Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (Post-release)

All I'm disagreeing with is the statement that "no one was invested in the characters". I don't care who said it. Common criticism or not, its not a fact. People who make sweeping generalizations about very subjective things, to me, are not people I care to listen to.
 
JoeG said:
All I'm disagreeing with is the statement that "no one was invested in the characters". I don't care who said it. Common criticism or not, its not a fact. People who make sweeping generalizations about very subjective things, to me, are not people I care to listen to.
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Is it a fact that many people found the starkiller base to be derivative? That was a major complaint. Even if you personally don't agree with them, you can't deny that it was a common complaint.

And we are here to discuss films. Not to be offended by people who don't share your opinion


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astroboy said:
Is it a fact that many people found the starkiller base to be derivative? That was a major complaint. Even if you personally don't agree with them, you can't deny that it was a common complaint.

And we are here to discuss films. Not to be offended by people who don't share your opinion


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I have no idea if its a fact that many people found the starkiller base to be derivative. I've never done a scientific study. My personal opinion on any film was never brought into this discussion. I'm not sure where you're getting the whole offended by peoples opinion thing.
 
I like them both and have issues with both. I was "invested in" R1's characters -- I was less in vested in their deaths. The only ones that felt organic to the story were K-2SO, Chirrut, and Cassian. The others felt shoehorned in -- to me -- by creative laziness ("Well, we never see them in the OT so they must all have died." Weak.), rather than the demands of the story. In some other sequence of events and circumstances I could see a total-party-kill being right and organic. But not the bad-video-game-level that was the climax of the film we got.

Yes, my opinion is subjective. I also feel it is informed by a lifetime of consuming stories, studying the crafting thereof, and being able to tell some of the generalities and specifics that separate "good" ones from "bad".

--Jonah
 
astroboy said:
I'm a proud prequel apologist and I can say that one suggestion I have for more memorable characters would be to replace the blind guy and his thug friend with Kanan and Zeb from rebels.
World building, ya know?
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Sometimes I think the latest incarnations of Star Wars suffer from too much "world building". For example, I didn't need to see cameo appearances by Dr. Evazan and Ponda Baba in Rogue One, or C-3PO and R2-D2 for that matter. Likewise, I didn't need to see 3PO, R2, Princess Leia, Darth Vader, Lando Calrissian, and/or Ahsoka Tano in Star Wars Rebels. I already know I'm watching a Star Wars program; I don't need to be beat over the head with it.

And while I'm at it, I thought "the blind guy and his thug friend", a.k.a. Chirrut Îmwe and Baze Malbus, were the most interesting characters in Rogue One, particularly Chirrut Îmwe. I wouldn't mind seeing them in their own standalone movie.
 
Zombie_61 said:
Sometimes I think the latest incarnations of Star Wars suffer from too much "world building". For example, I didn't need to see cameo appearances by Dr. Evazan and Ponda Baba in Rogue One, or C-3PO and R2-D2 for that matter. Likewise, I didn't need to see 3PO, R2, Princess Leia, Darth Vader, Lando Calrissian, and/or Ahsoka Tano in Star Wars Rebels. I already know I'm watching a Star Wars program; I don't need to be beat over the head with it.
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Vader makes at least a little sense to me. He's supposed to be built up to be a big-scary by the time we get to ANH. We need more than his last scenes in ROTS to establish that. I, too, would have preferred we had only seen Captain Antilles enter the bridge of the Tantive IV* and a brief glimpse of the back of Leia's hooded head before cutting away. Threepio and Artoo kinda have to be there, as they're the throughline for the entire saga (and why I wish Threepio had been already finished and in Amidala's servcice in TPM/AOTC), but their inclusion needed to have been handled better. I liked Ponda and Evasan, but 1) would have preferred if Cassian had bumped into them on the asteroid trading post and 2) why didn't you get Ponda's arm right, you bastards?!?!... *ahem*

[*Side note: Oh, my god the Twitter meltdown when Pablo confirmed the correct pronunciation for this ship's name. I am astonished so many people 1) didn't know and 2) refuse to accept that it's "TAN-tih-vee".]

--Jonah
 
Zombie_61 said:
Sometimes I think the latest incarnations of Star Wars suffer from too much "world building". For example, I didn't need to see cameo appearances by Dr. Evazan and Ponda Baba in Rogue One, or C-3PO and R2-D2 for that matter. Likewise, I didn't need to see 3PO, R2, Princess Leia, Darth Vader, Lando Calrissian, and/or Ahsoka Tano in Star Wars Rebels. I already know I'm watching a Star Wars program; I don't need to be beat over the head with it.

And while I'm at it, I thought "the blind guy and his thug friend", a.k.a. Chirrut Îmwe and Baze Malbus, were the most interesting characters in Rogue One, particularly Chirrut Îmwe. I wouldn't mind seeing them in their own standalone movie.
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I saw R1 as a SW meets the dirty dozen kind of movie. R1 seemed to spend roughly the same amount of time with character development at the beginning as DD did so it kind of worked for me.

I agree with Zombie_61 the films do suffer from world building. In TFA it was great to see the falcon again..... did we really need to see the bloody training ball thing? Like we know what the ship is and who's been in it, unnecessary referencing I reckon. These films are too derivative of the OT in parts.

I can't believe I'm typing this but even though I'm not much of a fan of the PT at least Lucas tried to give us something visually unique.

Oh well see what TLJ's like soon!
 
Reelo said:
The scores of both R1 and TFA have their moments of brilliance. But Giacchino is no Williams, and Williams is, well, nowhere near as good anymore as he was in the 70s/80s. Compare the score of TFA to *any* of the scores of the OT, and you see what I mean. Maybe the score for TLJ will change this, IF he manages to establish clear leitmotifs from the seeds he planted with TFA.

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I blame that way more on the choice of orchestra, Disney's union staff is no London Symphony Orchestra, that's for sure.
 
Zombie_61 said:
Sometimes I think the latest incarnations of Star Wars suffer from too much "world building". For example, I didn't need to see cameo appearances by Dr. Evazan and Ponda Baba in Rogue One, or C-3PO and R2-D2 for that matter. Likewise, I didn't need to see 3PO, R2, Princess Leia, Darth Vader, Lando Calrissian, and/or Ahsoka Tano in Star Wars Rebels. I already know I'm watching a Star Wars program; I don't need to be beat over the head with it.

And while I'm at it, I thought "the blind guy and his thug friend", a.k.a. Chirrut Îmwe and Baze Malbus, were the most interesting characters in Rogue One, particularly Chirrut Îmwe. I wouldn't mind seeing them in their own standalone movie.
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Well, I think there's world building and then there's badly done fan service. You are totally right about those cameo's.

There is no reason lando should have ever been in rebels.

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The Terminator said:
I blame that way more on the choice of orchestra, Disney's union staff is no London Symphony Orchestra, that's for sure.
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Well, the London Symphony Orchestra is no London Symphony Orchestra anymore, either. And, for a soundtrack that's so horn-centric, you would have thought the L.A. studio group would have played on Paxmans rather than Conns. Quite different instruments.
NOW, who's nit picking? [emoji6]

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G W Zipper said:
Well, the London Symphony Orchestra is no London Symphony Orchestra anymore, either. And, for a soundtrack that's so horn-centric, you would have thought the L.A. studio group would have played on Paxmans rather than Conns. Quite different instruments.
NOW, who's nit picking? [emoji6]

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Oooh, a connoisseur, are we? [emoji4]

I must admit I don't know much about specifics of classical instruments, but what I do know is that I love Vienna Horns. But outside of the VPO I don't know if anyone uses them...

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G W Zipper said:
Well, the London Symphony Orchestra is no London Symphony Orchestra anymore, either. And, for a soundtrack that's so horn-centric, you would have thought the L.A. studio group would have played on Paxmans rather than Conns. Quite different instruments.
NOW, who's nit picking? [emoji6]

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Dude, I work in a classical music program at a university and I don't even know the difference.

bravo!
 
I'm pretty new to the movie forums, but I'd like to throw my .02 in regarding R1.

Someone earlier alluded to the Chirrut/Baze characters needing to have been replaced; I would have loved for the main group to have just been Jyn, Cassian, Bodhi and K-2SO. These were all potentially great characters that could have been fleshed out more if it wasn't for the seeming need to have this diverse ensemble vibe. The exchange between Cassian and Jyn after the Eadu incident was pretty powerful IMO. I would have liked more of that. Keep it small and intimate, you know.

I'd never looked forward to a villain like I did Krennic. Loved his look, his seeming swagger. We got a whiney b*tch. Disappointed. Though, I expected a Thrawn-type of character, so I blame myself for the over-hype.

The score was obnoxious and at times even cheesy. Expecting this darker, even maybe documentary-type feel, I cringed when I heard "Rebel fanfare" when we first see Rebel Headquarters. It was like something out of a video game. I felt like I was supposed to cheer.

I thought Diego Luna was fantastic. Loved K-2SO. Disappointed that the TIE Striker was just a bunch of toy hype; could have been something really cool with wing manipulation in atmospheric flight.

This is tough to watch multiple times; sadly, I attribute most of that to the Chirrut/Baze stuff. Tarkin is distracting as well. I didn't hate R1 as much as it seems, but my bar was just (probably unfairly) super high.
 
Reelo said:
Oooh, a connoisseur, are we? [emoji4]

I must admit I don't know much about specifics of classical instruments, but what I do know is that I love Vienna Horns. But outside of the VPO I don't know if anyone uses them...

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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What the heck, this Rogue One thread is so old, it can handle being derailed for a bit...

I can say this - technically, the musicians on the TFA soundtrack are hands down more proficient than the LSO as heard on the prequel recordings, especially the brass section. They were on par with the OT soundtrack LSO.

The TFA soundtrack works well with the film, but it's not as sweeping as the originals. Still, very good. I think it's JW's worst SW track, but still better than just about anybody else's work.

I actually liked the R1 soundtrack as a work in itself, but not in the accompaniment of the film. The biggest problem with the R1 soundtrack is that it failed to establish the way JW did so many years ago.

There thing about Paxman horn versus Conns - the Conn is a larger throated horn than the Paxman, this having a darker sound. There Paxman, blown at volume, has an edge to it, almost (but not quite) having a stopped horn sound. Point being, they're different.



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astroboy said:
Dude, I work in a classical music program at a university and I don't even know the difference.

bravo!
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I used to be an engineer designing, among other things, French horns.

Go listen to the soundtracks again with this in mind - you'll definitely hear it.

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G W Zipper said:
I used to be an engineer designing, among other things, French horns.

Go listen to the soundtracks again with this in mind - you'll definitely hear it.

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Oh can hear it. From the moment TFA began, the horns were thin. I just didn't know it had anything to do with what they were playing. I thought it was the room and the skill

That coupled with the first lines said by max con sydow were not the best ways to get me in your court

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