General Doctor Whoniverse Discussion

Ok, those tweets just look like the worst of the worst. Most reactions I've seen have been a nonplussed shrug at worse to general enthusiasm. I'm sure there are some tweenyboppers who are pissed that it wasn't Robert Pattinson or whomever, but they'll get over it. Or they won't. Whatever.

As far as the Doctor not being Idris Elba or Chiewtal Ejiefor or Joanna Lumley (really? I mean, she's awesome, but REALLY?), let's get some perspective, ok? Idris Elba is going into a third season of Luther, so you've got scheduling conflicts right there. Chiewetal Ejiefor may have turned the role down, not wanting to be forever viewed as OMGYOURTEHDOCTAR!!!11!!! as opposed to the terrific character actor he already is. Joanna Lumley...well, let's just say that as awesome as she is, she would not fit with anything remotely approaching the current tone of the show.

Lastly, casting for the sake of tokenism is just as bad as denying the role to someone because they're black. You want to cast someone in the role, cast them because, as an actor, they'll bring a really interesting take on the part. Cast them because you know they've got incredible range, capable of doing comedy and drama, both broad and subtle. I actually question how well Idris could've done the comedic parts, come to think of it. But that may just be because I've not seen him do any comedy. But at any rate, you look at someone for the role based on where you want to take the stories and who'll be the best person to help you realize that vision. Not just because they happen to have different genitalia or skin pigmentation. Also, I note a distinct lack of uproar about the new Doctor not being Asian, Hispanic, Pacific Islander, Arabic, Australian Aboriginal, Canadian First Peoples, or a cabbie from the Bronx.

I don't have a problem with people wanting a younger sexy Doctor. What I have a problem with is the notion that a younger, sexy Doctor is the ONLY thing they'll watch. There's so much more that the show can bring than just teenage crushes (oh, with a bit of the fantastical, too).

The saddest part is, if you were to show the majority of those who are complaining about Capaldi a photo of William Hartnell, they probably wouldn't have the first clue who he is, possibly imagining the first Doctor to be a beatlemania type hipster who cruised around in a velvet suit:lol

JBReplicas said:

The saddest part is, if you were to show the majority of those who are complaining about Capaldi a photo of William Hartnell, they probably wouldn't have the first clue who he is, possibly imagining the first Doctor to be a beatlemania type hipster who cruised around in a velvet suit:lol

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The TARDIS looked like a big yellow submarine back then.

JBReplicas said:

The saddest part is, if you were to show the majority of those who are complaining about Capaldi a photo of William Hartnell, they probably wouldn't have the first clue who he is, possibly imagining the first Doctor to be a beatlemania type hipster who cruised around in a velvet suit:lol

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No, that's the Third Doctor. Well, the velvet suit, at least.

Is it too late to start a 'Scot Agenda' hashtag? No wait, there probably is one already!

Great, great actor choice for the Doctor! I'm wondering if they'll go with a House MD style grumpy but witty take with him.
Hey, it made Laurie a sex symbol, so maybe that will placate the fangirls (and guys!).

After the 'fairytale' Doctor & Clara's 'magical' companion, I'd love to see a return to the Hinchcliffe era scares!
I bet Gatiss would enjoy that! Talons of Weng Chiang 2, anyone?

As for age, well he's doing ok for 900+!

Anyone else get a Chris Walken / William Fichtner vibe from this guy? I see him being good at the Tom Baker brooding, but with a nice line in dangerous eye twinkles.

I agree, it's hard to see an actor of Capaldi's standing staying with the show for the long-haul, but a few years would be nice!

Now, what about his costume?

C.

Coz said:

Now, what about his costume?

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Hmm....

I expect a more modern look, perhaps to counteract his age. So...

1. No tie. No neckties, cravats, bow ties, etc. Maybe a scarf if it gets cold out. Bit of an homage to 4. Not multicolored, though.

2. No earth tones, and only a dash of bright color. Greys, dark blues, blacks, that sort of thing. Maybe you contrast that with some white or a bit of color in one spot here or there, like a pocket square or a boutonniere.

3. I expect a jacket that'll be closer to a sport jacket, but moving away from the "English professor" look that Matt had. Sharp, business lines, slimmer cut, deep V. Alternatively....leather jacket a la Indy, but black. Not a bomber or biker jacket, mind you, just a black leather jacket.

4. Modern looking loafers or perhaps oxfords. Black, clean lines, no cap toe. Not a hard square toe, either.

5. Trousers...Clean front. No pleats. Darker colors, again, but lighter than the jacket.



My general sense is that, given Matt's youth when he was cast, they contrasted his look with a far "older" looking costume. This also portrayed the overall sense of the 11th Doctor -- an odd mixture of age/wisdom and youth/exuberance. Sometimes clashing, for that matter.

With Capaldi, I expect they'll go in sort of a polar opposite. He'll be energetic and madcap at times, but also deadly serious, perhaps even grim. To contrast that, his look will be "younger." Slim cut everything, clean lines, OR they'll capitalize on his punk background. Oh, and I DEFINITELY foresee a trip to England c. 1979. "Clara and the Clash." If only...

"As from this moment there's no such thing as free will in the entire universe. There's only my will because I possess the Key to Time."

Arrived yesterday. Still working on the permanent display. Tracer to be built in next couple weeks.

I'll be in my bunk.

I have to say I'm loving the meltdown of tween girls upset they can no longer fantasize about the Doctor. They keep saying they'll never watch again. Good. The show is better off without them watching. The fandom is better off without those worthless ****ing Bieber-ites getting in the way of good science fiction writing instead of high school puppy love drama which has been at the core of the last few seasons.

Kerr Avon said:

I'll be in my bunk.

I have to say I'm loving the meltdown of tween girls upset they can no longer fantasize about the Doctor. They keep saying they'll never watch again. Good. The show is better off without them watching. The fandom is better off without those worthless ****ing Bieber-ites getting in the way of good science fiction writing instead of high school puppy love drama which has been at the core of the last few seasons.

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Now, hang on a second. I'll admit that I'm not a fan of the tween focus of the show, but I do think that there's a place for the OCCASIONAL element of puppy love in the show, or at least hero worship of the Doctor. I think the problem has been that they haven't been willing to do as much with that as they did with, say, Rose, or even Martha. Both had a toll taken from them for their travels with the Doctor. Rose in the form of being locked into another dimension (at least temporarily) and Martha in terms of never being able to measure up to the last girl...which finally led her to simply walk away. I thought those were strong portrayals.

Amy's relationship was less puppy love and more hero worship and finding an almost father figure in the Doctor. And with Clara, any kind of puppy love OR hero worship seems decidedly understated. She's made comments about the Doctor being pervy for being into her, but that's an occasional thing. If anything, I think that Clara's "mystery" got in the way of them developing her character as anything other than someone who can say lines really quickly.

I also don't think it's been the science fiction that's been missing from the show. Rather, it's been narrative focus and coherency. You can get that, though, even in a show that's heavy on the sci-fi and light on the romance (or ersatz romance, as it were).

Admittedly, the fairweather fans who were ONLY in it to drool over Matt Smith or David Tennant will shuffle on to the next Twilight-esque bit of fluff, but I'd bet that there are PLENTY of girls out there who are just shrugging and saying "Let's see what happens next," same as the boys.

brilliant.

Yeah, see? I mean, ok, it's romance and such, but it's exceptionally well done in that case, and still WELL within the confines of some terrific sci-fi in those early seasons.

I think where things have gone a little wobbly have been with Moffat's takeover. He wrote some fantastic scripts in the early years. Some of the best episodes in that run. But I'm not sure he's done as good a job as showrunner. The stuff in the Matt Smith years hasn't been bad, mind you. It's just not as...I dunno...focused, it seems, as the earlier years. It feels very much more all over the place, even as it's had some great moments.

Moffat's just not a good closer. He has terrific ideas, terrible finishes.

I really do think he will tie up the whole exploding Tardis thing before Capaldi steps in.

Full 12th Doctor reveal show here. Mostly fluff until the announcement. The quick Hartnell lapel movie is gold. This guy gets it.

Solo4114 said:

Yeah, see? I mean, ok, it's romance and such, but it's exceptionally well done in that case, and still WELL within the confines of some terrific sci-fi in those early seasons.

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Rose and the Doctor was brilliant. Doctor and Martha was trash. Even after that all of his companions have essentially idolized the Doctor and treated him like he's the most important thing in the universe. Just get back to the Doctor with a travelling companion and enough with the Doctor being the center of everything. The series has sucked for at least the last three seasons. Turn it around already.

Having now watched Capaldi's interview, and ignoring the fact that it was too short (did they really need Liza Tarbuck and the kid from Outnumbered?) I see that he comes across a a lot more humble than any character I've seen him play. So he's as old as Hartnell was (but looks much younger) and is a huge nerd/über-fan. Also he made a point of distancing the character of The Doctor from whatsisname in The Thick of It.
Still, I can understand why some parents are concerned about little kids wanting to check what the "new Doctor" has previously been in, and encountering the sweariness - especially as that seems to be all the tabloids are focusing on.
I'm hoping we'll see some more, in-depth interviews with him soon (not conducted by Zoe Ball, please) so I can get a better judge of Capaldi's take on the character, but I'm not as against him as I was.
Here's a thought: does a Hartnell-aged Doctor mean there'll be a younger male companion to do the running/fighting, like Doc #1 & Ian, or Doc #2 & Jaime? Moffat's proved he can write that sort of thing well with the Cumberbatch/Freeman interplay in Sherlock.

Wouldn't mind a male companion at all. The schtick of just the pretty young female companion gets a little old. Don't pull a Rory or Mickey and make him the tin dog though.

Kerr Avon said:

Rose and the Doctor was brilliant. Doctor and Martha was trash. Even after that all of his companions have essentially idolized the Doctor and treated him like he's the most important thing in the universe. Just get back to the Doctor with a travelling companion and enough with the Doctor being the center of everything. The series has sucked for at least the last three seasons. Turn it around already.

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+1

Plus there's not really been a decent male companion, although I think when Jack briefly travelled with Dr 9 the dynamic worked quite well, people may have liked Rory, I thought he was pretty rubbish, also can we please, please have someone NOT from modern day Earth, please! IMO one of the best pairings of companions was Zoe and Jamie, both from completely different time periods, but it worked so well!

JBReplicas said:

can we please, please have someone NOT from modern day Earth, please! IMO one of the best pairings of companions was Zoe and Jamie, both from completely different time periods, but it worked so well!

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Totally agreed! I was hoping for this when the first images of Clara in Victorian garb showed up, but we got yet another modern-day companion. Jamie and Zoe worked well because she was smarter and tougher than he expected her to be, thus often humorously subverting his out-of-date pre-conceptions - yet he still remained a (albeit naive) gentleman.

Angelus Lupus said:

Having now watched Capaldi's interview, and ignoring the fact that it was too short (did they really need Liza Tarbuck and the kid from Outnumbered?) I see that he comes across a a lot more humble than any character I've seen him play. So he's as old as Hartnell was (but looks much younger) and is a huge nerd/über-fan. Also he made a point of distancing the character of The Doctor from whatsisname in The Thick of It.
Still, I can understand why some parents are concerned about little kids wanting to check what the "new Doctor" has previously been in, and encountering the sweariness - especially as that seems to be all the tabloids are focusing on.
I'm hoping we'll see some more, in-depth interviews with him soon (not conducted by Zoe Ball, please) so I can get a better judge of Capaldi's take on the character, but I'm not as against him as I was.
Here's a thought: does a Hartnell-aged Doctor mean there'll be a younger male companion to do the running/fighting, like Doc #1 & Ian, or Doc #2 & Jaime? Moffat's proved he can write that sort of thing well with the Cumberbatch/Freeman interplay in Sherlock.

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DuneMuadDib said:

Wouldn't mind a male companion at all. The schtick of just the pretty young female companion gets a little old. Don't pull a Rory or Mickey and make him the tin dog though.

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JBReplicas said:

+1

Plus there's not really been a decent male companion, although I think when Jack briefly travelled with Dr 9 the dynamic worked quite well, people may have liked Rory, I thought he was pretty rubbish, also can we please, please have someone NOT from modern day Earth, please! IMO one of the best pairings of companions was Zoe and Jamie, both from completely different time periods, but it worked so well!

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Angelus Lupus said:

Totally agreed! I was hoping for this when the first images of Clara in Victorian garb showed up, but we got yet another modern-day companion. Jamie and Zoe worked well because she was smarter and tougher than he expected her to be, thus often humorously subverting his out-of-date pre-conceptions - yet he still remained a (albeit naive) gentleman.

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I was JUST having this discussion with some other friends.

While I expect Capaldi is far less frail than Hartnell was, I can see where some of the stunt stuff and highly physical stuff would be handed off to someone else. But yeah, there really hasn't been a good male companion since....man....Harry? Maybe? I mean just a regular, human bloke who's not, as aptly put by Mickey (and reiterated by DunMuad'Dib) "the tin dog."

That's why I don't really count Jack. Jack's practically a Time Lord himself. He's immortal, he travels through time, he has a sonic pistol (or had one), he's omnisexual, etc. Jack was great, and I loved the character, but he's not what I'm talking about. As much as teeny bopper girls love having someone they can identify with, it'd be nice to have someone that GUYS can identify with -- and no, the Doctor doesn't count since he's basically a god.

Mickey and Rory always seemed like second stringers and the butt of jokes. It's actually one of the reasons I love Mickey's leaving the Tardis and his later return, plus his ending up with Martha. Once in a while, they got to stand out, but most of the time it was like they were the dad in a cleaning products commercial. "Silly dad. Don't you know that you can't clean the windows with floor solution? Don't worry. Mom will fix it." For all the people decrying the sexism that can come into play with the "man as hero" thing, it's every bit as sexist to write to the old "Men are such useless dolts" trope. For that matter, the female roles haven't been as good as I think they could've been. Amy was interesting and nice to see as a "strong" woman, but I think they played her "strength" poorly. She's abrasive rather than resolute. Alternating between spiky and soft, being overly defensive and then seeing a scared little girl behind the ferocious facade. It was just very...uneven and felt unrealistic. I get that Doctor Who isn't exactly high drama, but I felt like Rose was at least a lot more grounded.


You know, when I think about it....Donna has been the best companion in recent years. As shrieky as she started out, she really turned into someone who felt like a genuine FRIEND to the Doctor, and like a real person. She had her own moral core, she didn't "need" the Doctor even if she loved him as a friend, etc.


I've enjoyed the recent years, but I think something's been missing for a bit. Maybe some decent companions who felt a bit more grounded -- or writing Clara to be less flitty and more "real" -- would help.

The only issue is that, while the dynamic has the potential to be interesting, a companion hailing from a non-current time period would give viewers no one to relate to- posing the same issue as setting the strory on an alien planet with no human presence.

I also hope that no real issue is made of the Doctor's age, apart from a short conversation directly following regeneration- and WHAT DO YOU MEAN the Doctor doesn't count as a relatable character? !