YenChih Lin
Master Member
too shiny if they are making the Voy the same as TNG… pass.
QMX TNG comm badge pre-order
- Thread starter NakedMoleRat
- Start date
Nice to hear them doing the Voyager badge too 
Totally. They look like something from "Pimp my Commbadge" :facepalm
Totally. They look like something from "Pimp my Commbadge" :facepalm
eclipse74569
Well-Known Member
I happen to like the shiny versions....now if they would make rank pips like they did on the show and shine them up...then I could wear them to work as well!!!
Wow that sucks.
YenChih Lin
Master Member
well, I guess you'll have to recast the thing and hollow it out, since the it was made from the masters and perfected. Besides, the new paint would reflect more a screen accurate piece.
It is now a backless refrigerator magnet. Like I said, a gift for a friend and he wasn't too bothered by the flaw. Fortunately the front part was okay.
Yes, a two part hollow resin version does sound nice. Recasters on eBay will probably have them available soon. Lol.
Yes, a two part hollow resin version does sound nice. Recasters on eBay will probably have them available soon. Lol.
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
Yes that does suck. Returning it would be the best think. However, if it had happen to me (and I was not giving it as a gift). I would simply re-glue it with JB Weld or another type of two part epoxy. After all, it was just glued on there to begin with.
Man.. I used to have one of those many years ago in my teenage years. I have been looking all over for those, but cannot find them. I still have the silver part, but the gold part I lost back in the early 90's. Stephend and Mara Jade's Father, can you both confirm that there are 3 pegs on the back of the silver part that connect to the gold part? Can you also confirm that the silver part is hollow on the underside? Are there obvious missing sections along the black part where it meets the gold part toward the tips?
Have a couple questions for you guys
1) Would either of you be willing to sell it?
2) Do you know where I can obtain these old pins?
3) Could either of you take a picture of your pin head on, with no angle so I could try and scratch build the gold piece if I can't find one to buy?
Please note that I am not interested in QMx, Roddenberry.com or any other replicates created, even if from original TNG combadge molds. In my opinion, no one has ever done it justice if these are the original 1987 combadges that were released.
As you can clearly see, I would really like to find these old pins again.. If either of you can help, it would be greatly appreciated.
This would be for my own enjoyment as I have looked for these pins for nearly 20 years without any luck and they haven't been manufactured for a long time or I would buy them. In fact, I bought 3 of the re-releases from Starbase Atlanta, only to find out that they were not the originals I thought they were. They only had 4 of them in stock. I was very disappointed when they arrived.Here are the pics of my original, 30 year old silver piece. Note the 3 pegs on the back of it. I would love to replace the gold part.
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So, the issue I have between the QMx and the Roddenberry.com version is the following:
QMx states they used the original molds. Roddenberry states they did a recast from the screen-filmed props.
Roddenberry.com states “ Replicated from screen-filmed props, this item represents the actual pieces that were worn on the shows” via this link. It also states 1:1 replica.
QMx states “Our TNG communicator badge was crafted using one of the only remaining sets of original molds, which was painstakingly restored in our artisan model shop. With the restored molds we were able to replicate the prop's size and shape exactly.” via this link.
See the attached picture I took demonstrating one of the largest differences between them. The Roddenberry has the same thickness as the QMx, however, it does not have the same length. Additionally, the oval of the Roddenberry replica is offset, presumably due to the shortened length.
Basically, not sure whom to trust on this issue. The original 1987 Lincoln Enterprises replica does match the QMx dimensions more closely (given the piece I have). Anyway, I know this is an old thread, but I just found the site
QMx states they used the original molds. Roddenberry states they did a recast from the screen-filmed props.
Roddenberry.com states “ Replicated from screen-filmed props, this item represents the actual pieces that were worn on the shows” via this link. It also states 1:1 replica.
QMx states “Our TNG communicator badge was crafted using one of the only remaining sets of original molds, which was painstakingly restored in our artisan model shop. With the restored molds we were able to replicate the prop's size and shape exactly.” via this link.
See the attached picture I took demonstrating one of the largest differences between them. The Roddenberry has the same thickness as the QMx, however, it does not have the same length. Additionally, the oval of the Roddenberry replica is offset, presumably due to the shortened length.
Basically, not sure whom to trust on this issue. The original 1987 Lincoln Enterprises replica does match the QMx dimensions more closely (given the piece I have). Anyway, I know this is an old thread, but I just found the site
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trekker670
Well-Known Member
I'm getting an "invalid attachment" error trying to view the linked image.
sorry about that.. fixed
So, the issue I have between the QMx and the Roddenberry.com version is the following:
QMx states they used the original molds. Roddenberry states they did a recast from the screen-filmed props.
Roddenberry.com states “ Replicated from screen-filmed props, this item represents the actual pieces that were worn on the shows” via this link. It also states 1:1 replica.
QMx states “Our TNG communicator badge was crafted using one of the only remaining sets of original molds, which was painstakingly restored in our artisan model shop. With the restored molds we were able to replicate the prop's size and shape exactly.” via this link.
See the attached picture I took demonstrating one of the largest differences between them. The Roddenberry has the same thickness as the QMx, however, it does not have the same length. Additionally, the oval of the Roddenberry replica is offset, presumably due to the shortened length.
View attachment 847739
Basically, not sure whom to trust on this issue. The original 1987 Lincoln Enterprises replica does match the QMx dimensions more closely (given the piece I have). Anyway, I know this is an old thread, but I just found the site
Whatever their starting point (whether the aforementioned original mold, or a casting out of the same), QMx would have had to make a new digital master given they had to work in the separate front face, spots for magnets, etc, before generating their tooling. There is a lot of room for error and oversight when you take a handmade physical object and translate it into a different manufacturing process by way of a 3D model. That new model will have variation from the original, whether intentional or not (the front face being a flatter separate piece, a little geometry clean-up/smoothing/idealization, etc).
Some of this alteration is visible in the shape of the silver portion - the internal angle on the arrowhead is softer and more rounded on the QMx than in screen used examples, and there is more room for silver in the tips of the legs - that hints to me that the QMx legs were thickened up a hair, which would mean they'd have to be longer to keep the same sharpness at the tip.
Take a look also at the image below - one original and two QMx resin prototypes (same medium, same geometry as original). Somewhat a different shape to the final product you have in hand in the areas I mentioned, no?
It's also likely the Roddenberry master and the QMx master are from quite different periods of the show... I'm not a combadge expert but the prop shops were constantly making new badges and new molds as they wore out. Just look at the variation in the screen used combadges seen in the post earlier in this thread (take note of how the left leg of the delta is shorter than the right in some cases): https://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=172778&p=2929508&viewfull=1#post2929508
Personally I would choose the Roddenberry badge any day of the week. It's recreated by direct molding of an original badge with no intermediary steps, and in the original material, with much more accurate paint and finish.
Your comment of "shops were constantly making new badges and new molds" resonated with me. I did some extra research and it seems that is very true.
These two articles did confirm that for me:
https://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=32378&p=423238&viewfull=1#post423238
https://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=32378&p=1822806&viewfull=1#post1822806
I guess the reason why I am so hung up on the Lincoln Enterprises 1987 2-piece release is that it was different than the newer ones. First, they are "metal" maybe not real gold or silver, but they were metal, which is how the show described them. Second, I don't need to have an exact screen used replica, because who wants a piece of plastic when you can have metal as it was described on the show. Not to mention, the screen props of today do not resemble season1-2 of TNG. Third, they are painted and not like the shiny, reflection making combadges of today. In many ways, the very first released LE combadges were what QMx was "trying" to do, but missed the mark. Finally, they are much easier to take care of given that the arrow and the oval are two pieces that can be taken apart, painted, and put back together. Maintenance is definitely easier.
I really wish there would be a re-relase of that original LE 1987 combadge, but I understand that we have moved on from that combadge.
So, I found a "copy" badge that is not the LE 2-piece version, but has the same features. It is also about 30 years old or so. What I am going to do is take that copycat version, which is not signed on the back, and use my piece to re-make the original LE 2-piece combadge; It is my favorite if you haven't guessed. Here is a picture of the copycat badge that I am still waiting on in the mail. These badges back then were made out of some type of alloy, most likely pewter. Can anyone confirm it is pewter?
Pictures of Lincoln Enterprises 1987 combadge to compare:
http://startrek.posthaven.com/combadge
You can tell that this badge is a copycat because:
1) there are obvious differences in the thickness of the arrow points compared to the original LE 1987 version
2) There are various imperfections like the "bump' on the mid-lower left of the arrow, the bump on the left top portion of the arrow, the bump on the top leftside of the oval.
3) the overall thickness of all the features is more pronounced, as you would expect from a copycat version.
4) the copycat version is all one piece of pewter as opposed to 2 pieces from the original with obvious features proving it came from the LE 1987 version.
5) you can tell from the underside that the hollow arrow was filled in with pewter and it even has the same inverse oval lip bump on the underside toward the bottom of the oval.
So, while it would be nice if I could find the LE 1987 version to purchase, I have purchased the copycat version in an attempt to re-engineer the LE version. I have purchased a small furnace to melt the pewter ingot I also purchased.. and all of the correct color spraypaints and other tools I need.
Here are the steps I am using to re-engineer the original LE version. Any tips would be appreciated.
1) Slightly modify the copycat version to remove some of the aforementioned imperfections and remove the built-up old paint.
2) polish the copycat version to reduce other imperfections and recast the copycat version using a silicone mold and create a resin piece.
3) take an xacto saw (they have the thinnest blades) to cut the oval part away from the arrow.
4) slightly sand down the outer and inner lip of the oval pieces to a steeper angle.
5) Position the oval pieces in molding clay and create a bridge between the pieces.
6) Use the arrow piece of the LE version I do have to create the 3 pegs into the clay bridges and get the overall outline of the LE arrow.
7) Cast the oval using silicone and create a new recombined oval piece.
8) Take the arrow portion and hollow out the inside using dremel or manual sanding to create the 1mm inside walls
9) Build up the side of the arrow as necessary
10) combination of sanding the top arrow lip (black line) as well as using putty to fill in the center to make the lip less pronounced and more even.
11) Fit the arrow and oval cast together and make adjustments as necessary
12) take a marker and stick through the peg holes of the oval to mark where I need to create the 3 pegs on the underside of the arrow
13) Use sprues from a model kit and glue on new pegs to the underside of the arrow while making sure they fit the peg hole on the oval.
14) create a new silicone mold of the new arrow and make a resin piece
15) test fit and make any adjustments necessary.. also add magnet holes on the back to fit 5mmx2mm short field magnets
16) Create new final high temperature silicone molds of both pieces
17) cast pewter version
This is the first time I thought about the steps, so there may be gotchas in the process that I have not taken into account. Mostly, this is just my list of steps as an initial draft. Anyway, I am definitely going to have fun doing this.
I am not intending to use pins to attach to a shirt. I am going to use strong short field magnets like QMx does and I will make some sort of pewter back piece for that. I intend to use 2 smaller magnets and put one on each side of the back of the oval so that we don't have the upside down scenario that the Qmx version has.
Any thoughts?
These two articles did confirm that for me:
https://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=32378&p=423238&viewfull=1#post423238
https://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=32378&p=1822806&viewfull=1#post1822806
I guess the reason why I am so hung up on the Lincoln Enterprises 1987 2-piece release is that it was different than the newer ones. First, they are "metal" maybe not real gold or silver, but they were metal, which is how the show described them. Second, I don't need to have an exact screen used replica, because who wants a piece of plastic when you can have metal as it was described on the show. Not to mention, the screen props of today do not resemble season1-2 of TNG. Third, they are painted and not like the shiny, reflection making combadges of today. In many ways, the very first released LE combadges were what QMx was "trying" to do, but missed the mark. Finally, they are much easier to take care of given that the arrow and the oval are two pieces that can be taken apart, painted, and put back together. Maintenance is definitely easier.
I really wish there would be a re-relase of that original LE 1987 combadge, but I understand that we have moved on from that combadge.
So, I found a "copy" badge that is not the LE 2-piece version, but has the same features. It is also about 30 years old or so. What I am going to do is take that copycat version, which is not signed on the back, and use my piece to re-make the original LE 2-piece combadge; It is my favorite if you haven't guessed.
Here is a picture of the copycat badge that I am still waiting on in the mail. These badges back then were made out of some type of alloy, most likely pewter. Can anyone confirm it is pewter?Pictures of Lincoln Enterprises 1987 combadge to compare:
http://startrek.posthaven.com/combadge
You can tell that this badge is a copycat because:
1) there are obvious differences in the thickness of the arrow points compared to the original LE 1987 version
2) There are various imperfections like the "bump' on the mid-lower left of the arrow, the bump on the left top portion of the arrow, the bump on the top leftside of the oval.
3) the overall thickness of all the features is more pronounced, as you would expect from a copycat version.
4) the copycat version is all one piece of pewter as opposed to 2 pieces from the original with obvious features proving it came from the LE 1987 version.
5) you can tell from the underside that the hollow arrow was filled in with pewter and it even has the same inverse oval lip bump on the underside toward the bottom of the oval.
So, while it would be nice if I could find the LE 1987 version to purchase, I have purchased the copycat version in an attempt to re-engineer the LE version. I have purchased a small furnace to melt the pewter ingot I also purchased.. and all of the correct color spraypaints and other tools I need.
Here are the steps I am using to re-engineer the original LE version. Any tips would be appreciated.
1) Slightly modify the copycat version to remove some of the aforementioned imperfections and remove the built-up old paint.
2) polish the copycat version to reduce other imperfections and recast the copycat version using a silicone mold and create a resin piece.
3) take an xacto saw (they have the thinnest blades) to cut the oval part away from the arrow.
4) slightly sand down the outer and inner lip of the oval pieces to a steeper angle.
5) Position the oval pieces in molding clay and create a bridge between the pieces.
6) Use the arrow piece of the LE version I do have to create the 3 pegs into the clay bridges and get the overall outline of the LE arrow.
7) Cast the oval using silicone and create a new recombined oval piece.
8) Take the arrow portion and hollow out the inside using dremel or manual sanding to create the 1mm inside walls
9) Build up the side of the arrow as necessary
10) combination of sanding the top arrow lip (black line) as well as using putty to fill in the center to make the lip less pronounced and more even.
11) Fit the arrow and oval cast together and make adjustments as necessary
12) take a marker and stick through the peg holes of the oval to mark where I need to create the 3 pegs on the underside of the arrow
13) Use sprues from a model kit and glue on new pegs to the underside of the arrow while making sure they fit the peg hole on the oval.
14) create a new silicone mold of the new arrow and make a resin piece
15) test fit and make any adjustments necessary.. also add magnet holes on the back to fit 5mmx2mm short field magnets
16) Create new final high temperature silicone molds of both pieces
17) cast pewter version
This is the first time I thought about the steps, so there may be gotchas in the process that I have not taken into account. Mostly, this is just my list of steps as an initial draft. Anyway, I am definitely going to have fun doing this.
I am not intending to use pins to attach to a shirt. I am going to use strong short field magnets like QMx does and I will make some sort of pewter back piece for that. I intend to use 2 smaller magnets and put one on each side of the back of the oval so that we don't have the upside down scenario that the Qmx version has.
Any thoughts?
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Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
Here you go.
Besides the above pin, one of my person favorites of the mass offered comm badges is this one.
Yes, it's too shiny but I love the shape and thickness. I also love the way that did the black border. I think the black border is so very important to the overall look of the pin. It's also plastic but I think that works best for costuming.
I would love if someone created a badge in 3 separate parts, one part for each color. The gold oval, A black delta with inset area, and silver inset.
The QMX pin is not bad, it's just not great. I do not see why they bother making it a selling point that it is taken from actual molds if they then rehash it by taking the short cut of adding a front face plate, not including the black border on the sides of the delta, and going with reflective finish.
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
I think this badge is basically a 2.0 of the original badge. Not in a way that it is better, just that it replaced the original. I noticed that these hit the market as the originals had disappeared.
I would have to believe that whoever is responsible for the first pin figured out it would be cheaper to make the pin in one piece and in cheaper materials. I don't have one of these pins but if I remember back in the day, they were no where near as heavy. So probably an alloy.
Thanks for the pictures! I wish I could find one of those again!
Someone did create a 3 piece badge. I have one (see below)
I took it apart and painted it with the proper color of paints and also flattened the black. here is a picture of the 3 pieces.
Here is a pic of all 3 together. I think I will have to find some "coppery" color paint to use as the gold is just too yellow.
Attachments
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Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
paint job came out very nice.
Yeah, it isn't bad. I am waiting for the Krylon 1701 Bright Gold to be delivered, but I used the Dupli-color instant gold, and it is very yellow.
If the krylon isn't more coppery, I might have to do Krylon Brass, that I read in some articles. I have the roddenberry.com version and can see that I need a darker gold. Here are some other angles to view.
you know.. truly.. I don't think I will ever be happy unless I can find one of those original two piece communicators or I just scratch build my own hahah. The previous article I posted about that copycat version is "almost" 2 dimensional. It looked better in the pictures before I bought it as it appeared to have more depth. No, what someone did was take the original 2 piece and flatten it so that it doesn't have near the dimensions that the original had. So.. I found another one on the web (2nd generation pin, of course, all one piece) that looks like the copycat artist put a little more depth and detail on it. I will know when it is delivered tomorrow, but I could also be disappointed again.
