Star Wars: Battlefront 2 (DICE)

I made several arguments about this P2W thing on the battlefront subreddit.

Bottom line:

Once you introduce different gear that players unlock, and which gives an advantage to the player who has more gear, it's functionally no different to include P2W vs. grind2win. Each requires investment of a resource, whether it's time or money. The only reason players are freaking out about this is because they believe "skill" has sod all to do with unlocking things. It's not skill. It's just time. Skill may reduce the amount of time, but you still have to sink the time in to unlock stuff. But the real truth is taht the people most bothered by P2W are people who are suddenly realizing that they may be on the sharp end of the stick, and don't really like that notion.

"But what's to stop someone from starting on day 1 and unlocking everything by dropping $150?" Nothing. Same way there's nothing stopping someone with no job or responsibilities from spending 24 hours solid to unlock everything, or someone who's really really good from doing that in the course of a week, while it takes everyone else a month to do so. Whatever. The bottom line is you don't deserve a ****ing leg up in the game because you're better; being better is your leg up.

At this point, I honestly just don't give a damn whether they do p2w or grind2win like usual. It's irrelevant. I'll spend money and/or time, and I'll get there. I just want to enjoy the game. I wish these games would ditch the stupid progression systems, but they won't, so fine, open up P2W and let those of us with wives, jobs, and kids have a chance at a level playing field if we choose to spend our cash on it.
 
Until they get to a point where you can unlock a super weapon or super armor that I can't access without paying for it, I don't buy it. I'd say I'm a well above average MP FPS player and I've yet to see anyone (in Battlefield 3 or 4 at least) be able to buy something that made me think I couldn't beat them or that I was getting killed because of that. The ONLY time I've seen that was when Xfactor (pro gamer: https://www.youtube.com/user/rivaLxfactor/videos) popped into our game. He's so freaking quick that the minute I saw him and thought "Oh **** Xfactor!" he killed me. :lol I remember seeing people who were clearly not that great and they would go buy battlepacks and have a weapon unlock their rank wouldn't have gotten them, and they were still not great.
 
Until they get to a point where you can unlock a super weapon or super armor that I can't access without paying for it, I don't buy it. I'd say I'm a well above average MP FPS player and I've yet to see anyone (in Battlefield 3 or 4 at least) be able to buy something that made me think I couldn't beat them or that I was getting killed because of that. The ONLY time I've seen that was when Xfactor (pro gamer: https://www.youtube.com/user/rivaLxfactor/videos) popped into our game. He's so freaking quick that the minute I saw him and thought "Oh **** Xfactor!" he killed me. :lol I remember seeing people who were clearly not that great and they would go buy battlepacks and have a weapon unlock their rank wouldn't have gotten them, and they were still not great.

What don't you buy? That the player with additional gear has an advantage over the player who doesn't?
 
Oh, a(nother) petty quibble:

I don't like the PING sound when you get a kill. It sounds like it's something going on in the environment rather than a your-ears-only notification.
 
What don't you buy? That the player with additional gear has an advantage over the player who doesn't?

Yeah because, again using Battlefield as an example, I never saw any piece of gear that gave anyone an advantage over me. If they could unlock something like armor that was twice as effective, then yes that would be pay for play. Until they have the ability to unlock something like that, or a better gun than anything you can normally get, I'm not too worried.
 
Yeah because, again using Battlefield as an example, I never saw any piece of gear that gave anyone an advantage over me. If they could unlock something like armor that was twice as effective, then yes that would be pay for play. Until they have the ability to unlock something like that, or a better gun than anything you can normally get, I'm not too worried.

Ok, so two things.

1. You're kind of putting the rabbit in the hat with only your experiences. You sound like a pretty skilled gamer. In many cases, I would expect that you are going toe to toe with other gamers less skilled than you. Thus, the advantage would be canceled out by your own skill level. BUT, that doesn't mean the advantage doesn't exist in the first place.

2. You have to think of it from two different perspectives. First, the scenario of two equally skilled gamers, and second the scenario of a less skilled gamer going up against a guy who is more skilled with more toys. In either circumstance, the advantage becomes far more pronounced and objectionable.

Here's the thing. In practice, having access to a wider range of gear means that the player can tailor their loadout to the gameplay style they prefer. Just by way of example, some players prefer high-damage, lower ROF weapons, while others prefer lower damage, higher ROF weapons. If you have access to both, you're more likely to do better in the game. If you're stuck with the one you don't like, you won't perform as well. And this says nothing of the various cards that give ACTUAL advantages to people.

In Battlefield 3, one of the early unlocks for planes was -- I kid you not -- countermeasures. Until you got something like 500 points in a plane (which was basically 3-5 kills), you couldn't even pop chaff or flares if someone shot a missile at you. That gave a huge advantage to someone who had already unlocked it. Was it an insurmountable advantage? No, but it was an advantage nonetheless.

Now, at the end of the day, because most of the unlock systems have zero to do with actual skill, everyone will likely unlock everything over time. So, in the long run, the game will level out. But while everyone is going through the process, it creates advantages and disadvantages for players that I find...distasteful for a number of reasons.
 
Ok, so two things.

1. You're kind of putting the rabbit in the hat with only your experiences. You sound like a pretty skilled gamer. In many cases, I would expect that you are going toe to toe with other gamers less skilled than you. Thus, the advantage would be canceled out by your own skill level. BUT, that doesn't mean the advantage doesn't exist in the first place.

2. You have to think of it from two different perspectives. First, the scenario of two equally skilled gamers, and second the scenario of a less skilled gamer going up against a guy who is more skilled with more toys. In either circumstance, the advantage becomes far more pronounced and objectionable.

Here's the thing. In practice, having access to a wider range of gear means that the player can tailor their loadout to the gameplay style they prefer. Just by way of example, some players prefer high-damage, lower ROF weapons, while others prefer lower damage, higher ROF weapons. If you have access to both, you're more likely to do better in the game. If you're stuck with the one you don't like, you won't perform as well. And this says nothing of the various cards that give ACTUAL advantages to people.

In Battlefield 3, one of the early unlocks for planes was -- I kid you not -- countermeasures. Until you got something like 500 points in a plane (which was basically 3-5 kills), you couldn't even pop chaff or flares if someone shot a missile at you. That gave a huge advantage to someone who had already unlocked it. Was it an insurmountable advantage? No, but it was an advantage nonetheless.

Now, at the end of the day, because most of the unlock systems have zero to do with actual skill, everyone will likely unlock everything over time. So, in the long run, the game will level out. But while everyone is going through the process, it creates advantages and disadvantages for players that I find...distasteful for a number of reasons.

Yeah I'm just talking about my experience. Also even if I could have bought a fully unlocked jet loadout at the beginning, it wouldn't stop me from hitting every tree that jumped out in front of me. :lol I had total air superiority when there were even more horrible pilots on there. I usually left the jets unless no one was spawning in them at all. I could fly the helicopter, but there were still way better pilots/gunners so I usually left those.
 
Yeah I'm just talking about my experience. Also even if I could have bought a fully unlocked jet loadout at the beginning, it wouldn't stop me from hitting every tree that jumped out in front of me. :lol I had total air superiority when there were even more horrible pilots on there. I usually left the jets unless no one was spawning in them at all. I could fly the helicopter, but there were still way better pilots/gunners so I usually left those.

Oh, dude, I sucked at flying. But there were two main reasons for that. (1) There are always "those guys" who do nothing but fly in Battlefield (and Battlefront, I found) games. They're insanely good, but mostly because that's all they do. They'll camp out on the tarmac just to get a plane, because they're basically only interested in pnwing from the skies. (2) Because there were "those guys" and because they had all the plane stuff unlocked, I never really had a chance to practice flying. I was always just sorta getting used to things when they'd shoot me down, sometimes because I didn't have any damn countermeasures. But the skill differential was also dramatic. They were way better at it than I was.

Still, all of this goes to highlight the impact that gating content has on a game. The way I see it, the "unlock progression" thing is one of the worst "features" to be added to FPS games in the last 20 years. I've played a ton of FPS games where you had no unlocks at all. Probably my three favorites were old school Team Fortress, old school Return to Castle Wolfenstein, and Red Orchestra: Ost Front. In those games, you just pick your class, spawn in with your gear, and get to work. There's nothing to unlock, no ranks, you just...play.

That's the ideal, to me. If you absolutely have to have ranks and unlocks, tie them to purely cosmetic stuff.
 
I was able to bomb a tank once. Then I got shot down :lol I just looked and I had like 1000 hours of Battlefield 3. That was like 3 hours a night for a year or two I think. So that was literally one tank in that time.

Yeah I would rather unlocks be tied to rank and unlocks be fancy cosmetic stuff. Of course I remember Mountain Dew or some drink had special codes for dog tags and then people in BF3 cried because they couldn't get them (which they could if they had bought some...) so people complain about everything.
 
I was able to bomb a tank once. Then I got shot down :lol I just looked and I had like 1000 hours of Battlefield 3. That was like 3 hours a night for a year or two I think. So that was literally one tank in that time.

Yeah I would rather unlocks be tied to rank and unlocks be fancy cosmetic stuff. Of course I remember Mountain Dew or some drink had special codes for dog tags and then people in BF3 cried because they couldn't get them (which they could if they had bought some...) so people complain about everything.

Yeah, that was for Battlefield: Bad Company 2. I think it was dog tags and uniforms. I think they wound up releasing them for free eventually anyway.
 
At this point, I honestly just don't give a damn whether they do p2w or grind2win like usual. It's irrelevant. I'll spend money and/or time, and I'll get there. I just want to enjoy the game. I wish these games would ditch the stupid progression systems, but they won't, so fine, open up P2W and let those of us with wives, jobs, and kids have a chance at a level playing field if we choose to spend our cash on it.

That's fine and all, but then these kinds of games should be rated 18+ because of the microtransactions.
 
I was able to play this game with EA Access' limited 10 hours. It's truly incredible however I do have a problem with the heroes being locked.
 
I just ordered the BF2 bundle. First game system since the first Halo release. Cant wait until the 17th.
 
The comments on that are brutal.

Granted - the negatives always come out and the pro's are more quiet, but i didn't see a single positive. The guy himself said it's a huge pay to win set up At least when they pulled that idiotic rng crate for gear BS in SWTOR - after a few weeks of complaints, they restored the get it by doing harder content option. But having to pay for RNG crates is way beyond stupid.

Seems as if EA's design methodology is to design a system of gouging and then construct a game around it.
 

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