash argument about TFA is real, there's no skirting that. BUT, what it does do very cleverly, is take those familiar elements, and now weave this tapestry of mystery around them. Who is Rey? Is she a Skywalker? Solo? Neither? What really happened with Ben? Is he even responsible for what we're hearing about him? Did Han literally hold his fate in his hands on the catwalk? Why did Ben lose that saber fight? What's with the Knights of Ren? Who is Snoke? I mean, one could go on and on; the forums were blowing up for months.
TFA wasn't a movie born of the deep creative recesses of JJ's mind, obviously. But it got people thinking, even non-Star Wars people I saw the movie with. The mysteries were interesting and transcended genre. And, IMHO, the characters all totally sold their roles. Rey was a great new female hero figure (IMHO), and that felt fresh and exciting. Ironically, it felt like Star Wars, but the plot could have been infused into any generic fantasy backdrop, and it still would have worked for me.
I think your whole post was apt, but this part in particular gets to the core of how I feel about TFA as well.