Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (Post-release)

No, he is not paper thin as a character. And no, it is not hard to give depth to a character who does not speak a language you understand. R2-D2 for example, has a lot of soul. Chewie is also a very soulful character. Peter Mayhew instilled something very special into his performances, and while some people haven't really enjoyed the new guy playing Chewie, I think he's done an admirable job.

Conveying character, soul, humor, sadness, fear etc. has almost nothing to do with dialogue.
 
Can you please cite a couple examples of this?
Ok, difficult to do since I don’t have the entire film handy:

Guavian Death Gang scene- the standoff, conversation goes between them, Han, and Kanjiklub, before Han looks to Chewie at 1:23, and Chewie delivers *the* comedic moment of the scene. Again, since Chewie’s exact words can only be guessed at, it’s through expressions and responses like this that we see his humor.
https://youtu.be/FWRT_Tp46kY

Another off-hand is the scene where Finn and Rey meet Han and Chewbacca for the first time. They’re going back and forth about Han being a rebellion general or smuggler, then Finn looks to Chewie and asks, “wasn’t he a war hero?” Chewie responds with what in context seems like a version of “Ehhhh... nah”- with sort of a half shrug, half head-shake at 1:44.
https://youtu.be/H_zY69wiwug

Maybe there are times in the OT where Chewbacca plays the part of comedian, but I can’t think of any. Closest thing is the scene in ANH where he laughs at Han and Han replies “laugh it up, fuzzball,” but in that case he was laughing at what Leia had called Han.

Well, at least I didn’t use Luke as the example... While I think the sequels have done well in adding depth to that character too, I’m aware that that’s an even more hotly contested topic, that my feelings about his portrayal are probably shared by a slim minority, and as such I won’t approach it with a ten foot pole. :lol
 
No, he is not paper thin as a character. And no, it is not hard to give depth to a character who does not speak a language you understand. R2-D2 for example, has a lot of soul. Chewie is also a very soulful character. Peter Mayhew instilled something very special into his performances, and while some people haven't really enjoyed the new guy playing Chewie, I think he's done an admirable job.

Conveying character, soul, humor, sadness, fear etc. has almost nothing to do with dialogue.
I agree that showing emotions like you listed is possible without dialogue. But I would say that character development is more than just showing Chewbacca looking sad in one scene, or growling angrily in another.

Who is Chewie besides being Han’s loyal sidekick? If we use just the films themselves (yes, he has been further fleshed out in various books, comics, etc but we’re talking about films), the word I think of is “loyal,” and I have a hard time coming up with much else. We don’t see much about his motivations, what conflicts he may have, or even if he is “good” versus being a loyal smuggler along for the ride.

My main point is still about the neverending chase after nostalgia.
 
Maybe there are times in the OT where Chewbacca plays the part of comedian, but I can’t think of any. Closest thing is the scene in ANH where he laughs at Han and Han replies “laugh it up, fuzzball,” but in that case he was laughing at what Leia had called Han.

Chewie folding his arms behind his head during the Dejarik game on the Falcon
Chewie shaking his head "NO!" in fear at the thought of the Dianoga (trash monster)
Chewie interacting with C-3PO in the detention cell on Cloud City

And maybe not everyone finds this mildly humorous, but I do:

Chewie's "have you tried hitting it" moment in the service pit on the Falcon during the escape from Cloud City
 
Ok, difficult to do since I don’t have the entire film handy:

Guavian Death Gang scene- the standoff, conversation goes between them, Han, and Kanjiklub, before Han looks to Chewie at 1:23, and Chewie delivers *the* comedic moment of the scene. Again, since Chewie’s exact words can only be guessed at, it’s through expressions and responses like this that we see his humor.
https://youtu.be/FWRT_Tp46kY

Another off-hand is the scene where Finn and Rey meet Han and Chewbacca for the first time. They’re going back and forth about Han being a rebellion general or smuggler, then Finn looks to Chewie and asks, “wasn’t he a war hero?” Chewie responds with what in context seems like a version of “Ehhhh... nah”- with sort of a half shrug, half head-shake at 1:44.
https://youtu.be/H_zY69wiwug

These two examples you've provided portray Chewie completely out of character. I can sorta forgive the second one because Han and Chewie don't appear to be in danger from Rey and Finn. But in the first one, Han and Chewie are in mortal danger, and there's no way Chewie would side with their adversaries who are holding them at blaster point, by nodding in agreement with them, and against Han. (Are you fracking kidding me, JJ, you low-SWIQ hack?!) It removes all tension from the scene--as the audience can go, "Oh look, Chewie's yucking it up with jocularity! So can we! Ha Ha Hahahahaha!", just as in GOTG or some other Marvel piece of millennial-tailored, 'nothing's serious, everything's a joke', crap film.

Maybe there are times in the OT where Chewbacca plays the part of comedian, but I can’t think of any. Closest thing is the scene in ANH where he laughs at Han and Han replies “laugh it up, fuzzball,” but in that case he was laughing at what Leia had called Han.

Why the mighty Chewbacca needs to be a "comedian" to you, is baffling all by itself. But if you if you really cannot recall times in the OT when Chewie has comedic moments, then you really need to re-watch those films. Here are five just off the top of my head:

1) ANH - roaring mischievously at the mouse droid
2) ANH - his line, "That old man's mad."
3) ESB - laughing at Leia's "nerfherder" dis to Han
4) ESB - blurting out "Yes!" when Lando asks if anyone is hungry
5) ESB - laughing hysterically at 3PO when he's put his head on backwards (btw, Peter told me this is his favorite Chewie scene ever)


How you could watch that wonderful scene--number 5 above--which runs the full emotional spectrum, from heartbroken sorrow to playful laughter and joy, and call Chewbacca a "paper thin character", is beyond me.

The Wook
 
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Subtle distinction here, but as I see it: all of the OT examples mentioned are physical comedy where what he’s doing is funny, but it’s not the intent. That’s the difference I’m seeing. Essentially, we’re talking physical comedy (like a video or a person accidentally walking into a pool while on a cellphone), versus a facial expression or response given with the purpose of eliciting a laugh/groan/etc. In both examples I mentioned he’s giving Han a good-natured ribbing, as I see it. While I don’t think he was trying to look funny with the dianoga scene, putting 3PO back together scene, or arms contentedly folded Dejarik scene.

I guess I’m alone in seeing it this way, which is fine.
 
Subtle distinction here, but as I see it: all of the OT examples mentioned are physical comedy where what he’s doing is funny, but it’s not the intent. That’s the difference I’m seeing. Essentially, we’re talking physical comedy (like a video or a person accidentally walking into a pool while on a cellphone), versus a facial expression or response given with the purpose of eliciting a laugh/groan/etc. In both examples I mentioned he’s giving Han a good-natured ribbing, as I see it. While I don’t think he was trying to look funny with the dianoga scene, putting 3PO back together scene, or arms contentedly folded Dejarik scene.

I guess I’m alone in seeing it this way, which is fine.

Omg, okay, you want a "facial expression with the purpose of eliciting a laugh". Here ya go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLqNmMH4hsg

It was the very first example I cited above.

The Wook
 
Sorry- hadn’t seen your most recent as I posted it at the same time, I think.

But yes, I see that the same way. I don’t think Chewie was trying to make the droid laugh, or Han, or Luke. As far as I can tell he was just scaring off the droid. That’s all I’m saying.
 
But yes, I see that the same way. I don’t think Chewie was trying to make the droid laugh, or Han, or Luke. As far as I can tell he was just scaring off the droid. That’s all I’m saying.

Well, you're right about Chewie not wanting to make the droid laugh. lol But of course he was putting the scare into the mouse droid to amuse Han and Luke! Did you watch the whole clip, and his expression at the end?? How happy and pleased he was with his intimidation performance! That mouse droid was harmless, and he knew it. Chewie was playfully putting a scare into it, to get a rise out of his two buddies. C'mon, man! If you can't see that, there's no reaching you.
 
Sorry- hadn’t seen your most recent as I posted it at the same time, I think.

But yes, I see that the same way. I don’t think Chewie was trying to make the droid laugh, or Han, or Luke. As far as I can tell he was just scaring off the droid. That’s all I’m saying.

He scared off the droid and made HIMSELF laugh.
That's why it's funny.
 
Well, you're right about Chewie not wanting to make the droid laugh. lol But of course he was putting the scare into the mouse droid to amuse Han and Luke! Did you watch the whole clip, and his expression at the end?? How happy and pleased he was with his intimidation performance! That mouse droid was harmless, and they all knew it. Chewie was playfully putting a scare into it, to get a rise out of his two buddies. C'mon, man! If you can't see that, there's no reaching you.
Yes, watching again, I see what you mean. Absolutely right. The way he cocks his head to the side as he looks at Luke :lol

Heh, I’m not beyond reaching! I’ll have to go back through the original 3 films with an eye out for this sort of thing. My impressions about the difference between how he’s portrayed in the OT versus the sequels are what they are, but they’re just my impressions. Now I wonder what other examples there may be...

Sorry for dragging things into the weeds- I find the idea of changes in characters between the different films very interesting, but I’m sure not everyone does.

edit: I do wonder somewhat if my perception of his character was influenced by how Chewie seems to be more “human” and nuanced than some of the actual human characters, like Finn. To me, Finn hasn’t really developed into anything from where he was in TFA as an ex-Stormtrooper who ends up in the resistance more or less by accident. I hoped he would be given something interesting to do, possibly with Phasma or with additional backstory, but I was disappointed.
 
Yes, watching again, I see what you mean. Absolutely right. The way he cocks his head to the side as he looks at Luke :lol

Heh, I’m not beyond reaching! I’ll have to go back through the original 3 films with an eye out for this sort of thing. My impressions about the difference between how he’s portrayed in the OT versus the sequels are what they are, but they’re just my impressions. Now I wonder what other examples there may be...

Sorry for dragging things into the weeds- I find the idea of changes in characters between the different films very interesting, but I’m sure not everyone does.

Cool, glad you could see what I was talking bout.

May I ask how old you are?
 
I’m not quiiiiiite 30. Old enough to have some memory of the pre-special edition OT (though only by way of old vhs TV recordings from the 80s, hah), but cursed by having the primary trilogy of my youth be the Prequels.

That’s a factor in my interest in the concept of nostalgia, too. I remember how I felt about Episode 1 as a child, and it’s interesting to see how others remember it.
 
I’m not quiiiiiite 30. Old enough to have some memory of the pre-special edition OT (though only by way of old vhs TV recordings from the 80s, hah), but cursed by having the primary trilogy of my youth be the Prequels.

That’s a factor in my interest in the concept of nostalgia, too. I remember how I felt about Episode 1 as a child, and it’s interesting to see how others remember it.

Gotcha. Well, I knew you were a millennial. You've been programmed by Hollywood (and your peers) to love snarky one-liners, and not care at all that those abrupt quips remove all tension or real sense of peril from films. So I'm not surprised you want Star Wars to be more like GOTG in its humor, and for Chewbacca to deliver smartass quips like Rocket the Raccoon.

But that ain't Star Wars, my friend.

The Wook
 
...cursed by having the primary trilogy of my youth be the Prequels...

Yah, you guys were sold a lemon, man.

I guess I should consider watching ESB sometime :lol

You absolutely should. It's possibly the best movie ever made, and a masterclass in filmmaking.
From script to score to cinematography. It's damn near perfect.
 
Heh, I suppose I have been conditioned to like certain things, yes. But as I haven’t actually seen GOTG I can’t comment on that aspect.

I can say that I prefer the brand of humor in TFA over the fart/poop jokes and cringe-inducing puns (“I’m quite beside myself” and “This is such a drag” spring to mind) of the Prequels, or The Last Jedi’s “your Mom” joke or literal throwaway lightsaber gag that both had me shaking my head in the theater in disbelief.

As for the use of comedy in tense moments, I can understand the argument, but personally see the Han/Chewie moment with the Guavian Death Gang as similar in nature to the OT examples of Han’s line “You’re gonna die here, y’know... convenient” or Leia reuse of the “I love you/I know” as she readies her blaster in ROTJ. An indication that even though the heroes are down, they’re not out, just waiting for the right moment. Keeping calm in those situations, I guess.

Some of the dialogue in TFA, though, I have no defense for. Some of Finn’s one-liners, for example.
 
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