Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)

What did you think of Star Wars: The Last Jedi?

  • It was great. Loved it. Don't miss it at the theaters.

    Votes: 154 26.6%
  • It was good. Liked it very much. Worth the theater visit.

    Votes: 135 23.4%
  • It was okay. Not too pleased with it. Could watch it at the cinema once or wait for home video.

    Votes: 117 20.2%
  • It was disappointing. Watch it on home video instead.

    Votes: 70 12.1%
  • It was bad. Don't waste your time with it.

    Votes: 102 17.6%

  • Total voters
    578
Solo4114 I see what youre saying, but I dont think it applies to the case with TFA. I feel as though the things JJ had a "mystery" box approach is what the whole ST is about. That with a little added resistance/empire thing. He also knew that it was an episode in a 3 part movie series. So, they could have had time to explain the questions, knowing full well nothing had to be completed in the first go, because 2 more movies were going to come a long. You cant really say that is the same with Luke and Darth Vader, because not only did George Lucas not expect to make another one, he originally had Darth NOT be Lukes father, and have him die in the end, because he thought this(ANH) would be his only shot at making the movie he wanted to make. Fast forward to now, and Disney and the writers KNEW it was going to be a trilogy, hence why I think they made those "mystery box" decisions. To have something to explore, to introduce new characters while still using the old. To me, thats why TLJ is such a travesty, in essence, because it killed TFA too. Not only did TLJ suck, and it ruined TFA, but now I have no interest in seeing what happens in Episode 9.

Hell I wish they adapted the TImothy Zhan/Thrawn novels. I would have been giddy to have seen that. Thank god for Marvel, they hold the keys to my beloved childhood now. :D
 
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To me, thats why TLJ is such a travesty, in essence, because it killed TFA too. Not only did TLJ suck, and it ruined TFA, but now I have no interest in seeing what happens in Episode 9.

TFA<--------Killed---------------TLJ-------------Will Kill------------->Ep.9

But that's not the extent to which Ruin poisoned the Star Wars well. While SOLO sucked on its own merits, it still would've made more money were it not for the TLJ backlash. Not a ton more. But the film lost just enough money that it may very well kill future standalone films like a post-ROTS/pre-ANH OWK story...something a lot of fans would love to see, especially given Ewan's keen interest in doing the film.

I daresay Ruin is reviled more than Darth Kennedy, herself. And that's quite an achievement.

The Wook
 
TFA<--------Killed---------------TLJ-------------Will Kill------------->Ep.9

But that's not the extent to which Ruin poisoned the Star Wars well. While SOLO sucked on its own merits, it still would've made more money were it not for the TLJ backlash. Not a ton more. But the film lost just enough money that it may very well kill future standalone films like a post-ROTS/pre-ANH OWK story...something a lot of fans would love to see, especially given Ewan's keen interest in doing the film.

I daresay Ruin is reviled more than Darth Kennedy, herself. And that's quite an achievement.

The Wook
Ruin Johnson is definitely more reviled thank KK, especially to the casual fan. Take my sister for instance. She loves Star Wars but isnt a big a fan as me, we saw TLJ together and as soon as the director credit came up she was like "I hate that guy". I personally hate Ruin more than KK, KK's past achievements are enough to absolve her of the TLJ crime. Solo was meh, and it could have been glorious. TLJ pretty much divided everyone and killed the ST. I mean, what other sequels are so bad that they retroactively killed the first movie?
 
Ruin Johnson is definitely more reviled thank KK, especially to the casual fan. Take my sister for instance. She loves Star Wars but isnt a big a fan as me, we saw TLJ together and as soon as the director credit came up she was like "I hate that guy". I personally hate Ruin more than KK, KK's past achievements are enough to absolve her of the TLJ crime. Solo was meh, and it could have been glorious. TLJ pretty much divided everyone and killed the ST. I mean, what other sequels are so bad that they retroactively killed the first movie?

You're being too soft on her. She hired him, and she signed off on the film. She also hired him for THREE more films.

What's more, he made TLJ specifically to please her! He knew exactly what she wanted--to kill the past!!! More specifically, every MALE character from the past. smh

The Wook
 
You're being too soft on her. She hired him, and she signed off on the film. She also hired him for THREE more films.

What's more, he made TLJ specifically to please her! He knew exactly what she wanted--to kill the past!!!

The Wook
I know, its because she has produced so many other good movies. Well, the 3 other films arent even close to principal photography so Im only referring to TLJ.

Ugh thats true. Damn it Wook. Thats a compelling argument. I hate change, and Im a very nostalgic person so that comment resonates with me. Curse both of them! But Ruin more, cause I hate his smug face.
 
@Solo4114 I see what youre saying, but I dont think it applies to the case with TFA. I feel as though the things JJ had a "mystery" box approach is what the whole ST is about. That with a little added resistance/empire thing. He also knew that it was an episode in a 3 part movie series. So, they could have had time to explain the questions, knowing full well nothing had to be completed in the first go, because 2 more movies were going to come a long. You cant really say that is the same with Luke and Darth Vader, because not only did George Lucas not expect to make another one, he originally had Darth NOT be Lukes father, and have him die in the end, because he thought this(ANH) would be his only shot at making the movie he wanted to make. Fast forward to now, and Disney and the writers KNEW it was going to be a trilogy, hence why I think they made those "mystery box" decisions. To have something to explore, to introduce new characters while still using the old. To me, thats why TLJ is such a travesty, in essence, because it killed TFA too. Not only did TLJ suck, and it ruined TFA, but now I have no interest in seeing what happens in Episode 9.

Hell I wish they adapted the TImothy Zhan/Thrawn novels. I would have been giddy to have seen that. Thank god for Marvel, they hold the keys to my beloved childhood now. :D

If it's the Zahn novels you want, you can find them adapted by Dark Horse comics. I think Dark Horse can still sell its old stuff, but if not, try to find 'em on Ebay.

As for the ST, I don't think he ever expected to explain some of the background stuff. Rey's parents? Yeah, maybe. I still don't like the way he did it.

But, here's the thing: even if you think TLJ killed that line of inquiry......it didn't. Rey's parentage -- her true parentage, I mean -- could still be revealed later. And the beauty of it, in my opinion, is that it won't hurt what I liked about TLJ (that Rey ultimately creates her own path, rather than having it handed to her by destiny). You could reveal it later and have it turn out that Ben was simply "reading" Rey and her assumptions about her parents, when some other truth exists. Like, he didn't actually know the truth, he just knew what Rey thought was the truth. So, the truth could be revealed later, and hopefully it would be meaningful for Rey (instead of just for the audience).

Ruin Binks....?

I have a friend who runs a restaurant that makes awesome ruen bing.
 
SWSJW.jpg
 
He knew exactly what she wanted--to kill the past!!!

It is worth mentioning that, generally speaking, any axiomatic statement made in dialogue by a structurally established antagonist (in this case, "Let the past die", from Kylo/Ben) is not reflective of the broader thematic statements being made by the work itself. Rather, the curated intersection of plot and decisive character choice -- explicitly not dialogue, in cinematic terms -- speak to the deeper themes that emerge through these mythological expressions. Given the culminating turns of The Last Jedi, I think it speaks to the ideological failure of Ben's statement.

TL,DR: If the villain says it, the movie isn't -- and often, it is saying the opposite, insomuch as any story can interpretative be said to "say" anything.

Sorry your little plastic man turned into a ghost.
 
It is worth mentioning that, generally speaking, any axiomatic statement made in dialogue by a structurally established antagonist (in this case, "Let the past die", from Kylo/Ben) is not reflective of the broader thematic statements being made by the work itself. Rather, the curated intersection of plot and decisive character choice -- explicitly not dialogue, in cinematic terms -- speak to the deeper themes that emerge through these mythological expressions. Given the culminating turns of The Last Jedi, I think it speaks to the ideological failure of Ben's statement.

TL,DR: If the villain says it, the movie isn't -- and often, it is saying the opposite, insomuch as any story can interpretative be said to "say" anything.

Sorry your little plastic man turned into a ghost.


Wow ! ,... so Kylo was speaking schit !? . Hmm ... pretty much how RJ treated the characters in TLJ . IMHO of course .


:cheersGed
 
It is worth mentioning that, generally speaking, any axiomatic statement made in dialogue by a structurally established antagonist (in this case, "Let the past die", from Kylo/Ben) is not reflective of the broader thematic statements being made by the work itself. Rather, the curated intersection of plot and decisive character choice -- explicitly not dialogue, in cinematic terms -- speak to the deeper themes that emerge through these mythological expressions. Given the culminating turns of The Last Jedi, I think it speaks to the ideological failure of Ben's statement.

TL,DR: If the villain says it, the movie isn't -- and often, it is saying the opposite, insomuch as any story can interpretative be said to "say" anything.

Sorry your little plastic man turned into a ghost.

I really think you are giving Rian to much credit here. There is no way he has though as deeply as you about the line “let the past die”. He wanted to kill off or alter as many of the original characters as he could, and did. He added the line because it sounded clever to him.

Now having decimated the old cast, he seems to smugly enjoy quoting this in interviews/makings of whilst literally winking at the camera. Great.

I cannot wait for his next trilogy of bilge!
 
I'd love for the next trilogy to be great. To rekindle the fire.

Rian is trying wayyy too hard to convince us he shouldn't be involved.
 

That one phrase absolutely nails what exactly is going wrong with the current concept and management of SW.

War is all about hostility between heros and villians , of costly sacrifices , terrible destruction and death. At its most basic its all about combat , of both sides marshalling terrifying resources and political infastructures to kill more of the other until one leadership is victorious and the other finally collapses ,its economy so badly destroyed that the remaining population surrenders as it can no longer fight.

Even the Prequels understood this (if not much else).

And to me at least ,thats why TLJ mostly fails to feel like a truely honest SW movie.Because none of its characters ,when faced with a moment of absolute crisis , where the balance of their decisions would make a critical difference , takes the right course of action thats at all understandable to its audience. Roses statement at that moment in the film typifies this.

Thats where, in direct contrast, Marvels "Infinity War" absolutely gets it dead right. Its a "war movie" set in a "comic" universe in which the costs to everybody, even the villian , are incredibly high. Its not written for "kids",its treats everybody ,be they a man, woman , magician, a living god or tree, a talking racoon , a king ,a nation and even the collective villians with enough respect that when any of them ,when their life is on the line, they make a choice that make mostly sense to anybody watching.

And thats where ,to a larger extent ,the Wooks SWIQ as a measurement of a SW movie is actually "rightish".

Because both ANH and TESB feel like "war" movies set in a universe in which there are real costly consequences for everybody and everything involved. Where what they do in the kind of conflict that feels like it could be really waged between opposing sides amoungst the stars in fantastic battles actually counts for something.
And thats when you are dealing with these kinds of movies the producers should not be treated them as the kind of entertainment thats aimmed at " kids". Its those elements like cuddly teddy bears, slapstick comedy, or terribly stupid decisions nobody could ever deserve to escape alive from destroys the illusion we're in a story dealing with potentially devasting consequences.

If you want to make SW content for "kids" then stick with cartoons. Kids love cartoons, but its not for long. They grow out of them quickly. Marvel knows that and been very successful in targeting its media marketing accordingly. It treats the demographic separately, knowing that in a few years most of the kids will want to graduate into relatively less infantile content, like the MCU movies and the Netflix series .

Lets face it you're a grown up for a hell of alot longer than you'll be a kid and you'll respect your choosen entertainment to treat you as such and want to watch it.

Lucasfilm really need to understand this. By removing those elements that are so strongly attractive to the people that are fans of the films and replacing them with others , you are going to upset them and alienate that core portion of the audience .

Thats when ,if you get a character suddenly preaching a message like " Thats how we are gonna win.Not fighting what you hate,saving what you love" in the middle of a gigantic battle in which hundreds of people are being killed, people are going groan in disbelief.
When there is a huge military force with a giant lazer and about thirty monstorusly huge war machines utterly intent on stomping the rebels into the ground and then frying the remaining survivors into dust. Who the hell would NOT be surprised if a large number of fans are actively going to hate her for doing and saying exactly what she did. Thats how you LOOSE a war. If you were a rebel survivor of the attack that reduced the force to just a few dozens, would you want to hug Rose and say well "She did the right thing by her heart?"

Thats why the "Amazons" in "Wonderwoman" and the "Dora Milaje" in "The Black Panther" are characters in the MCU that nearly all the fans respect. Because we all recognise they actually react , like any person truely would ( male or female) during the heat of battle.

And thats where for alot of TLJ the movie just lost the plot for me.
 
It is worth mentioning that, generally speaking, any axiomatic statement made in dialogue by a structurally established antagonist (in this case, "Let the past die", from Kylo/Ben) is not reflective of the broader thematic statements being made by the work itself. Rather, the curated intersection of plot and decisive character choice -- explicitly not dialogue, in cinematic terms -- speak to the deeper themes that emerge through these mythological expressions. Given the culminating turns of The Last Jedi, I think it speaks to the ideological failure of Ben's statement.

TL,DR: If the villain says it, the movie isn't -- and often, it is saying the opposite, insomuch as any story can interpretative be said to "say" anything.

Sorry your little plastic man turned into a ghost.

Okay, you posted this after midnight. Drunk, I imagine.

I mean, who talks like this? :lol
 
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That one phrase absolutely nails what exactly is going wrong with the current concept and management of SW.

War is all about hostility between heros and villians , of costly sacrifices , terrible destruction and death. At its most basic its all about combat , of both sides marshalling terrifying resources and political infastructures to kill more of the other until one leadership is victorious and the other finally collapses ,its economy so badly destroyed that the remaining population surrenders as it can no longer fight.

Even the Prequels understood this (if not much else).

And to me at least ,thats why TLJ mostly fails to feel like a truely honest SW movie.Because none of its characters ,when faced with a moment of absolute crisis , where the balance of their decisions would make a critical difference , takes the right course of action thats at all understandable to its audience. Roses statement at that moment in the film typifies this.

Thats where, in direct contrast, Marvels "Infinity War" absolutely gets it dead right. Its a "war movie" set in a "comic" universe in which the costs to everybody, even the villian , are incredibly high. Its not written for "kids",its treats everybody ,be they a man, woman , magician, a living god or tree, a talking racoon , a king ,a nation and even the collective villians with enough respect that when any of them ,when their life is on the line, they make a choice that make mostly sense to anybody watching.

And thats where ,to a larger extent ,the Wooks SWIQ as a measurement of a SW movie is actually "rightish".

Because both ANH and TESB feel like "war" movies set in a universe in which there are real costly consequences for everybody and everything involved. Where what they do in the kind of conflict that feels like it could be really waged between opposing sides amoungst the stars in fantastic battles actually counts for something.
And thats when you are dealing with these kinds of movies the producers should not be treated them as the kind of entertainment thats aimmed at " kids". Its those elements like cuddly teddy bears, slapstick comedy, or terribly stupid decisions nobody could ever deserve to escape alive from destroys the illusion we're in a story dealing with potentially devasting consequences.

If you want to make SW content for "kids" then stick with cartoons. Kids love cartoons, but its not for long. They grow out of them quickly. Marvel knows that and been very successful in targeting its media marketing accordingly. It treats the demographic separately, knowing that in a few years most of the kids will want to graduate into relatively less infantile content, like the MCU movies and the Netflix series .

Lets face it you're a grown up for a hell of alot longer than you'll be a kid and you'll respect your choosen entertainment to treat you as such and want to watch it.

Lucasfilm really need to understand this. By removing those elements that are so strongly attractive to the people that are fans of the films and replacing them with others , you are going to upset them and alienate that core portion of the audience .

Thats when ,if you get a character suddenly preaching a message like " Thats how we are gonna win.Not fighting what you hate,saving what you love" in the middle of a gigantic battle in which hundreds of people are being killed, people are going groan in disbelief.
When there is a huge military force with a giant lazer and about thirty monstorusly huge war machines utterly intent on stomping the rebels into the ground and then frying the remaining survivors into dust. Who the hell would NOT be surprised if a large number of fans are actively going to hate her for doing and saying exactly what she did. Thats how you LOOSE a war. If you were a rebel survivor of the attack that reduced the force to just a few dozens, would you want to hug Rose and say well "She did the right thing by her heart?"

Thats why the "Amazons" in "Wonderwoman" and the "Dora Milaje" in "The Black Panther" are characters in the MCU that nearly all the fans respect. Because we all recognise they actually react , like any person truely would ( male or female) during the heat of battle.

And thats where for alot of TLJ the movie just lost the plot for me.

The issue is that some people like that alternative pathway. What you and I love about a Star Wars movie, and what we feel has been corrupted, others enjoy.


Rose talking about love, when Finn was ready to abandon the cause (and her) 18 hours prior, made me groan. It pissed off a lot of fans.

Really, think about the skimmer scene. All it did was kill off more rebels. Battering ram worked. I was counting down the skimmer kills. And how the He@# did Finn drag Rose back to the base to fast!?!?! That movie will make cinemasins ring a continuous note for errors, instead of their usual jingle.

Just letting you know, that no matter how well you articulate what was wrong with TLJ, it won't phase folks who liked it.
 
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