Yeah your right, that stupid Giant Talking Teddybear with a massive flea collar is so goofy... Star Wars is DEAD im not watching these ever again, WHAT were they thinking? are they making these films for KIDS now too!? :eek
Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release)
- Thread starter rodneyfaile
- Start date
Yeah your right, that stupid Giant Talking Teddybear with a massive flea collar is so goofy... Star Wars is DEAD im not watching these ever again, WHAT were they thinking? are they making these films for KIDS now too!? :eek
mkstewartesq
Sr Member
I for one think it looks awesome. Set aside the super-cute Porg itself, that image suggests (purely speculation) to me that something very bad has happened on the Porg homeworld (Ahch-To) (based on the red coming from outside of the cockpit) and a Porg that has gotten on-board while the group is escaping is looking on sadly. I like the pathos it suggests.
(If, in the actual film, it turns out that the Falcon is parked at an interstellar drive-in theater and Chewie and the Porg are catching a flick, I'll adjust my opinion accordingly.)
M
matty matt
Sr Member
It's a single image with no context. I'll wait until the movie comes out to decide if I have a problem with it. Until then, I'm giving all this stuff the benefit of the doubt.
JD
Master Member
Wasn't the entire point of Return of the Jedi that Luke becomes a Jedi... well, that and the "redemption" of Anakin? His anger issue is something he had to conquer to become a Jedi - in the end, he rejected that anger and that's the moment Luke truly becomes a Jedi. His training and all that can be looked at a few different ways - his time on Dagobah was longer than it looked, he continued training between ESB/RotJ... etc.
Part of me wants to see the return of 'Hero Luke' with lightsaber swinging - kicking ass and taking names. But, another part wants to see a nuanced Luke - and I think we're going to see something more along those lines: he's been broken and we need to see our hero rebuilt and brought back to his former glory. Well maybe not 'former glory' - but, we need to see some flashes of it.
No matter what we do end up seeing, it will be somewhat cliched; but, none more that sending Luke to the darkside.
mkstewartesq
Sr Member
Agreed. I do not expect to see "dark" (as that term is understood in SW) or even "dark-er". "Dispirited and broken" are entirely different things than "dark", and that's what I expect we'll see. Luke became a Jedi (of sorts) at the end of ROTJ - but his faith (and perhaps his understanding of the limits of his knowledge and abilities) were tested to the breaking point with the attack on his academy.
Given Hamill's comments re: Luke's belief in Kylo as the chosen one, that seems entirely in line that Luke's comment in the trailer re: "It's time for the Jedi to end", which just reflects his belief that the Jedi tendency to embrace a perceived "chosen one" - only to have it backfire and plunge the galaxy into darkness - reveals a fundamental flaw in (and his own loss of faith in) the Jedi way of thinking and doing things. That's a loss of faith (but not a fall to the Dark Side) that he and Rey will need to overcome to get Luke back in the game.
M
JD
Master Member
From Rian Johnson:
"The very first step in the writing of [The Last Jedi] was figuring out why [Luke is] on [Ahch-To]. We know that he is not a coward. He’s not just hiding because he’s scared. But we also know that he must know his friends are in danger. He must know the galaxy needs him. And he’s sitting on this island in the middle of nowhere. There had to be an answer. It had to be something where Luke Skywalker believes he’s doing the right thing."
"The very first step in the writing of [The Last Jedi] was figuring out why [Luke is] on [Ahch-To]. We know that he is not a coward. He’s not just hiding because he’s scared. But we also know that he must know his friends are in danger. He must know the galaxy needs him. And he’s sitting on this island in the middle of nowhere. There had to be an answer. It had to be something where Luke Skywalker believes he’s doing the right thing."
mkstewartesq
Sr Member
Query. while I am here talking to myself:
Again, re: Hamill's comments about Luke's belief in Kylo as the chosen one: it doesn't make sense to me that Luke would even go down that line of thought. Wasn't the whole point of EPs I-VI that Anakin was the chosen one - prophesied for thousands of years until he appeared - and that his redemption restored balance to the Force? (Or, alternatively, depending on your read, that Luke himself was the chosen one who eventually brought balance after the jedi mis-read the prophecy about Anakin.) It just seems odd to me that, less than 30 years later, Luke would be latching on to a "new" chosen one. Unless this ties into the old rumors about "reincarnation" of the chosen one and Luke read about that in his "secret old Jedi books" . . .
Yeah I read that comment and raised an eye brow. I'm not sure if that was a direct quote of Rian or Anthony Brez making an off the cuff remark.
Cobalt60
Active Member
qui-gon revealed the secret to "balance" by his one-line-mantra (which was rewarded by The Force Itself, via Immortality) -- he is the only character to unravel the secret:
"Follow the Will of the Force"
it's very simple, really:
- a Jedi who uses the force to enact the will of the force, brings balance to the force.
- a jedi who uses the force "against its will" brings imbalance to the force.
the Jedi Order (as an 'institution') was sworn to uphold the "will of the Senate" at all costs.
they forsook the will of the force.
- even when the senate was shown to be corrupt and dysfunctional, as a deliberate plot point in TPM
(in those "senate scenes" which nobody wants to watch, hence, nobody acknowledges this plot point as "relevant")
- even when the senate was shown to be 'ruled by a sith lord' in AOTC.
(it didn't matter -- the Jedi were sworn to follow the 'bat****-crazy' senate body -- regardless of who's in charge).
they forsook the Will of the Force (the will of their god). as a matter of Policy -- it was a Union of Church and State.
the jedi were sworn to uphold the "will of the people", via the Politics of Fear.
(in the end, the SIth need only control the GOVERNMENT, to control the Jedi Order -- to control both sides of the force).
and when qui-gon suggested they "follow the will of the force" -- (rather than those Evil Politicians) -- they physically rolled their eyes at him. <--THIS caused imbalance in the force. the existence of the Jedi Order.
the role of the "Jedi Knight" is to interpret the Will of the Force, and act it out in the macroscopic world.
this brings "balance" to the universe. and it leads to Immortality (like religion).
the existence of the "Jedi Order" caused imbalance in the force, because, this institution PREVENTED the individual jedi knights (like qui-gon) from following the will of the force.
as we saw in TPM -- they rolled their eyes at the very thought of it -- they thought qui-gon was a dirty hippie for suggesting it.
they followed the "will of the senate", at all costs, even the cost of Galactic War.
when every force user in the galaxy, was actively using the force AGAINST the will of the force (both Jedi and Sith alike),
then the Force responded in Self-Defence. it spawned the Chosen One. to WIPE OUT all force users who were forsaking the WIll of the Force. (jedi and sith alike).
this included the "Jedi Order"; the Sith Order; even the younglings in the temple -- ALL of them -- they were ALL taught to ignore the Will of the Force.
in the end, the only one left alive is Luke: and Luke has been taught a different lesson:
"let go your conscious self" and "let the force guide your actions" (aka: follow the will of the force) <-- this is the key to everything.
when ALL force users in the galaxy are now following the will of the force again , this marks the "Return of the Jedi" and brings balance to the force.
balance of the force was achieved by SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.
"Follow the Will of the Force"
it's very simple, really:
- a Jedi who uses the force to enact the will of the force, brings balance to the force.
- a jedi who uses the force "against its will" brings imbalance to the force.
the Jedi Order (as an 'institution') was sworn to uphold the "will of the Senate" at all costs.
they forsook the will of the force.
- even when the senate was shown to be corrupt and dysfunctional, as a deliberate plot point in TPM
(in those "senate scenes" which nobody wants to watch, hence, nobody acknowledges this plot point as "relevant")
- even when the senate was shown to be 'ruled by a sith lord' in AOTC.
(it didn't matter -- the Jedi were sworn to follow the 'bat****-crazy' senate body -- regardless of who's in charge).
they forsook the Will of the Force (the will of their god). as a matter of Policy -- it was a Union of Church and State.
the jedi were sworn to uphold the "will of the people", via the Politics of Fear.
(in the end, the SIth need only control the GOVERNMENT, to control the Jedi Order -- to control both sides of the force).
and when qui-gon suggested they "follow the will of the force" -- (rather than those Evil Politicians) -- they physically rolled their eyes at him. <--THIS caused imbalance in the force. the existence of the Jedi Order.
the role of the "Jedi Knight" is to interpret the Will of the Force, and act it out in the macroscopic world.
this brings "balance" to the universe. and it leads to Immortality (like religion).
the existence of the "Jedi Order" caused imbalance in the force, because, this institution PREVENTED the individual jedi knights (like qui-gon) from following the will of the force.
as we saw in TPM -- they rolled their eyes at the very thought of it -- they thought qui-gon was a dirty hippie for suggesting it.
they followed the "will of the senate", at all costs, even the cost of Galactic War.
when every force user in the galaxy, was actively using the force AGAINST the will of the force (both Jedi and Sith alike),
then the Force responded in Self-Defence. it spawned the Chosen One. to WIPE OUT all force users who were forsaking the WIll of the Force. (jedi and sith alike).
this included the "Jedi Order"; the Sith Order; even the younglings in the temple -- ALL of them -- they were ALL taught to ignore the Will of the Force.
in the end, the only one left alive is Luke: and Luke has been taught a different lesson:
"let go your conscious self" and "let the force guide your actions" (aka: follow the will of the force) <-- this is the key to everything.
when ALL force users in the galaxy are now following the will of the force again , this marks the "Return of the Jedi" and brings balance to the force.
balance of the force was achieved by SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.
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Cobalt60
Active Member
GL based his Jedi Knights on old samurai movies.
the entire PT is a "what-if?" riff, on the fate of the Samurai.
(as seen, most recently, in "The Last Samurai" with Tom Cruise).
the samurai were warrior-monks who went wround the countryside and imposed their OWN moral authority upon the populace.
they derived their Moral Authority from their OWN thousand-year-old Code. THEY themselves, decided what was "right" and what was "Wrong".
the end of the Last Samurai film sees the samurai given a choice:
to surrender their Moral Authority to The State -- to become government agents; or face oblivion.
they chose oblivion, rather then give up their own autonomy.
the PT asks "what if..?"
what if the samurai HAD surrendered their Moral Authority, and become Government Lapdogs?
how would this ultimately destroy them, from within?
--> when we join Our Heroes, a thousand generations after the fact, they are going on Secret Missions for Chancellor Valorrum.
they do whatever the Senate asks of them. they ignore the Will of the Force. they have NO moral authority, over their OWN use of "the force".
they are ALREADY government lapdogs.
^^ problem : the conflict which leads to the Jedi's downfall , occurs a thousand generations ago.
at this point, it's all over but the crying. the jedi have ALREADY forsaken the will of the force.
they have ALREADY formed the "Union of Church and State" which will ultimately destroy them. (the one which is reviled at the end of Last Samurai).
at this point in the tale , the audience has tuned in, JUST to watch the thing hit the fan. :unsure
-===============-
Luke's Mistake, going into TFA: he tried to rebuild the Jedi Order.
he tried to form a NEW "Union of Church and State" with his sister, and her Government.
he began training a NEW generation of "government lapdogs", to forsake the will of the force, all over again.
--> presumeably, the force reacted again. in Self Defence.
and now Kylo has killed the "younglings in the temple", just like last time.
(is he the new "chosen one"? like anakin was, the last time? come to force a "Separation of Church and State", all over again, by wiping out the Jedi Order?)
(Luke thinks so). :confused
the entire PT is a "what-if?" riff, on the fate of the Samurai.
(as seen, most recently, in "The Last Samurai" with Tom Cruise).
the samurai were warrior-monks who went wround the countryside and imposed their OWN moral authority upon the populace.
they derived their Moral Authority from their OWN thousand-year-old Code. THEY themselves, decided what was "right" and what was "Wrong".
the end of the Last Samurai film sees the samurai given a choice:
to surrender their Moral Authority to The State -- to become government agents; or face oblivion.
they chose oblivion, rather then give up their own autonomy.
the PT asks "what if..?"
what if the samurai HAD surrendered their Moral Authority, and become Government Lapdogs?
how would this ultimately destroy them, from within?
--> when we join Our Heroes, a thousand generations after the fact, they are going on Secret Missions for Chancellor Valorrum.
they do whatever the Senate asks of them. they ignore the Will of the Force. they have NO moral authority, over their OWN use of "the force".
they are ALREADY government lapdogs.
^^ problem : the conflict which leads to the Jedi's downfall , occurs a thousand generations ago.
at this point, it's all over but the crying. the jedi have ALREADY forsaken the will of the force.
they have ALREADY formed the "Union of Church and State" which will ultimately destroy them. (the one which is reviled at the end of Last Samurai).
at this point in the tale , the audience has tuned in, JUST to watch the thing hit the fan. :unsure
-===============-
Luke's Mistake, going into TFA: he tried to rebuild the Jedi Order.
he tried to form a NEW "Union of Church and State" with his sister, and her Government.
he began training a NEW generation of "government lapdogs", to forsake the will of the force, all over again.
--> presumeably, the force reacted again. in Self Defence.
and now Kylo has killed the "younglings in the temple", just like last time.
(is he the new "chosen one"? like anakin was, the last time? come to force a "Separation of Church and State", all over again, by wiping out the Jedi Order?)
(Luke thinks so). :confused
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laszlo
Sr Member
From what i've heard from a friend close to the production this isn't far off the truth!!!
Bones_68
Sr Member
Why, Wook, do I detect a glimmer of hope in your voice?
And what happened then?
Well, in Whoville they say,
that The Wooks tiny heart
grew three sizes that day!
I agree, it's worth giving Johnson the benefit of the doubt. After watching "Looper," "The Brothers Bloom" and his three episodes of "Breaking Bad," the biggest take away is that he seems genuinely interested in putting characters through their paces in unexpected ways. Whether you love or hate his work, the guy is not a cookie-cutter writer/director. That's why I'm psyched to see what he does with a SW movie — it has a real chance to be something unique. And, if I'm wrong, may I choke on roast Porg for Christmas dinner.
Bones_68
Sr Member
Axlotl, sounds like your midichlorian count might be dangerously low. Please report to the nearest Jedi infirmary right away for a booster shot. And then go straight home for a marathon viewing of the Prequels with your eyelids peeled back like Alex from A Clockwork Orange.
Axlotl
Master Member
:lol :lol
JD
Master Member
Add "grey" and/or "grey Jedi" to that list.
(Who cites a Heroes reference in 2017? :lol ).
I think it has to be different than the dark side. I keep hearing "Grey Jedi" and that's not really what I'm thinking.
I want him dark... but not necessarily "Oh I'm a sith lord now"
But he needs to be lost... loss of faith or hope. He isn't evil, but he's "done". Maybe a little unhinged. Angry. But not full on, "oh I'd kill my own father" dark side.
I guess in a way, he'd be Han Solo in ANH... not a good guy, not a bad guy. "Doesn't care about anything or anybody".
I'm just talking out my ass, but what I'm trying to say is NOT on the dark side, but not a hero.
There's nothing interesting about Luke being a hero in this movie.
And didn't Kirshner or someone want Luke to go full on Darth evil at the very end of Jedi... so that possibility did cross their minds at a point - the groundwork was laid (force choking - threats of violence on Jabba)
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