Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm (after 2021)?

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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

I think those were supposed to be starter generators. Considering that they disconnected right after the engines are started.
Eh. I think it was meant to just be...ground crew doing pre launch stuff. Fueling up, loading astromechs in, checking that the instruments are working, etc.

The thing about the fuel issue is that, while it may or may not exist in some sense or other, the concept of a shortage of fuel has never been an issue in Star Wars. I agree that introducing it feels...jarring. I can accept it in the film, but it still feels....I dunno....clunky. Or like someone jammed an octagonal piece into a round hole. It works...kinda. But a circle would be better.

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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Eh. I think it was meant to just be...ground crew doing pre launch stuff. Fueling up, loading astromechs in, checking that the instruments are working, etc.

The thing about the fuel issue is that, while it may or may not exist in some sense or other, the concept of a shortage of fuel has never been an issue in Star Wars. I agree that introducing it feels...jarring. I can accept it in the film, but it still feels....I dunno....clunky. Or like someone jammed an octagonal piece into a round hole. It works...kinda. But a circle would be better.

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Agreed. In fact, was the "limited fuel" thing even necessary from a dramatic standpoint in the first place? The conceit was "they can track us through lightspeed" - so the result (wherever we jump, no matter how often we jump,. the FO will always be there) would be the same even with unlimited jumps and unlimited fuel. What am I forgetting? What did the "we only have fuel for one more jump" add?

M
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Agreed. In fact, was the "limited fuel" thing even necessary from a dramatic standpoint in the first place? The conceit was "they can track us through lightspeed" - so the result (wherever we jump, no matter how often we jump,. the FO will always be there) would be the same even with unlimited jumps and unlimited fuel. What am I forgetting? What did the "we only have fuel for one more jump" add?

M

RJ and KK can't hear you over the sound of subverting your expectations. Plotholes and lazy writing be damned.
 
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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

It added a plot hole.
Where were they going with so little fuel? If. Crait was the destination, why drop out of hyperspace so far from the planet?
Alternatively, If they could make it to a new base with one more hyperspace jump, even with the FO in pursuit, it would have been better than sitting around and being picked off one by one.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Eh. I think it was meant to just be...ground crew doing pre launch stuff. Fueling up, loading astromechs in, checking that the instruments are working, etc.

The thing about the fuel issue is that, while it may or may not exist in some sense or other, the concept of a shortage of fuel has never been an issue in Star Wars. I agree that introducing it feels...jarring. I can accept it in the film, but it still feels....I dunno....clunky. Or like someone jammed an octagonal piece into a round hole. It works...kinda. But a circle would be better.

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I don't see any fuel issues. Look at how blasters behave. In the films they never run out of energy. But in most games they run out or overheat. And fuel has always been around. Bespin/ Cloud City for instance is where tibanna gas was collected. The idea that Resistance has so little resources, it makes me think that they are worse off then the Rebellion was.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

It added a plot hole.
Where were they going with so little fuel? If. Crait was the destination, why drop out of hyperspace so far from the planet?
.

Don't ever think it was stated or implied that Crait was the destination. Crait just happened to be the planet that was close by where the left lightspeed, and the closest place they could land the shuttles (and it coincidentally held a prior rebel base, making the journey there by shuttle offer at least some hope that they would find shelter, which was better than waiting to be shot out of the sky). I think the plan was (like in ESB) to rendezvous in deep space, then go proceed to (or, in TLJ, find) a new base.

M
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Don't ever think it was stated or implied that Crait was the destination. Crait just happened to be the planet that was close by where the left lightspeed, and the closest place they could land the shuttles (and it coincidentally held a prior rebel base, making the journey there by shuttle offer at least some hope that they would find shelter, which was better than waiting to be shot out of the sky). I think the plan was (like in ESB) to rendezvous in deep space, then go proceed to (or, in TLJ, find) a new base.

M

But they did wait to be shot out of the sky and whether they jump or not, the FO are still chasing them down. So, jump somewhere that affords them better ‘shelter’.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

But they did wait to be shot out of the sky and whether they jump or not, the FO are still chasing them down. So, jump somewhere that affords them better ‘shelter’.

I don’t see any reason to be believe there was any place with “better” shelter. Crait was an abandoned Rebel base – but was noticeably bereft of any and all defensive weaponry other than some clunky ships left behind. If they went to another prior base, why would things be any better? Kind of “six of one/half dozen of the other”.

But your point is taken. The bigger point, of course, is that a plot point for one film effectively breaks all of the following films, if I am recalling correctly. The tracker wasn’t shut down (Finn and Rose’s mission failed). Yes, the ship on which the tracker was installed was destroyed, but I’m pretty sure that it was stated in the film that any other ship could just resume the tracking from their own ship if the lead ship’s tracking was disabled. So, at the end of the film, the FO still has a technology that can track ships through lightspeed (no explanation is given as to why they didn’t detect the Falcon at the end and track that too.) So the next time the FO engages with the Resistance, we’re back in the exact same situation. It’s like Star Trek Into Darkness – once you’ve established that Khan’s blood can bring anyone back to life, it’s pretty hard to just disregard that monumental development in later films.

M
 
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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Imagine if this kinda conversation occurred in the Lucasfilm meeting room. We wouldn’t be having it now!

I really think RJ didn't involve or didn't care what the storytelling group had to say. I think he went with the first thing to pop into his perfectly round head. The man is extremely egotistical, he believes his vision is the only vision.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Agreed. In fact, was the "limited fuel" thing even necessary from a dramatic standpoint in the first place? The conceit was "they can track us through lightspeed" - so the result (wherever we jump, no matter how often we jump,. the FO will always be there) would be the same even with unlimited jumps and unlimited fuel. What am I forgetting? What did the "we only have fuel for one more jump" add?

M

To my recollection, it wasn't "fuel enough for one more jump." It was "enough fuel to run at sublight for 18 more hours." It created a ticking clock for Finn and his mission to break the hyperspace tracker. The hyperspace issue was that it didn't matter where they jumped, they'd be tracked anyway. If there was a fuel shortage for the hyperspace jump, too, that only makes it more critical to disable the tracker quickly.

It added a plot hole.
Where were they going with so little fuel? If. Crait was the destination, why drop out of hyperspace so far from the planet?
Alternatively, If they could make it to a new base with one more hyperspace jump, even with the FO in pursuit, it would have been better than sitting around and being picked off one by one.

I don't see this as a "plot hole" but rather as something that...isn't really explained. A plot hole goes against the internally established logic of the story. That's different from an unanswered or unclear question (which is a different kind of problem). It's like saying that it's a "plot hole" that Han gets to Bespin from the Hoth asteroid belt too fast or something. It's not a plot hole. It's just that we have no idea how fast he traveled, how fuel gets used, or how far away Bespin is from Hoth. We have a lot of unanswered questions, but they don't go against the internal logic of the storyline because the storyline hasn't established any internal logic about that stuff.

A plot hole would be more like...it's explicitly stated in a film that Iron Man's suit filters in air from all around him, so it doesn't need a bulky internal air supply...and then he flies into space with it and nobody ever explains how the hell he's breathing while in space when it's already stated he has no internal air supply. But that's different from him breathing fine underwater in Scene A, and then saying "I only have 1 hour of air left in the suit!" later when he's in space in Scene B.

In other words, nothing in the Star Wars films has ever directly contradicted the notion of there being limited fuel, and there was nothing in TLJ that explicitly stated "Ok, we've loaded the Raddus with 3 weeks worth of fuel, which should be enough to get us to the secret base," and then later, out of nowhere, "OH NO!! WE'RE OUT OF FUEL!!" What the hell?! You had 3 weeks worth! Where did it all go?! That would be a plot hole.

I don't see any fuel issues. Look at how blasters behave. In the films they never run out of energy. But in most games they run out or overheat. And fuel has always been around. Bespin/ Cloud City for instance is where tibanna gas was collected. The idea that Resistance has so little resources, it makes me think that they are worse off then the Rebellion was.

Right, I'm saying that, yes, fuel does seem to exist in some sense in the Star Wars universe, but its existence is ultimately meaningless to the story. It never plays a story role at all until TLJ. Nobody ever reloads a blaster in the middle of a firefight, there's never any other mention of running out of fuel (e.g. Han's trip from the asteroid belt outside Hoth to Bespin at presumably sublight speeds), etc. Sometimes ship components are damaged, but there's never any concern about leaking fuel or whathaveyou. Basically, fuel and the concept of limited resources lies in the background of the Star Wars universe, if it exists at all.

I should note that I'm speaking almost entirely about the films, but I suppose this would also include almost every episode of the two Filioni cartoons that I've seen. Fuel or limited supplies of it come more into play in gaming mechanics (e.g., the West End Games RPG, various video games, etc.) and are then done as a balancing mechanism or to introduce some other kind of dramatic tension. In the films, though, fuel appears to be...not an issue for anyone. You have enough, you can fly anywhere, shoot indefinitely, etc. Reloading and refueling basically aren't a thing in the films, so the concept of "Oh no! What if we run out of fuel?!" feels foreign to the setting on film.

TLJ definitely introduces this concept as a means of creating dramatic tension. If the Resistance can't shake off its pursuers in 18 hours one way or another, they will run out of fuel and be blasted out of the sky! Tension!!! But it's a kind of tension that's never been an issue before in the Star Wars cinematic universe, or at least if it has, it hasn't been in this sense.

It's not that it's a plot hole, as I described above, as much as it feels like a contrivance to introduce a ticking clock and manufacture tension. But it's a ticking clock that feels...inauthentic to the universe in which these films exist. Again, it's not that you can't have fuel shortages. But rather that the idea of fuel shortages has never come up and you would have expected it to, given the events of previous films. It just feels jarring, like it would if, for example, Orson Krennic was aiming his blaster at Jyn Erso, who has just fallen on her back, and then suddenly -- click! -- nothing happens and he shouts "Curses! Out of ammunition!" Not a plot hole, but it'd feel fairly contrived, given that literally nobody has ever reloaded or had to cool down an overheating blaster in any Star Wars film ever. Or if a bunch of pinned down rebels started saying "We only have about 4 shots left! What'll we do?!?!" That, too, would feel...inauthentic and contrived, given what we've seen blasters do in every other film. It's not that it's impossible for the situation to exist, but rather that it feels like it's being introduced in an inorganic fashion, solely to create dramatic tension, when other approaches could be taken that would fit with what's been established better.

Don't ever think it was stated or implied that Crait was the destination. Crait just happened to be the planet that was close by where the left lightspeed, and the closest place they could land the shuttles (and it coincidentally held a prior rebel base, making the journey there by shuttle offer at least some hope that they would find shelter, which was better than waiting to be shot out of the sky). I think the plan was (like in ESB) to rendezvous in deep space, then go proceed to (or, in TLJ, find) a new base.

M

Yeah, it's not clear in the film that they're definitely going to Crait. I don't recall them saying one way or the other.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

To my recollection, it wasn't "fuel enough for one more jump." It was "enough fuel to run at sublight for 18 more hours." It created a ticking clock for Finn and his mission to break the hyperspace tracker. The hyperspace issue was that it didn't matter where they jumped, they'd be tracked anyway. If there was a fuel shortage for the hyperspace jump, too, that only makes it more critical to disable the tracker quickly.

Just to confirm - the line from the film is "We have enough fuel for just one jump."

I guess jumps take a significant amount of fuel, such that there would only be enough left post-jump to either refuel form other ships or make it to a planet for refueling. So, the eighteen hour sublight chase exhausted both the amount that would have been expended in the jump plus whatever remained to keep the ships moving "on the other side" until refueled.

M
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Just to confirm - the line from the film is "We have enough fuel for just one jump."

I guess jumps take a significant amount of fuel, such that there would only be enough left post-jump to either refuel form other ships or make it to a planet for refueling. So, the eighteen hour sublight chase exhausted both the amount that would have been expended in the jump plus whatever remained to keep the ships moving "on the other side" until refueled.

M

Right, I'm saying that, yes, fuel does seem to exist in some sense in the Star Wars universe, but its existence is ultimately meaningless to the story. It never plays a story role at all until TLJ. Nobody ever reloads a blaster in the middle of a firefight, there's never any other mention of running out of fuel (e.g. Han's trip from the asteroid belt outside Hoth to Bespin at presumably sublight speeds), etc. Sometimes ship components are damaged, but there's never any concern about leaking fuel or whathaveyou. Basically, fuel and the concept of limited resources lies in the background of the Star Wars universe, if it exists at all.

I should note that I'm speaking almost entirely about the films, but I suppose this would also include almost every episode of the two Filioni cartoons that I've seen. Fuel or limited supplies of it come more into play in gaming mechanics (e.g., the West End Games RPG, various video games, etc.) and are then done as a balancing mechanism or to introduce some other kind of dramatic tension. In the films, though, fuel appears to be...not an issue for anyone. You have enough, you can fly anywhere, shoot indefinitely, etc. Reloading and refueling basically aren't a thing in the films, so the concept of "Oh no! What if we run out of fuel?!" feels foreign to the setting on film.

TLJ definitely introduces this concept as a means of creating dramatic tension. If the Resistance can't shake off its pursuers in 18 hours one way or another, they will run out of fuel and be blasted out of the sky! Tension!!! But it's a kind of tension that's never been an issue before in the Star Wars cinematic universe, or at least if it has, it hasn't been in this sense.

It's not that it's a plot hole, as I described above, as much as it feels like a contrivance to introduce a ticking clock and manufacture tension. But it's a ticking clock that feels...inauthentic to the universe in which these films exist. Again, it's not that you can't have fuel shortages. But rather that the idea of fuel shortages has never come up and you would have expected it to, given the events of previous films. It just feels jarring, like it would if, for example, Orson Krennic was aiming his blaster at Jyn Erso, who has just fallen on her back, and then suddenly -- click! -- nothing happens and he shouts "Curses! Out of ammunition!" Not a plot hole, but it'd feel fairly contrived, given that literally nobody has ever reloaded or had to cool down an overheating blaster in any Star Wars film ever. Or if a bunch of pinned down rebels started saying "We only have about 4 shots left! What'll we do?!?!" That, too, would feel...inauthentic and contrived, given what we've seen blasters do in every other film. It's not that it's impossible for the situation to exist, but rather that it feels like it's being introduced in an inorganic fashion, solely to create dramatic tension, when other approaches could be taken that would fit with what's been established better.

So here's the interesting thing. When they say that they only have enough fuel to make one more jump. What kind of fuel are they talking about? Is it hyperfuel or sublight fuel? Do ships engines use both when jumping to hyperspace or just hyperfuel?
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Eh. I think it was meant to just be...ground crew doing pre launch stuff. Fueling up, loading astromechs in, checking that the instruments are working, etc.

The thing about the fuel issue is that, while it may or may not exist in some sense or other, the concept of a shortage of fuel has never been an issue in Star Wars. I agree that introducing it feels...jarring. I can accept it in the film, but it still feels....I dunno....clunky. Or like someone jammed an octagonal piece into a round hole. It works...kinda. But a circle would be better.

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Funny, I kinda liked the chase scene. Finally, we see that at least some version of thermodynamics - and the limitations that creates - applies in the SW universe. At least, at sub-light speeds. ;-)
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Just to confirm - the line from the film is "We have enough fuel for just one jump."

I guess jumps take a significant amount of fuel, such that there would only be enough left post-jump to either refuel form other ships or make it to a planet for refueling. So, the eighteen hour sublight chase exhausted both the amount that would have been expended in the jump plus whatever remained to keep the ships moving "on the other side" until refueled.

M

Hang on. There's still enough to jump into the Supremacy, though. So I guess they had enough left for that at least. I dunno. they don't explain any of this stuff, and that's why I think it's better to come up with some other mechanism to introduce tension. I like my "engines will overheat and explode" idea.

So here's the interesting thing. When they say that they only have enough fuel to make one more jump. What kind of fuel are they talking about? Is it hyperfuel or sublight fuel? Do ships engines use both when jumping to hyperspace or just hyperfuel?

Again, it isn't explained, and that's part of the problem. You introduce the concept and it immediately raises additional questions that the film doesn't have time to address, and which aren't really relevant to the story itself. Something simple like "If we keep pushing our engines at this rate, they're likely to explode! We can handle maybe another day at this speed, but it could be less. And we have no idea how sustainable this is for the escort ships!" Or whatever.

Funny, I kinda liked the chase scene. Finally, we see that at least some version of thermodynamics - and the limitations that creates - applies in the SW universe. At least, at sub-light speeds. ;-)

See above re: "engines overheat and explode." I'd prefer that rather than "Uh oh...out of gas!"


All the story really needs is a sense of urgency in coming up with a solution to their problem, and maybe a sense of speed visually. A visually static chase against the blackness of space isn't (in my opinion) as interesting as a cat-and-mouse hunt for a ship or a chase where there's a clear sense of speed and still urgency due to the mechanical limitations of the craft. You don't need to introduce something like fuel and raise other questions. Make it all about cooling and be done with it. "We can't jump again! The drives are still cycling. And anyway, they could track us!"
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Again, it isn't explained, and that's part of the problem. You introduce the concept and it immediately raises additional questions that the film doesn't have time to address, and which aren't really relevant to the story itself. Something simple like "If we keep pushing our engines at this rate, they're likely to explode! We can handle maybe another day at this speed, but it could be less. And we have no idea how sustainable this is for the escort ships!" Or whatever.

TPM introduced the idea of a hyperdrive leaking and running out of fuel. Or at least I assume it's fuel, as it's described as leaking and losing power
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

TPM introduced the idea of a hyperdrive leaking and running out of fuel. Or at least I assume it's fuel, as it's described as leaking and losing power

Right, but that's not exactly the same as running out of fuel. "Leaking power" is vague. Is it an exhaustible power supply, or is it an infinite power supply provided it remains self-contained and doesn't leak? We don't know.

No one ran out of gas prior to TLJ, though, and you'd figure that would've come up. It's just...kinda jarring to hear it referenced, and as I said, it raises more questions than it answers.

I don't see it as fatal to TLJ, of course. But it's one of the things I see as a weaker part of the film.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Yes, this is a bit ridiculous. It did make me think of another important question, though:

No one has ever used a restroom in any of the films either, as far as I’m aware. Does this suggest the use of space diapers? Or perhaps evolution beyond the need to “go?”

Glad we’re finally getting to the bottom (no pun intended) of all these important, need-to-know questions in this thread... :lol
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

The introduction of paper books in TLJ struck me as odd. I mean, there's no reason they wouldn't have books...
 
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