Star Trek: Discovery (2017)
- Thread starter mkstewartesq
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MrSouthpaw
Sr Member
Giving a good reason that actually work really well, for Kirk's personality in TOS is just good writing. At that moment, we finally understand a fundamental truth about Kirk and why he did what he did. It's not revisionism. Nothing about Kirk or TOS changes due to that simple fact, they just become even more understandable. But it does make it canon for his character, extending back to TOS.
And the overall point is that STD is stealing yet another thing from traditional Trek. In this case a specific personality trait of one of the most famous Trek characters.
@DavidS
Actually Kirk did break the big rules now and again in TOS, just not to the extent that a lot of people think.
Whenever Kirk didn't like a society being led by a computer or something, he would directly violate the Prime Directive. The Archons for instance.
Hovito loincloth
Well-Known Member
But the "No win scenario" is established as a training requirement for Starfleet officers so Saru and the rest of the crew would be familiar with the possibility. So this version of Trek is not allowed to borrow familiar tenets of classic Trek to act as touchstones for established fans and for it's own dramatic purposes?
AnubisGuard
Master Member
It really, really is revisionism. There's little about TOS Kirk that fits with a cheating, simulation reprogramming, "never faced death" maverick.
Hovito loincloth
Well-Known Member
And the one thing that does bug me is the walking/sitting/ interacting with local geography holograms. Are they Force ghosts? And the stupid uniforms. Two things that bug me. Oh, and the spore network. Three. Three things that bug me. Oh, and the terrible Klingon ship design. It just reminds me of Matt Irvine's appalling hair dryer ship from Blake's Seven. Four things.
But the rest is enjoyable.
But the rest is enjoyable.
AnubisGuard
Master Member
Oh my God, please tell me those are actual hairdryers.
Hovito loincloth
Well-Known Member
Oh yes, the apex of BBC special effects. Forget about the Action Man tank in Robot in Tom Baker's first Who story. This is two hairdryers stuck together purporting to be a spacecraft. Stick some curling tongs on the side andVoila! a DSC Klingon cruiser.
And they're not just hairdryers. They're hairdryers with MPC R2 domes glued to them.
MrSouthpaw
Sr Member
There is no canon source showing the existence of the KM test prior to Kirk's time. Not saying he was the first or anything, but there is nothing in canon to support that the Discovery crew could have taken it.
@AnubisGuard
While it's true that Kirk was never a huge ladies-man who bedded women at every Starbase. He was also not this "by-the-books" character that some think of. He can and did break the rules in TOS.
More than once he directly violated the prime directive to save the people from computers that controlled society. Most notably "Return of the Archons" and "The Apple". And those aren't the only examples. Just two of the biggest.
So, no it's not revisionism. Nothing about the test changes Kirk, unless you are of a mind that Kirk was a straight-laced by-the-books prime and proper captain that never broke any rules. Which is as wrong as the perception that he was a bed-hopping rogue.
Hovito loincloth
Well-Known Member
By the end of season two they will have defeated the Klingons who will supply the Federation with enormous supplies of velour, go go boots and jewel button instrument panels by way of war reparations to get the series looking like classic Trek. The Klingons will have to wear black turtle necks and metallic string vests instead of their wicker suits as punishment. I'm calling it now.
Agreed.
Kirk in the movies isn't quite the same guy as on TV.
I'd like to have seen how Phase II would have turned out if SW hadn't
pushed them to big screen. I know people jump at that and say, oh they
would have been the lack luster first eps of TNG but even if that were
the case, TNG moved on past those and Phase II would have as well.
Here is a silly stupid prop if you ever need to make a "Queen ship" Jeffery tube.
Visible at the far right is a SimpleHuman Grocery Bag Dispenser. Installed up-side down, probably with a Tap-Light inside. I noticed it immediately in the scene just because I just bought one and put in my kitchen.
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As far as this show... I don't even get why I am still watching. Only because it is "Star Trek" I guess. I can't believe how forced every single scene feels. There is zero humor, zero (unforced) chemistry between characters, and zero consistency. All of the science has been thrown out the window in favor of what is literally magical pixey dust.
The only thing saving StarTrek this year for me is Orville. Thank god for Seth MacFarlane.
Cephus
Master Member
I know exactly why I'm watching it, so when I do the end-of-season review, I can skewer it as it justly deserves. I gave it every bit of rope it needed to hang itself and it did so admirably. None of this alternate universe stuff saved it's bacon. My wife keeps saying she wants them to keep killing off characters so next season, they can completely recast and have a decent show. That would be nice and all but we all know that won't happen. Too many idiots running the show.
The Orville is light-years better than this load of crap. There's no saving this thing so long as it's SJW-Trek.
Hammer3246
Sr Member
Love every episode so far!
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JD
Master Member
ST
is all over the map for me. Still not one likeable character in the bunch (outside of maybe Tilly - but they seem to be trying too hard to make her likeable). It's like the crew from hell - all these characters that I almost root against and these storylines that mope along.
I'm all for character development, I'm all for building towards something... but, this feels like it's just plodding away. Almost like the writing team is grasping at straws and just finding things that work in the end. Both showrunners are seasoned industry vets - but, it still seems unsteady and uneven. Nothing has come close to the first two episodes which I found utterly amazing (I wonder what may have happened has Fuller stuck around).
That said, I still watch with great anticipation and a general like for the overall premise. It still feels enough like Star Trek to me - a darker, gritter Trek for sure. I just want to see the ship blow up already - with Burnham and Saru and most of the crew on board.
is all over the map for me. Still not one likeable character in the bunch (outside of maybe Tilly - but they seem to be trying too hard to make her likeable). It's like the crew from hell - all these characters that I almost root against and these storylines that mope along.I'm all for character development, I'm all for building towards something... but, this feels like it's just plodding away. Almost like the writing team is grasping at straws and just finding things that work in the end. Both showrunners are seasoned industry vets - but, it still seems unsteady and uneven. Nothing has come close to the first two episodes which I found utterly amazing (I wonder what may have happened has Fuller stuck around).
That said, I still watch with great anticipation and a general like for the overall premise. It still feels enough like Star Trek to me - a darker, gritter Trek for sure. I just want to see the ship blow up already - with Burnham and Saru and most of the crew on board.
I can say for sure that I havn't loved every episode so far. I've liked a few of them but I don't know how they are supposed to come back from killing off one the stars of the show. This makes me think this is a GOT in space clone because they always seem to be killing off major characters and I seem to recall an interview from before the show aired that the producers loved GOT.
Lt. Kirk was already a Starfleet officer, serving on the Farragut, during the time period of Discovery in the 2250s. He would have taken the KM test when at the academy, prior to that, and therefore it predates Discovery. TOS episode "Obsession" certainly qualifies as canon.
MrSouthpaw
Sr Member
Maybe, big maybe on the younger crew members. But let's talk about Saru, the one who actually said it.
Saru's career predates Kirk enough for there to be some leeway. And initially being a science officer, would not have taken the test during his academy days in any case. Spock did not take it. Only people on track for command take it. So what would he even know about it outside of rumor, hearsay, and speculation? He certainly would not have it ingrained in his command-character, since he was not groomed that way.
The ultimate point though is that they are stealing Kirk's character trait of not accepting the "no-win" scenario. Saru has no business being Kirk, so to speak. And it stinks of character-theft and lazy writing.
Hovito loincloth
Well-Known Member
You seem to be an expert on the test. What are your sources? You seem to approach it as the Kobiyashi Maru is some kind of masonic secret whispered about by command staff. In everyday life there are plenty of "no win scenarios" that people face. I don't see being on a seemingly doomed ship as any different. And why would command track staff be the only ones to take it? It's a test of character, not command skill. Any officer may have to take command. They're not going to turn round and say "I'm not sure if I can accept this no win scenario because I didn't take the test."
MrSouthpaw
Sr Member
My sources are the movies, the television show, and verified via several wiki sources. Watch WoK sometime.
While the KM is not a state-secret. My understanding is that cadets are ordered into silence, so as to not give lower classmen a heads up.
We aren't talking about "everyday life" we are talking about a very specific characteristic and event.
It's a test of how the command recruit would handle the situation as captain. That's why it's given to command-track.
I'm sure that Starfleet knew that Spock might one day have to take command of the Enterprise. He did so in TOS, never was required to take the KM.
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