Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm (after 2021)?

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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

CutThumb said:
I've looked at the subscriber figures on some of the anti Disney and found duplicate posts ie the same people subscribing to all the "I hate DIsney and Kathleen Kennedy" focal points. It makes their numbers seem larger and exaggerates the group size.

And as my analysis of the certain threads in this forum shows, just three people are currently respouncible for a disproprtionate number of similar posts in this various forum. In one thread alone its nearly up to a quarter, thats 25%, of the total replies.And that, of the total membership of the RPF ,is a very,very,very small but very vocal number and they are in every relevant thread on this topic.

Even the combined numbers of the three most vocal anti D&K groups are a very small number of the total number of people that visit the movies regularly. As a percentage of worldwide SW fans its low. And actually within the RPF where SW fan numbers are a huge proportion of the population, the vast majority appear to have gone to see Solo and liked it.

By normal standard BO performances for a sci fi adventure movie Solo has done reasonably well. Don't think I'm telling the truth? Go to Box Office Mojo, go to "genres" and look up "Sci fi adventures." Outside of the fracnhises original sci fi has always had a hard task attracting huge numbers, just look at the BO for "Serenity", "John Carter" even Star Trek. Even the first New JJ Trek ,which was widely well recieved only did $385 million.

Yet by SW standards Solo is seen as disappointment. But by RPFer SW fan standards here it appears top be largely liked and a "success". If anything it appears to me that the SUPPORT of SW fans has really been the only factor in keeping this from really crashing at the BO.

So why is it REALLY struggling?

I don't think its the boycott. That might account for five to ten million at the most currently and digital sales will recoup a large portion of that in three months.

I don't think its because its a bad SW film.It certainly hasn't generated anything like the hatred TLJ did, go check the post review thread. There is nothing like the general negativity toward it there. On your anti D&K youtube channels then yes, but they are going to always say that because "hating" and "controversy" earns them the hits and the money.

But the trailers got nothing like the usual number of hits a SW movie normally would do.

So that says two things strongly to me.

One is that the general movie going public has little interest in SW characters early stories, even if Han Solo is arguably the most admired and well known of SW characters . They just didn't care, but the SW fans did.
So Lucasfilm and Disney failed, to a very large extent ,to understand that there really is no overall huge interest outside the fandom for SW movies that are not Saga based.

That TLJ REALLY did fail to convert and make more new audiences for SW films, otherwise the opposite would be true, Solo would have been more of a success. The more people I speak too outside of the fandom and who have watched it just because its now digitally available say the same thing, it was a mediocre SW movie and that strongly affected their interest in any othe SW films.

And that supports alot of the arguments here. That the direction D&K have been going is not the best for the future of SW films.
Click to expand...

GREAT post!

I haven't done any hard research into it, but this is what I have been saying-- the angry fan voice is the LOUDEST but it isn't the biggest. The past has proven that to be true over and over. If you went by fandom's response to the PT you'd think SW was dead, and yet, all of them are amongst the top money-earners of all time.

As for why Solo failed, I think you're all over it. I think it was a combination of things:

- The angry at TLJ fans weren't enough alone to tank it, but they made a dent
- It was only 6 months out from TLJ, which even if you liked, is a heavy chore to make it through
- The general public has been burned before on the "Star Wars characters you know, but YOUNG" approach
- Not many people WANTED this movie. Cool idea, sure, but we don't NEED that story
- The marketing targeting the general audiences was so-so. The Superbowl trailer made no promise of story, or gave a don't-miss-it vibe. It was LOOK! A YOUNG HAN SOLO! FUN STUFF HAPPENS!
- It was already in the hole with being reshot

Really, there wasn't a lot of incentive for anyone to go and see it other than "Hey look, another Star Wars movie." And they can't do that-- and hopefully lesson learned.

While I defend KK as somebody who knows how to produce movies and run a studio, she has certainly made mistakes. The two biggest being not hiring the right directors, and not having a unified plan for the ST.

I still don't know who would do any better, and she can course-correct, but if she has more than one and half flops, Disney will show her the door, I don't doubt it. But she's a ways from that I think. There's a lot of pressure on Episode 9 to kill it, its no wonder they went back to JJ. Like TFA or not, it made money.

LordHorusNL said:
That quote never sat right with me, why "white slavers"? Why not black slavers or brown slavers or whatever, those were just as common a white ones mister Lucas.

Anybody that would use that kind of language is already elbows deep in the entire social justice narrative and needs to stay far away from the franchise.
Click to expand...

Lucas has always been a complicated with this sort of stuff. He's a staunch liberal and he's married to a black woman... but his roots as a well-off young white dude growing up in Marin county taints him. If you look at the Raiders of the Lost Ark story beat session transcripts, or some of the (according to some) racial stereotypes in TPM and you see a guy who isn't actively racist, but a guy who is just sort of ignorant to the stereotypes that have been programmed into him.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Bigdaddy said:
It's possible Mark just respects his friend's privacy enough not to share their private discussions with the world. MH has always struck me as a really stand up guy.
Click to expand...

Normally I would say you are absolutely correct but when you take in to account all the things Mark said about his feelings towards TLJ and particularly his character before he toned it right back would suggest to me that he and George share the same feelings privately. I mean if George had glowing things to say, Mark would have at least, lightly touched on them with the world.
 
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Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

SethS said:
Kathleen Kennedy produced Rogue One. She hired a director to reshoot half of it. You know, the two key points people are blaming the failure of Solo on.

Lucas already said after TFA that it felt like he sold his child to white slavers. But at the same time, he has a four million dollar pile of cash to sleep on.
Click to expand...

Um, that may be *your* key points, but they arent mine. You create fake arguments for other people, then tantrum and troll when they dont play your game. You are neither objective nor wise. You push your agenda, and if your uninformed assumptions get squashed in the realm of common sense or facts, you go emotional.

I boycotted Solo because like,atleast 150 million dollars in ticket sales indicates, we dont like the new "**** on canon" version of Sar Wars.

Meanwhile, You like their new agenda so you ride anyone who disagrees. Ohhh! Yer so ahead, and they are so behind.

Well, your agenda is failing. You dont like objectivity, but 150 million loss is pretty dang objective.

Unlike you, I will praise what is good no matter who did it, and cite what is bad, no matter who did it. People who are reasonable do that.

You are the perfect example of the trigger-happy intolerant who needs help. Im not the only who says it. You didnt even watch Webber's clip but commented...but everyone *else* is the problem.

We dont have participation trophies here.

Oh, and Lucas got 4 BILLION.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

.... What?

:lol

The only part of this that made sense was the million = billion thing. A very expensive typo. My bad!
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Mr Webber said:
Normally I would say you are absolutely correct but when you take in to account all the things Mark said about his feelings towards TLJ and particularly his character before he toned it right back would suggest to me that he and George share the same feelings privately.
Click to expand...
It could be two things! ;)
It wouldn't surprise me if they both have some negative reaction to the ST, but I don't think Mark's silence about his private conversation is necessarily an indication of the content. Granted if they both loved the new direction of SW they'd be saying loudly.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

And not to say I didnt mind something new. I was entertained by TFA, but sensed a disturbance. TLJ was a series of in-your-face slap-you-in-the-face stupid events that left me counting down the rebel body count rather than rooting for them.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

JPH said:
Well, we dont know, because it *isnt* a comparisson. ;)
Click to expand...

I have no idea in this particular case because I don't really care about that game, but there have been other cases where developers and actors, etc. have gone out and told people that's why these moves were made. They virtue signal to an audience they think will be receptive and once we see that kind of thing enough, it gets to be pretty clear why a lot of Hollywood and Silicon Valley are doing what they're doing. It isn't just a random design element, it's a direct ideological statement. And people absolutely have a right to be upset at that.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

JPH said:
And not to say I didnt mind something new. I was entertained by TFA, but sensed a disturbance. TLJ was a series of in-your-face slap-you-in-the-face stupid events that left me counting down the rebel body count rather than rooting for them.
Click to expand...

I wasn't entertained by TFA at all. Yes, TLJ was much, much worse and for different reasons, but TFA spent way too much time screaming "See! See! I'm Star Wars!" instead of just being a good movie. And Rey is still an obnoxious Mary Sue that I hate with a burning passion. But I absolutely agree that TLJ, beyond all of the elements just blatantly copied from previous entries, was just dumb. It was painfully stupid, and unfortunately, Hollywood has given up on being clever, they just have characters doing really obnoxiously idiotic things to drive the plot because they can't figure out how to have smart characters that still have problems. Far too many movies these days, as you alluded to, make me actively want the "heroes" to die, rather than wanting them to win. If they can't earn their victory, I don't want them to have it and TLJ had not only stupid heroes, it had stupid villains. Snoke not noticing the blatantly obvious lightsaber. Kylo being an emotional child. The whole thing is just dumb. I have no idea how anyone who is not equally dumb would put up with it.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Cephus said:
I wasn't entertained by TFA at all. Yes, TLJ was much, much worse and for different reasons, but TFA spent way too much time screaming "See! See! I'm Star Wars!" instead of just being a good movie. And Rey is still an obnoxious Mary Sue that I hate with a burning passion. But I absolutely agree that TLJ, beyond all of the elements just blatantly copied from previous entries, was just dumb. It was painfully stupid, and unfortunately, Hollywood has given up on being clever, they just have characters doing really obnoxiously idiotic things to drive the plot because they can't figure out how to have smart characters that still have problems. Far too many movies these days, as you alluded to, make me actively want the "heroes" to die, rather than wanting them to win. If they can't earn their victory, I don't want them to have it and TLJ had not only stupid heroes, it had stupid villains. Snoke not noticing the blatantly obvious lightsaber. Kylo being an emotional child. The whole thing is just dumb. I have no idea how anyone who is not equally dumb would put up with it.
Click to expand...

A simple "Like this post" is not enough.

This is some high-SWIQ stuff, right here.

The Wook
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Cephus said:
I wasn't entertained by TFA at all. Yes, TLJ was much, much worse and for different reasons, but TFA spent way too much time screaming "See! See! I'm Star Wars!" instead of just being a good movie. And Rey is still an obnoxious Mary Sue that I hate with a burning passion. But I absolutely agree that TLJ, beyond all of the elements just blatantly copied from previous entries, was just dumb. It was painfully stupid, and unfortunately, Hollywood has given up on being clever, they just have characters doing really obnoxiously idiotic things to drive the plot because they can't figure out how to have smart characters that still have problems. Far too many movies these days, as you alluded to, make me actively want the "heroes" to die, rather than wanting them to win. If they can't earn their victory, I don't want them to have it and TLJ had not only stupid heroes, it had stupid villains. Snoke not noticing the blatantly obvious lightsaber. Kylo being an emotional child. The whole thing is just dumb. I have no idea how anyone who is not equally dumb would put up with it.
Click to expand...

I liked it. Guess I'm "equally dumb."
I really liked how you had an opinion there and brought it all the way to the inevitable "let's insult folks who liked it for a finale."
Well done.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

LordHorusNL said:
Maybe they should read the constitution then. "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"
Click to expand...

That's actually the Declaration of Independence. The U.S. Constitution is a very different thing. The Declaration of Independence is more of an aspirational statement and kind of a declaration of principles. The Constitution is more like the framework for how the government will function. There's some aspirational language (e.g., "In order to form a more perfect union..."), but the bulk of it is laying out "Ok, here's what this branch of government does. Here's what that branch does. Etc., etc." And all of that is separate from the amendments (e.g., the Bill of Rights, which is really just the first 10 amendments).

Note: I don't fault you for not knowing this. I know squat about the Netherlands and its government today, and only a bit about the history of the region due to its intersection with other countries whose history I've studied more closely (e.g. the U.K.). :)


CutThumb said:
I've looked at the subscriber figures on some of the anti Disney and found duplicate posts ie the same people subscribing to all the "I hate DIsney and Kathleen Kennedy" focal points. It makes their numbers seem larger and exaggerates the group size.

And as my analysis of the certain threads in this forum shows, just three people are currently respouncible for a disproprtionate number of similar posts in this various forum. In one thread alone its nearly up to a quarter, thats 25%, of the total replies.And that, of the total membership of the RPF ,is a very,very,very small but very vocal number and they are in every relevant thread on this topic.

Even the combined numbers of the three most vocal anti D&K groups are a very small number of the total number of people that visit the movies regularly. As a percentage of worldwide SW fans its low. And actually within the RPF where SW fan numbers are a huge proportion of the population, the vast majority appear to have gone to see Solo and liked it.

By normal standard BO performances for a sci fi adventure movie Solo has done reasonably well. Don't think I'm telling the truth? Go to Box Office Mojo, go to "genres" and look up "Sci fi adventures." Outside of the fracnhises original sci fi has always had a hard task attracting huge numbers, just look at the BO for "Serenity", "John Carter" even Star Trek. Even the first New JJ Trek ,which was widely well recieved only did $385 million.

Yet by SW standards Solo is seen as disappointment. But by RPFer SW fan standards here it appears top be largely liked and a "success". If anything it appears to me that the SUPPORT of SW fans has really been the only factor in keeping this from really crashing at the BO.

So why is it REALLY struggling?

I don't think its the boycott. That might account for five to ten million at the most currently and digital sales will recoup a large portion of that in three months.

I don't think its because its a bad SW film.It certainly hasn't generated anything like the hatred TLJ did, go check the post review thread. There is nothing like the general negativity toward it there. On your anti D&K youtube channels then yes, but they are going to always say that because "hating" and "controversy" earns them the hits and the money.

But the trailers got nothing like the usual number of hits a SW movie normally would do.

So that says two things strongly to me.

One is that the general movie going public has little interest in SW characters early stories, even if Han Solo is arguably the most admired and well known of SW characters . They just didn't care, but the SW fans did.
So Lucasfilm and Disney failed, to a very large extent ,to understand that there really is no overall huge interest outside the fandom for SW movies that are not Saga based.

That TLJ REALLY did fail to convert and make more new audiences for SW films, otherwise the opposite would be true, Solo would have been more of a success. The more people I speak too outside of the fandom and who have watched it just because its now digitally available say the same thing, it was a mediocre SW movie and that strongly affected their interest in any othe SW films.

And that supports alot of the arguments here. That the direction D&K have been going is not the best for the future of SW films.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think they really ought to reevaluate how they're making movies. Rogue One I think worked because it was like 3/4 a saga movie itself. Solo might be a fun Star Wars movie (I still haven't seen it -- mostly because our usual sitter has been unavailable lately), but I was never one who thought it was a good idea to make. Mostly because I don't care what Han's backstory is. Like, not even a little. Sure, I'll watch it if it's there, but I don't care about it. My real hope for Solo was that it was meant to be a launching point for new stories about new characters and a way to expand the Star Wars universe.

I don't think they need to focus exclusively on saga films, but I do think they need to be bolder with their non-saga films AND to not just keep doing one-offs or "side stories" about main characters. So, for example, much as I love Ewan MacGregor's performance, I really do not care to see an "Obi-Wan in hiding" film. The Boba Fett thing could get interesting, if only because there's a lot you can do with him and because he really could be the vehicle for launching new stories, but really I'd rather they just say "Right. Here's a bunch of totally new characters in a story you've NEVER heard about in any sense," and start building stories around that stuff.

Or, if they think audiences would receive it well, go waaaay back into the old, old Republic. Like, thousands of years back. Or forward. Whatever.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Paul Andrew said:
I liked it. Guess I'm "equally dumb."
I really liked how you had an opinion there and brought it all the way to the inevitable "let's insult folks who liked it for a finale."
Well done.
Click to expand...

Boy, you just love twisting words. He didn't say you, or anyone else who liked the film, are dumb. He said that he finds the film so dumb, that it perplexes him how non-dumb people (in other words, bright and discerning people) can like it.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

That may have been the intention, but the wording insinuates otherwise.

edit: A thing I learned in the not too distant past is that a miscommunication is the fault of the communicator, not the receiver. If the receiver isn't understanding your intent you are failing to put it into a context they understand. Lord knows I've biffed it in this area myself plenty of times.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Paul Andrew said:
I liked it. Guess I'm "equally dumb."
I really liked how you had an opinion there and brought it all the way to the inevitable "let's insult folks who liked it for a finale."
Well done.
Click to expand...

Paul,

But that's how we honestly see it.

I dont know how you can think arming bombs inside of bombers and flying real close, so they blow each other up is smart? How do you defend that? Claiming it is "art" does not change what we were supposed to accept. If Rey took a math test, didnt know what numbers were, said, "two plus two equals sock," and won a trophy, it would make about as much sense.

How shamelessly bad does the movie have to be for people to realize it is bad? The bombers thing doesnt even require a SWIQ.

Every scene in TLJ had multiple cinema sins. The question is, "how many gross, conspicuous errors must occur in a film for you to consider it bad?" I am not saying this to be mean, I am saying this because it disconnects me from caring about a movie. It doesnt make for a good film. While the look of the movie is polished, there is no substance. Like the supermodel that looks up in a rainstorm and drowns.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

JPH said:
Paul,

But that's how we honestly see it.

I dont know how you can think arming bombs inside of bombers and flying real close, so they blow each other up is smart? How do you defend that? Claiming it is "art" does not change what we were supposed to accept. If Rey took a math test, didnt know what numbers were, said, "two plus two equals sock," and won a trophy, it would make about as much sense.

How shamelessly bad does the movie have to be for people to realize it is bad? The bombers thing doesnt even require a SWIQ.

Every scene in TLJ had multiple cinema sins. The question is, "how many gross, conspicuous errors must occur in a film for you to consider it bad?" I am not saying this to be mean, I am saying this because it disconnects me from caring about a movie. It doesnt make for a good film. While the look of the movie is polished, there is no substance. Like the supermodel that looks up in a rainstorm and drowns.
Click to expand...

I don't know. I don't know that I agree with your take. I mean, we're talking about explosives that apparently don't explode until armed. Great. Are they supposed to magically arm themselves in the split second before they hit a target? You'd have folks decrying that too. There are a million takes either way.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

The bombs were armed by remote control. Why not wait til they leave the craft? Since you can arm them by pressing one button, wait til they are outside.

Dont you see, that isnt smart. So, you dont think it isnt dumb, and on this thread, other folks then claim we dont want substance, when that was the one thing we wanted most.

Six bombers, come flying in, if each came from six different directions, you'd reduced you incoming fire by nearly 83% if the enemy aims for each bomber equally. Instead, they were one big, easy target. They just has to hit ONE ship, and let the armed bombs do the rest.

Seriously.

People want to challenge that?

That wasnt wholly distracting? How can people still not see it?

Once again, not trying to be mean, but at what point do you sigh and realize it was dumb?
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

See, the bomber thing was a part I didn't have an issue with (beyond the perennial sci-fi gripe of "there's no 'up' in space"). My granddad flew B-17s in WWII, and that felt pretty much like one of their bombing runs. Close formations so it was hard to target individual craft; expect to take losses, sometimes egregious ones, to accomplish the mission; and the bombs were armed manually while en route by one of the crew -- bet he'd wished for the simplicity of a remote control. Only "problem" of the scene was the context of the tactic. It works if you can replace the lost planes easily and immediately. Which is why the Allies ultimately won -- we were able to crank out heavy bombers and fighter escorts (and the men to fly them) faster than they could be shot down. But Poe doesn't have the resources he did while still a pilot for the Republic. Thinking/acting like he did when opting for that tactic was what he got demoted for. That is, it's a valid tactic, whose use was the wrong choice in the circumstance, and getting punished for using it to teach a lesson was relevant to the plot.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Sorry Inquisitor, it isnt.

I just explained why, based on probablity and the result shown in the film. Close formation when you have waves of many bombers *is* a legit tactic, not when you have six.

Also, in space you can come in from anywhere vs on Earth you come in from where you got fuel and pass your target en route to fuel or landing.

So, once again, "no."

Too much of that is why people boycott.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Solo4114 said:
That's actually the Declaration of Independence. The U.S. Constitution is a very different thing. The Declaration of Independence is more of an aspirational statement and kind of a declaration of principles. The Constitution is more like the framework for how the government will function. There's some aspirational language (e.g., "In order to form a more perfect union..."), but the bulk of it is laying out "Ok, here's what this branch of government does. Here's what that branch does. Etc., etc." And all of that is separate from the amendments (e.g., the Bill of Rights, which is really just the first 10 amendments).

Note: I don't fault you for not knowing this. I know squat about the Netherlands and its government today, and only a bit about the history of the region due to its intersection with other countries whose history I've studied more closely (e.g. the U.K.). :)
Click to expand...

The funny thing is i actually did know it was from the Declaration of Independence, i typed that really quickly while playing budget cuts with my vr headset on so it slipped past me:lol Weirdly i probably know more about US history than my own country's, but thank you for correcting me.
 
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