Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)

That was definitely an aspect I missed. I hope they get the gang back together at the very least. I've always wanted more Poe and Rey screen time. It's one thing I really think they missed in TLJ. I feel like they'd have an interesting dynamic.

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Yeah, I think the end of TLJ suggests that there'll probably be more interaction between the two, although we'll have to see how that goes and whether JJ wants to run with it. (I don't mean romantically. I just mean whether he wants to have them interact more/become friends.)

I'd much rather have a romance between those two than with Kylo

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This is one aspect that I really miss from the sequels overall. I honestly don't want to get into the "usual" pol-correct, SJW, etc debate, not one bit, and I respectfully ask not to go in that direction, but I really do miss a bit of heart and romance from TFA and TLJ. It initially seemed that Finn has a thing for Rey (holding her hand, asking if she has a boyfriend, etc), then it just kinda weaned off. Not sure why and again I don't want to speculate on reasons or politics involved because I don't care for that, I just miss that element. ANH had subtle undertones of Luke having a crush on Leia, tension between Leia and Han, then ESB took it to the next level.
Rose and Finn could have been a good one, just don't think it was set up properly. I just really wish someone would love someone else in this damn galaxy! :lol



Oh, I don't buy for a second that Rey is going to have a romance with Ben. I think, rather, that she understands him on a deeper level than most because of their shared experiences, and because in a weird way, they share the same personal difficulty of navigating their own identities, especially with respect to their relationship with the Force.

Most probably not. I don't think it would have been a bad direction, but it's not the direction that was taken and it's still a good route as it is now.
 
Was watching TLJ last night with my son and our neighbors boy and took notice of when Luke said Ben took some of his students with him. Obviously could reference the Knights of Ren. I think that’s something JJ will pick up for IX. Kylo surrounded by a group of other Force wielding sycophants hunting Rey. I also think Rey may encounter a teenage Broom Boy to join her journey.
 
Was watching TLJ last night with my son and our neighbors boy and took notice of when Luke said Ben took some of his students with him. Obviously could reference the Knights of Ren. I think that’s something JJ will pick up for IX. Kylo surrounded by a group of other Force wielding sycophants hunting Rey. I also think Rey may encounter a teenage Broom Boy to join her journey.

I know JJ has said he wanted to do more of the knights of ren in TFA but didn’t have time or space. He also was trying for a heavy medieval which Disney kinda threw away after TFA.

Which i loves the medieval, ancient way it was going...

But I know if other articles JJ was obsessed with the knights. And wanting them involved in the film..

I am willing to bet 9 features exactly like you said. He calls upon the knights and it’s time to hunt down the last Jedi.... again ;)


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I do too hope there is 3-5yr time gap. Rey has 2 or 3 other force wielders. And it’s a show down...

I sure hope snoke’s guards were not the knights of ren...

Another thing I wouldn’t mind seeing, and thought we were gonna “hear” in TLJ..

I figured we were going to see the knights, we all read the big spoilers of a crashed ship on ach-to with the 5 men all in black.. I figured that the knights were gonna have time. Now 3/4 of the way through the movie and already hearing Luke say “he took a handful of my students” I figured those were the knights..

After seeing kylo take out the guards, I was waiting for kylo to tell rey about his training or something and that how he had to take on all of the knights at once to prove to snoke just how powerful he was

Kinda glad he didn’t, because I would love to finally get to see them...
I love this concept art

f5c498d86fdf91fec903e092f7085a0f.jpg


Red and purple blades...
 
Was watching TLJ last night with my son and our neighbors boy and took notice of when Luke said Ben took some of his students with him. Obviously could reference the Knights of Ren. I think that’s something JJ will pick up for IX. Kylo surrounded by a group of other Force wielding sycophants hunting Rey. I also think Rey may encounter a teenage Broom Boy to join her journey.
You're probably right about both. Not too sure I'd be looking forward to Star Wars version of Short-round.

I sure hope snoke’s guards were not the knights of ren...
Rian flat out said they weren't. He considered making the guards the knights of Ren but decided against coz felt that it would waste their potential having them hacked down there.
 
While I love the concept of the Knights coming back into the story to hunt down Rey and company it would beg the questions as to where and why they were not all involved with the First Order and Smoke during TFA and TLJ.
 
While I love the concept of the Knights coming back into the story to hunt down Rey and company it would beg the questions as to where and why they were not all involved with the First Order and Smoke during TFA and TLJ.

Good question but when you consider TFA and TLJ took place over such a short amount of in universe time it can be explained away.
 
I think you only need a big time-jump with a lot of stuff happening off-screen IF you intend to try to tie up the whole conflict in a single film...which I would suggest is a bad idea. This war can play out over another 3 films easily, and still not get stale. It would also allow for a slower transition away from the more traditional "Empire vs. Rebellion" framework and towards the uncharted territory that lies beyond (and no, I don't count a lot of the old EU as having charted it, since you still had a ton of "New Republic vs. Old Empire + superweapons").
 
That's true. I suppose only a week has passed between the two films.

I doubt they would try to stretch Rey's story into 10, 11 and 12. It was so thinly drawn that there wouldn't be much left to say. If they did 10, 11, and 12 I would suspect that it would be a new set of characters and new plot and she would play a supporting role to the new generation.
 
Oh, I disagree. I think Rey's story could easily stretch out. It wouldn't be driven by mysteries surrounding her origin, of course, but the character could go through all manner of changes in subsequent films. For example, there's a big difference between being the sole survivor, and a leader of others. Likewise, there's a difference between just being a leader and warrior, and being a teacher. Those two roles have different levels of responsibility that place different demands on you. What would it mean for Rey to occupy any of those roles or to transition between them? what kind of struggles would she face? How would she resolve those struggles? What would all of that mean for the state of the galaxy as a whole and/or her relationships with her friends? And of course, all of that ignores other plotlines that could intersect hers.

Like, just randomly thinking here, what if it takes another 2-4 films to defeat the First Order completely, and the Third Republic rises after that. Then what if the Third Republic includes some shady politicians who want to not necessarily destroy the Jedi, but rather to control them and manipulate them into serving their own ends? So, here you have Rey, struggling with her duties as leader and teacher of the new Jedi, but who is -- politically speaking -- a complete naif. So, in addition to navigating her new duties, she also has to contend with this smarmy politician (or group of them) who want to make the new Jedi their little pets.

Or maybe Rey would decide NOT to start some new Jedi academy, and instead to work to encourage Force wielders to chart their own path...which leads to predictably bad consequences. Or who knows. Basically, I think you can take these characters and stick them in interesting situations, and have it be meaningful for them as characters for quite some time.
 
As promising as Rey starting out as a scavenger literally foraging for junk to trade for food, which is what made me empathize with her and like her as a character, she didn't get much development after that.

I defending episode 7 and her Force abilities because they set it up that she almost unaware that she was even using the Force at all. I was banking on them answering just how it was that she was so good at everything in episode 8. Even Luke who was the son of one of the most powerful Force wielders in the galaxy had to be trained in the Jedi ways. Sure he may have had a knack for it but he still had to be taught specifically by Ben and Yoda.

Luke didn't train Rey in episode 8 at all. He told her his disillusioned thoughts but she never learned anything. Plus while Rey being a nobody is fine as a concept, I think just the idea that she is some naturally gifted Force adept and without training of any kind mind you, is able to do the things she does is not interesting at all. I get now why people were referring to her as a Mary Sue. Luke had to learn and even failed sometimes at using his abilities, thus making us grow and understand the character better as an audience because we witnessed him struggle with his impatience. Plus his anger at Vader in ESB and in ROTJ was his character flaw which he ultimately overcame. In this way we see the positive and negative outcomes of the same flaw by having the hero overcome it and the villain undone by it. That makes for powerful storytelling.

Having Rey not know who she is and not know her place in the galaxy isn't compelling enough of an arc without some sort of internal conflict that can be illustrated clearly on screen. It's part of what makes real life so frustrating when you can't articulate into words why you may be struggling with your identity, so how is it interesting when you have a character who is going through the same thing but has absolutely no doubts, fears, hopes, for this incredible power she is able to tap into? She doesn't seem to be tempted to tap into the darkness so there is no conflict there. She may be aware of it, but she's not tempted to use it so it's not the same thing. If the stakes aren't raised on a personal level and we aren't worried that she might not live or be able to save the day then how can we root for her? Plus Yoda tells Luke that she already knows everything she needs to know so there honestly isn't anything Luke or the Jedi Books can really teach her. So there is no conflict there either because there is no teaching that may result in her struggle to learn about her powers. She already knows everything.

She has no connection to any of the characters that are involved in this galactic conflict and she has no reason to stay, in fact all she wants to do is go back to Jakku and wait for her family. She has no reason at all to even be involved with the Resistance other than the script dictates that she needs to be there because she is the lead character. She could have easily delivered BB-8 to the Resistance and left for home. While I know that one could argue that the Force was awakened in her, then how or why doesn't that seem to answer the question of why her? Without SOME answers we as an audience struggle to care about her and what is happening on screen.

So if she doesn't know who she is, she doesn't have any interesting family history, she doesn't seem to have any weakness, she can pilot any ship she needs to, she can speak multiple languages, she can defend herself against more than one opponent, and she is able to use the Force without any effort or temptation to use it for evil, then HOW is she compelling as a character? Surely they could have used any of those pieces to give her some sort of interesting conflict that she could overcome?

The more I really start thinking about The Force Awakens the more it falls apart because it's just thinly drawn and really isn't adding anything to the story. In fact it's weakening the saga as a whole because it killed off or changed Han, Luke and Leia in order to strong arm audiences into liking characters that were not worthy to succeed them in the saga. The Last Jedi was the lynchpin that if handled right, could have made up for Episode 7's flaws but only added more problems to the mix and left little to resolve for episode 9.

Now the idea of drawing the story out with episodes 10, 11, and 12 seems tiring to the point where I'm getting indifferent to it all. 4, 5 and 6 were able to tell the story of Luke and company without it being too much and had they dragged it out I see where it could have gotten cheap. The idea of drawing out Rey's story and given how weak she is as a character seems nigh impossible without doing her further damage, which is a shame because Daisy Ridley is super talented and I really was looking forward to falling in love with her character.

The heads of Disney, Kathleen Kennedy, J. J. Abrams, Lawrence Kasdan, and Rian Johnson didn't need to "kill the past" in order to save the future of Star Wars but the tone this whole thing is taking, it seems as though they are possibly sealing it's fate.
 
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...I get now why people were referring to her as a Mary Sue...

Me, too :unsure.
At first I thought it was just a few loudmouths being sexist jerks, but now that I have a better understanding of the concept of a Mary Sue, I have to agree with them.
Rey hasn't earned a damned thing. I really wanted to love her, but there's nothing to her. There's nothing I can relate to.

Your whole post was excellent, btw. Perfectly said everything I'm too dumb to put into words.
 
As promising as Rey starting out as a scavenger literally foraging for junk to trade for food, which is what made me empathize with her and like her as a character, she didn't get much development after that.

I defending episode 7 and her Force abilities because they set it up that she almost unaware that she was even using the Force at all. I was banking on them answering just how it was that she was so good at everything in episode 8. Even Luke who was the son of one of the most powerful Force wielders in the galaxy had to be trained in the Jedi ways. Sure he may have had a knack for it but he still had to be taught specifically by Ben and Yoda.

Luke didn't train Rey in episode 8 at all. He told her his disillusioned thoughts but she never learned anything. Plus while Rey being a nobody is fine as a concept, I think just the idea that she is some naturally gifted Force adept and without training of any kind mind you, is able to do the things she does is not interesting at all. I get now why people were referring to her as a Mary Sue. Luke had to learn and even failed sometimes at using his abilities, thus making us grow and understand the character better as an audience because we witnessed him struggle with his impatience. Plus his anger at Vader in ESB and in ROTJ was his character flaw which he ultimately overcame. In this way we see the positive and negative outcomes of the same flaw by having the hero overcome it and the villain undone by it. That makes for powerful storytelling.

Having Rey not know who she is and not know her place in the galaxy isn't compelling enough of an arc without some sort of internal conflict that can be illustrated clearly on screen. It's part of what makes real life so frustrating when you can't articulate into words why you may be struggling with your identity, so how is it interesting when you have a character who is going through the same thing but has absolutely no doubts, fears, hopes, for this incredible power she is able to tap into? She doesn't seem to be tempted to tap into the darkness so there is no conflict there. She may be aware of it, but she's not tempted to use it so it's not the same thing. If the stakes aren't raised on a personal level and we aren't worried that she might not live or be able to save the day then how can we root for her? Plus Yoda tells Luke that she already knows everything she needs to know so there honestly isn't anything Luke or the Jedi Books can really teach her. So there is no conflict there either because there is no teaching that may result in her struggle to learn about her powers. She already knows everything.

She has no connection to any of the characters that are involved in this galactic conflict and she has no reason to stay, in fact all she wants to do is go back to Jakku and wait for her family. She has no reason at all to even be involved with the Resistance other than the script dictates that she needs to be there because she is the lead character. She could have easily delivered BB-8 to the Resistance and left for home. While I know that one could argue that the Force was awakened in her, then how or why doesn't that seem to answer the question of why her? Without SOME answers we as an audience struggle to care about her and what is happening on screen.

So if she doesn't know who she is, she doesn't have any interesting family history, she doesn't seem to have any weakness, she can pilot any ship she needs to, she can speak multiple languages, she can defend herself against more than one opponent, and she is able to use the Force without any effort or temptation to use it for evil, then HOW is she compelling as a character? Surely they could have used any of those pieces to give her some sort of interesting conflict that she could overcome?

The more I really start thinking about The Force Awakens the more it falls apart because it's just thinly drawn and really isn't adding anything to the story. In fact it's weakening the saga as a whole because it killed off or changed Han, Luke and Leia in order to strong arm audiences into liking characters that were not worthy to succeed them in the saga. The Last Jedi was the lynchpin that if handled right, could have made up for Episode 7's flaws but only added more problems to the mix and left little to resolve for episode 9.

Now the idea of drawing the story out with episodes 10, 11, and 12 seems tiring to the point where I'm getting indifferent to it all. 4, 5 and 6 were able to tell the story of Luke and company without it being too much and had they dragged it out I see where it could have gotten cheap. The idea of drawing out Rey's story and given how weak she is as a character seems nigh impossible without doing her further damage, which is a shame because Daisy Ridley is super talented and I really was looking forward to falling in love with her character.

The heads of Disney, Kathleen Kennedy, J. J. Abrams, Lawrence Kasdan, and Rian Johnson didn't need to "kill the past" in order to save the future of Star Wars but the tone this whole thing is taking, it seems as though they are possibly sealing it's fate.
c80cf8e360aa1e2242981799e84bb36e.gif
 
As promising as Rey starting out as a scavenger literally foraging for junk to trade for food, which is what made me empathize with her and like her as a character, she didn't get much development after that.

I defending episode 7 and her Force abilities because they set it up that she almost unaware that she was even using the Force at all. I was banking on them answering just how it was that she was so good at everything in episode 8. Even Luke who was the son of one of the most powerful Force wielders in the galaxy had to be trained in the Jedi ways. Sure he may have had a knack for it but he still had to be taught specifically by Ben and Yoda.

Luke didn't train Rey in episode 8 at all. He told her his disillusioned thoughts but she never learned anything. Plus while Rey being a nobody is fine as a concept, I think just the idea that she is some naturally gifted Force adept and without training of any kind mind you, is able to do the things she does is not interesting at all. I get now why people were referring to her as a Mary Sue. Luke had to learn and even failed sometimes at using his abilities, thus making us grow and understand the character better as an audience because we witnessed him struggle with his impatience. Plus his anger at Vader in ESB and in ROTJ was his character flaw which he ultimately overcame. In this way we see the positive and negative outcomes of the same flaw by having the hero overcome it and the villain undone by it. That makes for powerful storytelling.

Having Rey not know who she is and not know her place in the galaxy isn't compelling enough of an arc without some sort of internal conflict that can be illustrated clearly on screen. It's part of what makes real life so frustrating when you can't articulate into words why you may be struggling with your identity, so how is it interesting when you have a character who is going through the same thing but has absolutely no doubts, fears, hopes, for this incredible power she is able to tap into? She doesn't seem to be tempted to tap into the darkness so there is no conflict there. She may be aware of it, but she's not tempted to use it so it's not the same thing. If the stakes aren't raised on a personal level and we aren't worried that she might not live or be able to save the day then how can we root for her? Plus Yoda tells Luke that she already knows everything she needs to know so there honestly isn't anything Luke or the Jedi Books can really teach her. So there is no conflict there either because there is no teaching that may result in her struggle to learn about her powers. She already knows everything.

She has no connection to any of the characters that are involved in this galactic conflict and she has no reason to stay, in fact all she wants to do is go back to Jakku and wait for her family. She has no reason at all to even be involved with the Resistance other than the script dictates that she needs to be there because she is the lead character. She could have easily delivered BB-8 to the Resistance and left for home. While I know that one could argue that the Force was awakened in her, then how or why doesn't that seem to answer the question of why her? Without SOME answers we as an audience struggle to care about her and what is happening on screen.

So if she doesn't know who she is, she doesn't have any interesting family history, she doesn't seem to have any weakness, she can pilot any ship she needs to, she can speak multiple languages, she can defend herself against more than one opponent, and she is able to use the Force without any effort or temptation to use it for evil, then HOW is she compelling as a character? Surely they could have used any of those pieces to give her some sort of interesting conflict that she could overcome?

The more I really start thinking about The Force Awakens the more it falls apart because it's just thinly drawn and really isn't adding anything to the story. In fact it's weakening the saga as a whole because it killed off or changed Han, Luke and Leia in order to strong arm audiences into liking characters that were not worthy to succeed them in the saga. The Last Jedi was the lynchpin that if handled right, could have made up for Episode 7's flaws but only added more problems to the mix and left little to resolve for episode 9.

Now the idea of drawing the story out with episodes 10, 11, and 12 seems tiring to the point where I'm getting indifferent to it all. 4, 5 and 6 were able to tell the story of Luke and company without it being too much and had they dragged it out I see where it could have gotten cheap. The idea of drawing out Rey's story and given how weak she is as a character seems nigh impossible without doing her further damage, which is a shame because Daisy Ridley is super talented and I really was looking forward to falling in love with her character.

The heads of Disney, Kathleen Kennedy, J. J. Abrams, Lawrence Kasdan, and Rian Johnson didn't need to "kill the past" in order to save the future of Star Wars but the tone this whole thing is taking, it seems as though they are possibly sealing it's fate.

That's it, right there folks!
 
This is big news, the first woman and African American to direct second unit on Ep. IX.
 

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First let me say I think psab keel very eloquently summarized my thoughts on Rey and why I personally want to love her character, but just cannot quite get there. Very well put indeed.

I was going to say more, but as I wrote it and thought more about it, I just became frustrated because I am so damn disappointed.
 
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