Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)
- Thread starter dbuck
- Start date
I saw an edit of TLJ with 45 minutes cut. Worked way better. Fanedits are the future of this film.
Keiko
Sr Member
Wow, it's worse than I thought then. From what I'd heard, I knew it wasn't for me, but this looks just like a Spaceballs scene. I really thought it might be an elaborate joke.
It will stay on my "never see" list.
Joek3rr
Master Member
Don't listen to all these negative nancys TLJ was great. Shocking at first, but I absolutely love it now.
And for that iron scene
https://scifi.stackexchange.com/que...e-in-the-last-jedi-an-homage-to-hardware-warsku
mattycsi
Master Member
It amazes me how little you seem to get it.That's not what I'm saying. If Luke was trying to kill Ben, then he was doing a very lousy job. Let me just stand here with my mouth agape staring at my lightsaber so my nephew wakes up and sees me.
Luke was tempted, (IMO by the Dark Side, but you've heard all that) briefly, to kill his nephew. But saw the error of what he was doing, and stopped. In Kylo's version, Luke was indeed trying to kill him, but was stopped by Kylo.
By all means be tempted, but be tempted somewhere else and get over it. Once you enter a sleeping kids room and draw a weapon on them, you've gone way over the line.
Luke knows that, hence having to deal with shame and consequence, his own words.
He knows he messed up, its the whole reason he's on the island. It's pretty much the backbone of the entire trilogy by way of being Kylo's genesis story and motivation for more power.
Somehow you missed all that!!!
Also this is Luke's 2nd version of events. In my line of work multiple versions of the same story makes me trust neither, coz you lied to me at least once.
sztriki
Sr Member
Except that he doesn't really deal with the consequences in any other way than being ashamed.
mattycsi
Master Member
Exactly, hence, crap movie.
Joek3rr
Master Member
Oh I get it. I'm just saying, and correct me if I'm wrong, but they way you put it, it sounds like Luke went in there with the intention of killing Ben. When that's not what happened, the notion to kill Ben doesnt crop up until he's in the hut.
EDIT
In other words, in a court of law Luke couldn't be accused and tried for premeditated murder.
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kristen jones
Master Member
Nooo... hence, realistic.
How many people EVERY SINGLE DAY live in shame over some mistake they've made, and never seem to find a way past that? That sort of thing happens all of the time.
[But... it's LUKE... he's our HERO...he's better than that]
Is he? Perhaps that was the point in the first place... that despite how strong with The Force he is --or, perhaps BECAUSE of how strong everyone expects him to be with The Force--the fact that he could still have such an impulse in his heart buckled him over with shame far more than it would have someone without SO much to live up to?
Just a thought.
gedmac66
Sr Member
Realistic ? ..., maybe , but it’s a sci-fi fantasy franchise , characters are meant to overcome their shortcomings in an expedited ‘ unrealistic ‘ fashion . Cause you know... , it’s a movie .
I get what you’re saying , but after watching TFA I don’t recall anyone mentioning why exactly Luke went ‘ walkabout ‘ ..., it was all RJ’s concept of the character ( as in reasons why ) that shows up on screen that leaves the bad taste lingering .
Especially for a character that’s sacrificed and shown to be strongly family and friends orientated in previous films , wallowing in self pity even after hearing what’s occurred during his absence , and still refuses to offer assistance of any kind until the very end !?..., that’s unrealistic . IMHO.
Ged
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Joek3rr
Master Member
Interesting you bring up TFA. I recently went through all 8 films. And one thing jumped out at me. Why is it we dId not see Luke's arc in TLJ coming? In hindsight it very obvious where they were heading.
Think of this for a minute. In TFA we are told that Luke disappeared, that is the first line of the crawl. We find that the reason for his disappearance is because a student turned against him. We are also told that his friends and family don't know where he's gone. This is the big one.
Previously Luke had been shown to charge head long, even recklessly to help his friends. And now he's up a disappeared, right when they need him the most. The only way Luke would do that is 1) something very very terrible has happened to him, which is in this case is a triple failure. And 2) if he feels that what he's doing is better for the galaxy in the long run, which in this case is the Jedi religion needs to come to an end. So the Light Side of the Force will find a new hero.
That is, as I see it, the only way you can have Luke seemingly abandon his friends and family.
PantheraGem
Sr Member
Except for that originally that's not where they were heading.
Joek3rr
Master Member
Where then were they heading?
PantheraGem
Sr Member
Nowhere mostly, but the hints are in the opposite direction. Stuff that's been brought up. Holy Jedi spot, full Jedi robes....
Joek3rr
Master Member
This is from Doug Chiang, I'm not sure if he's talking about the Michael Arndt's draft or George's story treatments here. But it's from early on in production, before TFA had a director.
"[Luke] always had this potential dark side within him, being that his father was Darth Vader," explained Lucasfilm executive creative director Doug Chiang of the character's arc in the early days of Episode VII. "So he is really struggling with that. He ended up secluding himself in this Jedi temple on a new planet, and he's just there meditating, reassessing his whole life. Gradually, over the arc of the movie, he rediscovers his vitality and comes back to himself."
EDIT I should have said pre-production not production
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Solo4114
Master Member
I think it's less a question of "realism" vs. "fantasy" and more just a matter of drama. Luke's flaw is something he's demonstrated in the past (as opposed to something that just pops up out of nowhere, like "Luke failed to train Ben because he kept viciously thrashing him with a switch" or whatever), and it's something that basically acts as the pivotal moment that sets the events of the new films in action (at least with respect to the OT characters and Ben himself. It's unclear whether without Ben, the FO would be doing as well as it's doing).
Sure, some people say "But he defeated that side of himself." I think that's open to question, though, and I don't have a problem with Luke having this as his flaw. Basically, if Luke is going to have any flaw -- especially one that sets things in motion -- better that it be his recklessness and fixation with the future, however briefly it may rise up to affect him. From that moment, the rest of the movie flows and makes sense, but if you can't accept that moment, then none of the rest of it works. It's the dramatic fulcrum on which the rest of Luke's arc (and Leia's, and Han's and Chewie's, and Ben/Kylo's) turns.
I don't see it as "unrealistic." Nor do I see it as inappropriate in a fantasy context. Not all characters are required to overcome all of their flaws, especially if the presence of those flaws creates drama that they and other characters must work to resolve.
What I do see it as, though, is a shift in direction from what a lot of fans expected would happen.
I've said this before, but for better or worse, I think a lot of fans just look at Luke as ROTJ-Luke...and that's it. That's who he's supposed to be. He did his growing in the OT, and at the end, he's ROTJ-Luke, the end, now and forever. The old EU novels basically played into this. They didn't really show Luke change, as much as "Here's another set of adventures that ROTJ-Luke got into. Here are some other things that happened to him." But otherwise, Luke remained unchanged. Plus, you know, you've got people re-watching the OT for the past 30-odd years and never seeing anything that would suggest anything other than ROTJ-Luke is what happens.
I think for those folks, it would be fine for ROTJ-Luke to have a bad thing happen and go into hiding, but the bad thing would have to be, like, "Oh no, Mara Jade died" or "He had a Force Vision that his involvement in the coming conflict would destroy the galaxy" or whatever, and that -- once discovered by another character -- he'd be the same kind of stoic, serene character he'd always been. I actually don't think they'd have been happier with Luke turning into some gruff ass-kicker, either, who finds out about the problems in the galaxy, says "Let me get my sabre" and goes off to slice and dice FO Stormtroopers. They'd probably have complained just as much about how Luke was betraying his old character, etc.
The thing is...that doesn't leave you much dramatic room. To the contrary, it's dramatically really shallow. It's more like "Rey shows up. Stuff happens. Luke sacrifices himself. Roll credits." That was basically how most of the EU operated, with characters never changing/growing, and instead just having stuff happen to them. Instead, with TLJ you actually get an exploration of the character and how he evolved over time, which in turn created drama for other characters as well as himself, which propels the story.
I haven't investigated this stuff at all, mostly because I have no real reason to, but I'm curious as to what -- other than Luke's costume and his facial expression -- people look to to prove that the story was dramatically changed? I mean, I gather JJ said that Rian didn't use a lot of his ideas, but other than that what do we really know about the other direction Luke was supposed to go? Anything concrete? What are the sources for that info? I'm being serious here, not trying to be snarky or dismissive. I find this stuff interesting, in the same way that I still want to get a copy of Rinzler's The Star Wars comic.
Joek3rr
Master Member
So as you probably know, I glean a lot of my info from "The Art of" books. And while I'm sure they don't show every piece. Here’s some things of interest. Only 2 show Luke with a lightsaber. Most of them show Luke in various states of depression. One shows Luke with Samurai esque top knot. Another a completely bald Luke, with blue markings on his forehead. And one very interesting one shows Kira holding Luke at lightsaber point.
Solo4114
Master Member
The thing with the art books, though, is that you'd probably already know your major plot points when doing the art. Or, you wouldn't, and it wouldn't matter and you're just giving, like "Ok, gimme a....sad Luke. Now an old samurai Luke. Now, how about....hmm....Luke getting his old sabre back from the hero girl."
I think the kind of info you'd want to look for would be more in interviews or special features from the movies or something.
Joek3rr
Master Member
True that. But since there isn't any of that .........this is the best we've got.
With that said they were given George's story treatments to start their work with. Hence there is some art showing Darth Talon, which George was partial to. Also they were instructed to do guided art, by which they alowed the art department to churn out there own ideas for stuff.
But from the very beginning the concept art shows a depressed Luke, a young female scavenger, a junk world, a Jedi Killer. The basics were all in place from the start.
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