Solo: A Star Wars Story (Post-release)
- Thread starter Vivek
- Start date
They say a picture is worth a thousand words. You have provided a picture that effectively describes how I feel about the ST movies. Thank you!
And I'll tell you another phenomenon that's real: multiple viewings of TLJ in an attempt to avoid the horrific conclusion that SW had just been bent over a barrel, and to work through various stages of grief as you realized it had.
Seriously, I left my first viewing a bit numb, wondering..."What was that?..." I knew I didn't feel good about what I'd just seen but I wondered if with a second viewing I would decide that the choices were correct. Maybe my unease was simply with the fact that Luke was gone, and he was the last of the original three to leave the story in some way.
On second viewing, I began to be convinced that this movie wasn't just unsettling, it was BAD. Nonsensical in many ways. I watched it for the third (and last time) at a theater, and after this viewing I was genuinely angry at what Rian had done to SW.
So when KK and the powers that be point to the somewhat-strong box office numbers as indicators of TLJ's success, I don't think they realize that many genuine fans actually watched it multiple times as they went through several stages of grief over the travesty put on screen as a SW movie. We simply didn't want to accept after only one viewing how bad the story actually was. And I know I am not alone in doing this.
That's a great point. I could not drag myself to see it twice. But I think you're right.
The Wook
You are not alone. I felt the same way. I saw it twice because I felt just like you descibed. The first viewing was like a punch in the stomach. It felt like I had the wind knocked out of me. The movie didn't feel like a middle movie in a trilogy. If felt like an ending. I should have been walking out of the theater with some excitement towards what would be happening next. Instead I didn't care.
Felt that after the Force awakens, I won't go to watch another Star Wars film at the cinema full stop.
These new films have ruined it for me. The only one that did a good job was R1 new characters none of the old, and a story that fit what was there before and it had Stormtroopers not clones or versions of etc. and dog fights in space not over the top stupid stuff like jamming guns and cartwheels or batting ties into asteroids in the Falcon arrgh.
These new films have ruined it for me. The only one that did a good job was R1 new characters none of the old, and a story that fit what was there before and it had Stormtroopers not clones or versions of etc. and dog fights in space not over the top stupid stuff like jamming guns and cartwheels or batting ties into asteroids in the Falcon arrgh.
Jaitea
Master Member
....Nope.....I saw it once & will never see it again....I know what I watched & it wasn't Star Wars
J
Well Solo won one more viewing than TLJ for me and I will happily buy the bluray.
But I've never spent this little on the franchise. Both TFA and R1 got significant after viewing spending (mostly blu rays ,books, soundtracks, a few ANOVOS helmets) but since TLJ?
Nothing.
Even the Prequels got me to at least invest in the "Art of" books and later, the DVDs when they were cheap enough.
But not even Solo, even though I enjoyed it , has restarted the urge to expand and explore beyond the movie.
Considering my generation has some of the highest discretionary spends ever available it just shows how far away Disney/Lucasfilm is from understanding how fandom works in terms of a long term investment.
Marvel/ Pixar don' t seem to have that problem. The "Incredibles 2" opening just proves that.
But I've never spent this little on the franchise. Both TFA and R1 got significant after viewing spending (mostly blu rays ,books, soundtracks, a few ANOVOS helmets) but since TLJ?
Nothing.
Even the Prequels got me to at least invest in the "Art of" books and later, the DVDs when they were cheap enough.
But not even Solo, even though I enjoyed it , has restarted the urge to expand and explore beyond the movie.
Considering my generation has some of the highest discretionary spends ever available it just shows how far away Disney/Lucasfilm is from understanding how fandom works in terms of a long term investment.
Marvel/ Pixar don' t seem to have that problem. The "Incredibles 2" opening just proves that.
Zuiun
Sr Member
It's interesting how everyone who hates TLJ believes they are the majority. The box office, the merchandising sales, and even (if you want to look at microcosms) the very poll about the film here decidedly show a much more balanced, if not favorable opinion.
It seems the only thing the naysayers are is loud. Very loud.
Jaitea
Master Member
It's interesting how everyone who hates TLJ believes they are the majority. The box office, the merchandising sales, and even (if you want to look at microcosms) the very poll about the film here decidedly show a much more balanced, if not favorable opinion.
It seems the only thing the naysayers are is loud. Very loud.
We shall see
J
But that begs the question how much ancillary Marvel or Pixar merchandise are you actively buying in order for this comparison to work.
Jaitea
Master Member
....for me, personally apart from the Bandai Perfect Grade Falcon,....& Sculpting a Galaxy by Lorne Peterson....0% merchandise this year for Star Wars,....I had bought BD's, soundtracks .& Art of books for TFA & R1,..no interest anymore in Solo or TLJ.......I have almost all Marvel BD's except for Dr Strange & Cap'n America, The Winter Soldier,.
My Daughter bought a few Pop vinyl figures around Christmas,....Chewie & the Porg,....Rey & Leia.....but now thinks Star Wars is rubbish.....(she does fancy the Chewie with goggles from the Han Solo film though)......From Christmas to now she has got a load of Groot, Baby Groot & Teenage Groot figures & most of the Infinity War Characters
My son has TFA on BD....& also most of the marvel films
It's just not on our radar anymore
J
I know the box office for episode IX is going to be missing at least four ticket sales that TLJ received. After TLJ, I couldn't give a rat's posterior what happens in 9.
JoMamma_Smurf
Master Member
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Bryan, much like Jaitea my Marvel spend has now over taken SW since TLJ . I have the entire MCU universe from Iron Man right up to date (with the exception of "Black Panther" which I will get this week as its just been released here)
I've also most of the soundtracks , nearly all the "Art of" books (which are nearly all beautiful and brilliant to look at, the concept work often outstrips SW in scope and imagination ) and then other various graphic novels and a few collectables. With the exception of the Anovos helmets pre TLJ its pretty much replaced SW in my spending affections, sad to say.
Admittedly I cannot remember the last time I spent any money on a Pixar product (its was probably going to see "The Incredibles"). My point in raising it was just how brilliant the market release date was (Fathers day weekend) and how fourteen years between movies DOESN'T seem to have affected the BO performance which, at $182 million, was probably more in line with the expectations for Solo (which was released on the supposed "magical SW 25th May" and three weeks before it ).
And " Inc 2" has avery high RT score currently sitting at 94/88. Which ,considering it seems slightly more focused on a super hero family is enlightning ( I haven't seen it yet ,it doesn't get a UK release until mid July) as the general feedback is that its great to have everybody back but the overall story and villian are a bit weaker yet its still alot of fun for the family ).
Which is much the same way I felt about "Solo". It was a pretty good but not great SW movie. And yet the BO, now at $340 million , is being trumpeted loudly as a bomb. If it had ony cost $100 million or so to make then it would be a disappointment but still likely profitable.
It just seems to me that superhero movies have displaced older franchises like SW in the general cinema going population by a fair margin and that interest in SW ,just as you have pointed out about the OT and its characters, is fading .
And this IS the essential problem. The OT heroes and villians were icons of their time and became legends for decades within the entertainment industry. Then LF allowed their myths to be destroyed in ways that obliterated that cult status amoungst fans and general public.Worse still they have utterly failed to replace them with anybody else that captured the public imagination in the same way.I mean who do we really have?
Kylo Ren?
In no way is he anywhere near as popular and iconic as Vader ever was. Then has Poe replaced Solo? Not even close. They made him look an idiot in the TLJ and people don't like to identify with that. Finn??? He's portrayed as the cowardly lion and a fool who needs a Dorothy, sorry that's a Rose, to help him find his courage . Compare him to the respect Marvel shows to just about every character, male or female in "Black Panther" and its not even a contest, its an easy knockout. What kid wants to be Finn? How many kids wanted to be Luke or Han or even Vader?
And then we get to the other roles.And here I'll just point out whats missing in the MCU .
Criticism of its female leads.
I have yet to pick up any extensive complaints about the way Marvel approaches its female characters. Whats more noticable there appears to be a total lack of antipathy towards them. Peggy Carter, Black Widow, Hela,Frigga, Valkyrie, Scarlet Witch, Nebula, Gamora, Mantis, Nakia,Ayo, Sharon Carter,Maria Hill, Hope Van Dyne are all well liked and respected within the comic fandom and believe me the general perception of that fanbase being as strongly biased is just as powerful as that of hardcore SW fans. But that toxic divide just isn't there , because in nearly all the cases they get their introductions right. And thats just the MCU movies. Within the TV series the range and number of female characters is even bigger.
I'll admit I am waiting to see how "Captain Marvel" is received though. Shes always been a minor and fairly unpopular character , and Marvel is taking a risk by making her so central to the next set of films. If they get her origin story wrong then the fan backlash is potentially likely to be every bit as strong as it is for Rey and they are going to have to handle it carefully and well.
But thats it really. Who cares about SW? Well it seems not as many as there used to be because the remaining characters are just so flat and uninteresting.
I know the Wook gets a fair amount of derision cast on his SWIQ but elements of it are actually quite accurate.
The new stories are mainly based on concepts and story beats lifted from the originals, and they are weaker and less interesting for that imitation . The old characters within them behave in ways many previous fans don't like, understand and respect and replaced them simply with new ones for whom exactly the same can be said ,but what is WORSE they, in turn, have markedly failed to widely engage with the general audiences away from that old fanbase and don't have anyway near the same impact the originals had.
Anyway, I need a break from all this analysis, its summer and there are better things to do.
I've also most of the soundtracks , nearly all the "Art of" books (which are nearly all beautiful and brilliant to look at, the concept work often outstrips SW in scope and imagination ) and then other various graphic novels and a few collectables. With the exception of the Anovos helmets pre TLJ its pretty much replaced SW in my spending affections, sad to say.
Admittedly I cannot remember the last time I spent any money on a Pixar product (its was probably going to see "The Incredibles"). My point in raising it was just how brilliant the market release date was (Fathers day weekend) and how fourteen years between movies DOESN'T seem to have affected the BO performance which, at $182 million, was probably more in line with the expectations for Solo (which was released on the supposed "magical SW 25th May" and three weeks before it ).
And " Inc 2" has avery high RT score currently sitting at 94/88. Which ,considering it seems slightly more focused on a super hero family is enlightning ( I haven't seen it yet ,it doesn't get a UK release until mid July) as the general feedback is that its great to have everybody back but the overall story and villian are a bit weaker yet its still alot of fun for the family ).
Which is much the same way I felt about "Solo". It was a pretty good but not great SW movie. And yet the BO, now at $340 million , is being trumpeted loudly as a bomb. If it had ony cost $100 million or so to make then it would be a disappointment but still likely profitable.
It just seems to me that superhero movies have displaced older franchises like SW in the general cinema going population by a fair margin and that interest in SW ,just as you have pointed out about the OT and its characters, is fading .
And this IS the essential problem. The OT heroes and villians were icons of their time and became legends for decades within the entertainment industry. Then LF allowed their myths to be destroyed in ways that obliterated that cult status amoungst fans and general public.Worse still they have utterly failed to replace them with anybody else that captured the public imagination in the same way.I mean who do we really have?
Kylo Ren?
In no way is he anywhere near as popular and iconic as Vader ever was. Then has Poe replaced Solo? Not even close. They made him look an idiot in the TLJ and people don't like to identify with that. Finn??? He's portrayed as the cowardly lion and a fool who needs a Dorothy, sorry that's a Rose, to help him find his courage . Compare him to the respect Marvel shows to just about every character, male or female in "Black Panther" and its not even a contest, its an easy knockout. What kid wants to be Finn? How many kids wanted to be Luke or Han or even Vader?
And then we get to the other roles.And here I'll just point out whats missing in the MCU .
Criticism of its female leads.
I have yet to pick up any extensive complaints about the way Marvel approaches its female characters. Whats more noticable there appears to be a total lack of antipathy towards them. Peggy Carter, Black Widow, Hela,Frigga, Valkyrie, Scarlet Witch, Nebula, Gamora, Mantis, Nakia,Ayo, Sharon Carter,Maria Hill, Hope Van Dyne are all well liked and respected within the comic fandom and believe me the general perception of that fanbase being as strongly biased is just as powerful as that of hardcore SW fans. But that toxic divide just isn't there , because in nearly all the cases they get their introductions right. And thats just the MCU movies. Within the TV series the range and number of female characters is even bigger.
I'll admit I am waiting to see how "Captain Marvel" is received though. Shes always been a minor and fairly unpopular character , and Marvel is taking a risk by making her so central to the next set of films. If they get her origin story wrong then the fan backlash is potentially likely to be every bit as strong as it is for Rey and they are going to have to handle it carefully and well.
But thats it really. Who cares about SW? Well it seems not as many as there used to be because the remaining characters are just so flat and uninteresting.
I know the Wook gets a fair amount of derision cast on his SWIQ but elements of it are actually quite accurate.
The new stories are mainly based on concepts and story beats lifted from the originals, and they are weaker and less interesting for that imitation . The old characters within them behave in ways many previous fans don't like, understand and respect and replaced them simply with new ones for whom exactly the same can be said ,but what is WORSE they, in turn, have markedly failed to widely engage with the general audiences away from that old fanbase and don't have anyway near the same impact the originals had.
Anyway, I need a break from all this analysis, its summer and there are better things to do.
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Egon Spengler
Master Member
I'm sorry guys, I saw the film again. It's actually still pretty good. Second time.
gedmac66
Sr Member
That’s cool @Egon Spengler , glad to hear that you ( and others ) are still finding it enjoyable .
I haven’t seen it myself as yet , having other priorities film - wise , but hope to eventually .
Just wanted to add that I don’t believe anyone need apologise for liking/ enjoying ( within reason ) anything , nor for disliking/ loathing same said thing .
:cheersGed
Too Much Garlic
Master Member
One thing I learned from Solo is that fuel enough to support an entire fleet can be carried in a few cases that a Wookie can carry, so why did Finn and Rose not simply fly off for more fuel in Last Jedi instead of that stupid Canto Bites-its-ass scene for a stupid codebreaker?
When you say, "within reason", you mean there are films that *should* be apologized for liking. Such as, Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen. And, The Last Jedi.
Right??
The Wook
robn1
Master Member
Oh, snap! :lol
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