What struggle? The Disney damage control machine is in overdrive, but the numbers don't lie. We're now 747 million off of TFA... all this for a movie that was a visually stunning, expectation shattering masterpiece that is taking Star Wars into the future. I would bet Blu Ray sales are going to be another disappointment, because who wants to watch this movie at home? It's a decidedly feel-bad story, especially when watched after TFA. Having the last act of Luke Skywalker being a projection takes us straight into Shyamalan territory: even if you found it cool in the first place, it becomes less so with each viewing.
Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)
- Thread starter dbuck
- Start date
Saw these and thought they were kind of funny....
Rogue1Luvr
Active Member
If any movie deserved to be Disney's first 4K release it's Rogue One, not The Last Jedi!
IN DEFENSE OF LUKE'S THINKING OF KILLING BEN!!!!
Alright kids, I saw it again last night.
I actually have turned my opinion a lot on this flick since my first viewing... And last night I was thinking about Luke watching his academy burn and then realized he'd have to work his way through that burning nightmare and find the bodies of his students... at that point I had a realization.
Luke was pretty justified in his wanting to kill Ben reaction...
NOW.... while Luke wasn't necessarily aware of the two examples from the prequels, let's look at the history of "Force Visions of the FUTURE!!!!"
LUKE
They were in pain.
YODA
It is the future you see.
LUKE
Future? Will they die?
Yoda closes his eyes and lowers his head.
YODA
Difficult to see. Always in
motion is the future.
Our introduction to seeing the future with the force... Luke's FIRST vision... was of Han and Leia on Bespin.
He has this vision, Yoda says the future is always in motion, but then uke finds out that Han was tortured, frozen in carbonite, and then spent 3 years working on freeing him. So from this one example, Luke must be pretty solid in his feelings that he can trust his senses.
We then have Anakin in the prequels having visions of his mothers death - which then happened - and a vision of padme dying in child birth... ALSO happened.
Yoda and the Jedi masters felt Anakin's future was too clouded and thus didn't even want to train him.
Rey saw that Kylo would betray Snoke, by just touching him, and wasn't wrong. Kylo saw Rey would turn, and we don't know that she won't at this point.
So when LUKE walks into Kylo's tent, because he sensed evil in him, then looks into his future and saw what Ben would become (which may have even BEEN the temple burning, and ALL HIS STUDENTS DEAD IN FRONT OF HIM - HAN DYING - PLANETS WITH MILLIONS OF SOULS DESTROYED... We only heard screaming)
Why is it so hard to believe that for one second Luke thought of killing him?!?!?!
We're talking millions of deaths. Suffering.
Best friends. Entire planets.
The rise of a new Empire.
The Rebels being snuffed out.
but he turned on his lightsaber and everyone is all "LUKE WOULD NEVER!!!!!!!!!"
Luke didn't do it, and it turns out THAT vision was correct as well... Ben did kill MILLIONS of people. MILLIONS.
From Luke's point of view, what he saw in Ben's future in that moment was to him a CERTAINTY... he has no reason to believe otherwise. He knows about the rise of Sidious, so he has been told of the events, and likely how it was foreseen as well.
Anyway, this may have been covered to death, but I haven't read every page of this thread and it really stood out to me last night.
NEXT POST:
IN DEFENSE OF FIN'S SIDE QUEST!!!
Joking! that was just dumb. How would Maz know where the guy would be gambling a few hours from then... so dumb. Who was shooting the video of her fighting? Why didn't they seem to care that she could be killed at any moment while talking to her.
That whole thing was dumb.
:
Alright kids, I saw it again last night.
I actually have turned my opinion a lot on this flick since my first viewing... And last night I was thinking about Luke watching his academy burn and then realized he'd have to work his way through that burning nightmare and find the bodies of his students... at that point I had a realization.
Luke was pretty justified in his wanting to kill Ben reaction...
NOW.... while Luke wasn't necessarily aware of the two examples from the prequels, let's look at the history of "Force Visions of the FUTURE!!!!"
LUKE
They were in pain.
YODA
It is the future you see.
LUKE
Future? Will they die?
Yoda closes his eyes and lowers his head.
YODA
Difficult to see. Always in
motion is the future.
Our introduction to seeing the future with the force... Luke's FIRST vision... was of Han and Leia on Bespin.
He has this vision, Yoda says the future is always in motion, but then uke finds out that Han was tortured, frozen in carbonite, and then spent 3 years working on freeing him. So from this one example, Luke must be pretty solid in his feelings that he can trust his senses.
We then have Anakin in the prequels having visions of his mothers death - which then happened - and a vision of padme dying in child birth... ALSO happened.
Yoda and the Jedi masters felt Anakin's future was too clouded and thus didn't even want to train him.
Rey saw that Kylo would betray Snoke, by just touching him, and wasn't wrong. Kylo saw Rey would turn, and we don't know that she won't at this point.
So when LUKE walks into Kylo's tent, because he sensed evil in him, then looks into his future and saw what Ben would become (which may have even BEEN the temple burning, and ALL HIS STUDENTS DEAD IN FRONT OF HIM - HAN DYING - PLANETS WITH MILLIONS OF SOULS DESTROYED... We only heard screaming)
Why is it so hard to believe that for one second Luke thought of killing him?!?!?!
We're talking millions of deaths. Suffering.
Best friends. Entire planets.
The rise of a new Empire.
The Rebels being snuffed out.
but he turned on his lightsaber and everyone is all "LUKE WOULD NEVER!!!!!!!!!"
Luke didn't do it, and it turns out THAT vision was correct as well... Ben did kill MILLIONS of people. MILLIONS.
From Luke's point of view, what he saw in Ben's future in that moment was to him a CERTAINTY... he has no reason to believe otherwise. He knows about the rise of Sidious, so he has been told of the events, and likely how it was foreseen as well.
Anyway, this may have been covered to death, but I haven't read every page of this thread and it really stood out to me last night.
NEXT POST:
IN DEFENSE OF FIN'S SIDE QUEST!!!
Joking! that was just dumb. How would Maz know where the guy would be gambling a few hours from then... so dumb. Who was shooting the video of her fighting? Why didn't they seem to care that she could be killed at any moment while talking to her.
That whole thing was dumb.
:
Here's the problem: Disney and the Story Group have laid out that Snoke was turning Ben to the dark side while still in Leia's womb. How do we know that? Leia can feel it. So we're supposed to believe that admitted force-novice Leia could feel Snoke's influence but Jedi Master Luke Skywalker couldn't, until 17-18 years on? Sorry, but it's just awful writing and it makes no sense at all. Think of the years going by, and keep counting up to 14...15...16... and so on. Luke's the blindest Jedi of them all apparently.
Or maybe it's a testament to how sneaky and devious Snoke is. But still he leaves a working lightsaber on his armrest and doesn't hold it tight in place with his mind? TLJ made an idiot out of everyone.
Or maybe it's a testament to how sneaky and devious Snoke is. But still he leaves a working lightsaber on his armrest and doesn't hold it tight in place with his mind? TLJ made an idiot out of everyone.
Yeah that was an unforgivable piece of nonsense (the saber turning on snoke), but I don't care about the Leia thing cuz I shouldn't need to read a novel to get why something happened in a movie.
So as far as I was concerned, going into TLJ, Snoke had come to Ben somehow during his training while Luke had no idea... and when he realized how far he was gone, acted accordingly.
annanake
Sr Member
I'm gonna tell you what I keep hearing from the younglings
PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN !
The more I saw The Phantom Menace, the more I hated it.
The more I see the Last Jedi, the more I like it.
I am not easily manipulated... I don't buy into hype.... I don't understand what's happening.
As a career editor, the movie hurts my soul on so many levels... but there is truly some great stuff in there that I can't help but love the more I see it.
But then I'm also taking bathroom and drink refill breaks every time the casino planet is on screen.
I dunno.
The more I see the Last Jedi, the more I like it.
I am not easily manipulated... I don't buy into hype.... I don't understand what's happening.
As a career editor, the movie hurts my soul on so many levels... but there is truly some great stuff in there that I can't help but love the more I see it.
But then I'm also taking bathroom and drink refill breaks every time the casino planet is on screen.
I dunno.
Nitz146
Well-Known Member
Luke's first future vision did come true, but overall I don't think that means all force future visions come true or else Yoda would not have said "Always in motion is the future". By the time that Luke has that vision of Ben he would have also known that what he saw was future in motion and that it is not set yet. After 30 years as a Jedi thats something he should know in jedi training 101.
Lets say Luke did have that one second where he thought about killing Ben. I still don't see him going as far as actually igniting his lightsaber about to kill his own nephew about a future that might not even be true. Doesn't add up.
gedmac66
Sr Member
Mark Hamill - the guy who’s ‘ lived ‘ the character for so long , seemed to agree with that statement ( publicly ) originally ! . RJ ‘s version and portrayal ( as written by him ) of Luke was severely skewed .
It wasn’t the character Mr Hamill , nor we ‘ dim - witted , whinging ‘ fans ( apparently ) grew to know and respect .
:cheers
laszlo
Sr Member
I know this thread is just going round and round chasing it's own tail but.....
Having seen a bit of TFA the other day (and I'm by no means a JJ fan or a TFA celebrant) that film is a narrative, world building, characterisation masterpiece compared to TLJ...and the first order actually seems threatening.
TLJ seems like it was built around a bunch of visual moments and subversions that RJ wanted in the movie - rather than those moments coming from the purpose of the story and characters.
Even the editing and colour timing is leaps ahead. I'm so depressed that I'm so happy to have JJ back
Did TLJ suffer from a case of "Orange & Teal"? I can't quite remember.
Having seen a bit of TFA the other day (and I'm by no means a JJ fan or a TFA celebrant) that film is a narrative, world building, characterisation masterpiece compared to TLJ...and the first order actually seems threatening.
TLJ seems like it was built around a bunch of visual moments and subversions that RJ wanted in the movie - rather than those moments coming from the purpose of the story and characters.
Even the editing and colour timing is leaps ahead. I'm so depressed that I'm so happy to have JJ back
Did TLJ suffer from a case of "Orange & Teal"? I can't quite remember.
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JLeezy23
Sr Member
Ok so, first time seeing it tonight. Too many things happened that should've happened in the 3rd act/Ep IX. A dozen resistance people left? 4 ships shouldnt have been a problem to the First Order, unless Luke was involved, which he wasnt until the very end. Half a handful of resistance ships had Kylo and Hux nervous? 5 days after destroying most of the republic? But ok. Its Star Wars, they included some nostalgia here and there, Luke mentioned the PT for 1 line, giving us continuity, and idk what happens next. I have no expectations. I wasnt a "theorizer" fan, i wasnt wondering who Rey belonged to. I went in blind, and i left just as lost as i left VII.... if not more. I dont see why RJ got his own trilogy. TLJ wasn't as interesting as TFA. I didnt see TFA as a clone of ANH. I honestly cant classify TLJ as a homerun, and i cant say its a 3 strikes = out either. It was..... different i suppose
cayman shen
Master Member
After catching up on the last few pages, it's clear everyone who really liked TLJ (and there are many of us) has abandoned the thread to let the caustic hyperbole reign. I feel almost warm and fuzzy seeing a balanced take on it.
gedmac66
Sr Member
annanake
Sr Member
Yeah this is more like a bunt with no one on base ......
The ball was hit right to the pitcher, Who bobbles it, then over throws to first letting the runner advance to second when he should be out.
Officially its a double but everyone who seen it is confused by how it happened !
jhazard
Sr Member
Well thought out, I can see your point, but I can't agree.
Also, Ben didn't kill millions of people. HUX killed millions of people, and Snoke gave Hux the go-ahead ("go, prepare the weapon"). Hux have the speech, which ended with the word "fire!". Kylo was busy looking for Han...
(Similar with Vader, people attribute the destruction of Alderaan to him, yet Tarkin was the military leader who gave the order. Vader wasn't even fond of the death star, but this is beside the point).
The reason I can't agree, in spite of your reasoning: I see the quote from Yoda to Luke "Always in motion is the future" as a lesson to mean you can't change what hasn't happened, it's futile. Don't try.
Add to that, there's a lot of story we're not filled in on; Leia suspected issues with Ben, hence the training with Luke. The darkness in Ben wasn't a surprise. There must have been countless opportunities for Luke to assess Ben, and consider options.
Ultimately I can see Luke snapping in the heat of the moment, but the audience isn't given enough information to have it make sense. And then, after that, to abandon the galaxy and let this known dark force user to run rampant, (and he surely must have known of and felt Snoke) and just give in? This guy who's call to action was watching his Aunt and Uncles smoldering corpses?
Theres just not enough story/information in the movie to back up his decisions, imo. These are things so out of character, that they required some exposition in order to have any gravity. That's the issues I have with that stuff...
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greedo737
Active Member
Agreed 100%
this is pretty much why this flick bugs me. I think on paper it was great... I think Rian blew it in the final cut.
i don’t think mark was told to shuttup by Disney, I think Rian explained a Luke and story that truly sounded great. It’s why JJ read the script and was jealous.
I think JJ would have handled the whole thing better... there’s a great movie in here, but the only thing I can say worked 100% for me is Adam Driver.
Side track - for fun, read the script (or quotes) every line is read exactly as you would expect... unless it’s a Ben Solo line. Damn he nailed every read.
MrSouthpaw
Sr Member
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol2 was the first Disney 4K disc release.
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