Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm (after 2021)?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Solo4114 said:
I don't see TLJ as "aping" ESB. I see it as referencing it, but it does a lot that I think is different and in pretty significant ways. You could say it's "the same" in a very surface level way, but thre's a lot that I see going on below the surface of the film that is quite different. I don't have time right this second to write it all out, but I think that basically, the position of the characters relative to each other, and their relationships (especially Rey and Ben) are different from what we've seen. And, as I said, I have no idea where the story goes next, which, in and of itself is original. (I have to admit that I was too young to have seen ESB in theaters, and actually saw it for the first time after I watched ROTJ, so I never really knew what it was like to watch ESB and not know what comes next -- although as a kid, I'd have probably expected something like ROTJ where the good guys just win completely and live happily ever after.)

I think if the next film plays out like a redone version of ROTJ, it will be a colossal mistake. I don't see how you can position the characters to be able to defeat the First Order in a significant way unless you do a TON of stuff "off screen" both before and after the next film. I think that would be a huge waste of some awesome storytelling opportunities and would simply be an effort to fast-forward to the end, so that we can have the trilogy tie up with a bow the way the OT did just because that's how the OT did it.



I actually don't want them to "rhyme." Or at least, not "rhyme" in the sense of "We're basically redoing what we did before, just with new characters."



To be honest, I don't buy that "rhyming" crap anyway. The PT doesn't "rhyme" with the OT. It shares certain overarching plot points and structural similarities, but they don't "rhyme." They don't repeat themselves or "sound alike." I see the PT as standing in sharp contrast with the OT (even if we look past the storytelling mistakes and just look at the big picture). The PT shows the fall, the OT shows the rise. The ST...was set off on the wrong foot by skipping way past some important stuff because MYSTERIES ARE HOW YOU TELL MOVIES, GUYS!!!!!!!11!!

No, just kidding. Honestly, I think it makes some sense to skip ahead, but I think it was incredibly jarring and off-putting, and TLJ didn't do anything to really fix that, but rather just said "That stuff's not really important. Let's focus on the now."

Basically, I think Johnson took what JJ left him and did what he was supposed to do -- in his view -- which is to tell a story that primarily focuses on the new central characters and especially Rey and Ben as juxtaposed with each other. I think the film is mainly about them and their relationship, and almost everything else is secondary to that....which is part of why I think people don't like it. The film didn't do enough (for them) to really explore the other characters in ways they liked. I think the "subvert expectations" thing went a little too far with the story of the fleet and the last stand at Crait, but...I'm ok with that IF it pays off what I think it could pay off down the road.

We'll see. I honestly think that TLJ will ultimately be judged much more as a middle chapter of an overall story than as a standalone film, but I love it as a standalone film.
Click to expand...

Here's the some of the rhyming going on.

TPM/ANH/TFA
A young hero character is found on a desert planet. The have unknowingly been chosen for greatness. The hero is discovered by a mentor. The mentor is killed by a bad guy. There's an attack by much smaller ships against a much larger target.

ATOC/ESB/TLJ.
A small rebel faction is hiding/on the run from a largerange faction. The young hero goes through up and downs of training and is left with emotional scars. The bad guy offers a hero to join the Dark Side. A revelation is revealed. The larger faction attacks the smaller rebel faction with walking tanks.

ROTS/ROTJ
(These don't rhyme as much) there's a fight in a throne room. The Emperor purposely offers himself as a target to a Jedi. And they feature the largest space battles of their respective trilogies.

So the rhyming in Star Wars isn't true rhyming, it's more of visual and action sequence call backs. Some of these are really cool and very subtle. . There's obvious ones like the asteroid sequences from ESB and ATOC. But some of the subtle ones like Ben's hood and cowel resembling his grandmother's. And his boots his grandfather's. Or the way Ben throws he cape from his shoulders, is similar to how Anakin does. And of course Luke and Anakin both wear a single black glove. The FO troopers marching into the old rebel base mirrors the Clones march on the Jedi temple.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

I posted this in the Rian Johnson new trilogy thread also,....I think there are VERY valid points here that shows LFL's lack of direction


J
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Yeah, basically the same thinking as in nearly all of my posts on this subject,so there is not much to disagree with EXCEPT:

"Ant Man and the Wasp" is actually currently under performing worldwide because it has not been released in China yet (24th August). "Ant Mans" China take was worth about $105 million by its finish so they are looking for about $125-130 million to make an end of run worldwide gross figure of about $600 million.

BUT heres the thing.

As a percentage of "Infinity Wars" BO of $2.046 billion its just 29% of the total.

Guess what percentage "Solo" was of "TLJ" ?

Its 29%.

Identical.

But nobody is running around claiming that Marvel has dropped the ball, or a fan boycott has destroyed the BO takings, though "Ant Man and the Wasp" is actually the first Marvel movie I have not gone to see at the cinema.

Why?

Because its not an essential part of the total story. For me it came out too close to "Infinity War" to hold my interest , and that movie had such a devasting (in a good way!) impact on me and my appreciation for the entire franchise arc I kind of didn't want to spoil the very rare feeling, at least not until the blu ray comes out.

I also wanted to wait until Xmas to fill in that mighty gap Marvel actually has left until the next release ,which is March 2019 with "Captain Marvel". I have no interest at all in "Venom" which isn't really related to the franchise anyway.

And this IS something that the studios need to recognise.

"Star Wars" actually started it with the OT, by making a trilogy of films in which the characters and their arc within a complex and growing story universe made the series more popular and interesting as it went along. Marvel gets that absolutely.

Generally ordinary cinema going people are not really interested in anything that does not do that. Its not a talking point, a newsworthy or twitterable item. Fans will support it but the rest? Not so much.

And heres something else KK particularly needs to consider. Marvel characters are attractive, and by that I don't mean just "pretty" or "handsome" (although that helps) its their actions and interactions that hold the audience interest, the way SW used to manage to do.

My kid sister always liked Han Solo because he was Harrison Ford. I felt kind of embarassed for my brother in law recently when she was gushing over MIchael B. Jordan in "Black Panther" at a family meal ,previously it was "Thor" who held her attention.And she used to be a big SW fan. She has not bothered with either "TLJ" or "Solo" based almost entirely on feedback from me and the fact nobody in either of those films really appealled to her.

But she loves John Wick and Deadpool.

Disney needs to understand (and I've said this before) that the likes of Star Wars movies are NOT for kids. Thats not who is going to see the likes of Marvel. Its for the more mature ,more interested, more willing to pay at the BO to see it generations of cinema audiences that have grown up with these films and want to see them.

Kids will enjoy them but they are still better off being served by cartoons and beyond that when they get access to the internet they will **** off and rather play something like "Fortknight" for hours on end with their friends rather than going to watch a boring movie.

I hope they can get this all back on track. It an utter waste of a good story universe if they don't.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Jaitea said:
I posted this in the Rian Johnson new trilogy thread also,....I think there are VERY valid points here that shows LFL's lack of direction

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU95A-oS4V0

J
Click to expand...

I don't know if they have a lack of direction. They just haven't planned every nitty-gritty detail. For instance the whole self exiled Luke on a island with Kira (Rey) showing up for training. Was mostly planned out before Rey was actually cast, and before TFA was filmed. It was Rian who knocked out the details of why Luke was self exiled.

And here's another little tide bit I just discovered. When Rey is being mind probed by Kylo in TFA he says "You imagine an ocean........I see it........I see the island." In TLJ Luke says to Rey "You've seen this place before" to which she answers "Only in dreams". I found that an interesting little connection that JJ set up, that Rian played of off. Incidentally the events of TLJ also show that Kylo must have learned the mind probed stuff from his uncle.

- - - Updated - - -

CutThumb said:
Yeah, basically the same thinking as in nearly all of my posts on this subject,so there is not much to disagree with EXCEPT:

"Ant Man and the Wasp" is actually currently under performing worldwide because it has not been released in China yet (24th August). "Ant Mans" China take was worth about $105 million by its finish so they are looking for about $125-130 million to make an end of run worldwide gross figure of about $600 million.

BUT heres the thing.

As a percentage of "Infinity Wars" BO of $2.046 billion its just 29% of the total.

Guess what percentage "Solo" was of "TLJ" ?

Its 29%.

Identical.

But nobody is running around claiming that Marvel has dropped the ball, or a fan boycott has destroyed the BO takings, though "Ant Man and the Wasp" is actually the first Marvel movie I have not gone to see at the cinema.

Why?

Because its not an essential part of the total story. For me it came out too close to "Infinity War" to hold my interest , and that movie had such a devasting (in a good way!) impact on me and my appreciation for the entire franchise arc I kind of didn't want to spoil the very rare feeling, at least not until the blu ray comes out.

I also wanted to wait until Xmas to fill in that mighty gap Marvel actually has left until the next release ,which is March 2019 with "Captain Marvel". I have no interest at all in "Venom" which isn't really related to the franchise anyway.

And this IS something that the studios need to recognise.

"Star Wars" actually started it with the OT, by making a trilogy of films in which the characters and their arc within a complex and growing story universe made the series more popular and interesting as it went along. Marvel gets that absolutely.

Generally ordinary cinema going people are not really interested in anything that does not do that. Its not a talking point, a newsworthy or twitterable item. Fans will support it but the rest? Not so much.

And heres something else KK particularly needs to consider. Marvel characters are attractive, and by that I don't mean just "pretty" or "handsome" (although that helps) its their actions and interactions that hold the audience interest, the way SW used to manage to do.

My kid sister always liked Han Solo because he was Harrison Ford. I felt kind of embarassed for my brother in law recently when she was gushing over MIchael B. Jordan in "Black Panther" at a family meal ,previously it was "Thor" who held her attention.And she used to be a big SW fan. She has not bothered with either "TLJ" or "Solo" based almost entirely on feedback from me and the fact nobody in either of those films really appealled to her.

But she loves John Wick and Deadpool.

Disney needs to understand (and I've said this before) that the likes of Star Wars movies are NOT for kids. Thats not who is going to see the likes of Marvel. Its for the more mature ,more interested, more willing to pay at the BO to see it generations of cinema audiences that have grown up with these films and want to see them.

Kids will enjoy them but they are still better off being served by cartoons and beyond that when they get access to the internet they will **** off and rather play something like "Fortknight" for hours on end with their friends rather than going to watch a boring movie.

I hope they can get this all back on track. It an utter waste of a good story universe if they don't.
Click to expand...

It's odd how Ant-Man and Wasp came through without hardly a word. Me and my friends wanted to go, and when we chose a weekend to go. To our surprise it wasn't playing anymore.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Joek3rr said:
I don't know if they have a lack of direction.
Click to expand...

It's true, trust me,....George did it that way, but he had a rough idea,.....LFL/Disney have no idea where they are going.......direction


J
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Jaitea said:
It's true, trust me,....George did it that way, but he had a rough idea,.....LFL/Disney have no idea where they are going.......direction

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fE0UrDWZGAk

J
Click to expand...

The Art of books tell a different story. Everything has been based off of George's story treatments. They form the basic outline for what they are doing. However everything has been shifted. Michael Arndt original wrote TFA very close to how George wanted it. But he concluded that he felt that Luke would better in the next film. As every time he showed up, he kinda up stages all the new people by just being there. So it was JJ and Lawrence Kasdan who rewrote TFA pushing the timeline back. So George's story treatment for 7 became the basis for 8. Naturally we'll never know how much they followed George's plans unless they release or talk about in more detail the story treatments.

Another thing that shows they were to some degree planning this out ahead of time. Solo was pitched by Kathleen and George before Lucasfilm was sold. The only way they were wanting to do that film is if Lawrence Kasdan agreed to write it. Which he happily did. A Solo film had been something he had wanted since writing ESB and ROTJ.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Joek3rr said:
The Art of books tell a different story. Everything has been based off of George's story treatments. They form the basic outline for what they are doing. However everything has been shifted. Michael Arndt original wrote TFA very close to how George wanted it. But he concluded that he felt that Luke would better in the next film. As every time he showed up, he kinda up stages all the new people by just being there. So it was JJ and Lawrence Kasdan who rewrote TFA pushing the timeline back. So George's story treatment for 7 became the basis for 8. Naturally we'll never know how much they followed George's plans unless they release or talk about in more detail the story treatments.

Another thing that shows they were to some degree planning this out ahead of time. Solo was pitched by Kathleen and George before Lucasfilm was sold. The only way they were wanting to do that film is if Lawrence Kasdan agreed to write it. Which he happily did. A Solo film had been something he had wanted since writing ESB and ROTJ.
Click to expand...

Yes.....we all know that......but each film, including Georges films have been written just as the previous have been finished

RJ ditched JJ's plan for the trilogy.....he was writing it before he had even seen TFA

That was a massive change in direction

J
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Jaitea said:
Yes.....we all know that......but each film, including Georges films have been written just as the previous have been finished

RJ ditched JJ's plan for the trilogy.....he was writing it before he had even seen TFA

That was a massive change in direction

J
Click to expand...

Well if he ditched JJ plan for George's plan, I'm okay with that. And yes he was writing TLJ before TFA came out. An unfortunate side effect of wanting to turn out a saga film every other year.

But back to the JJ ideas, what makes you think he ditched JJ plans? I'm curious to know.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Joek3rr said:
Well if he ditched JJ plan for George's plan, I'm okay with that. And yes he was writing TLJ before TFA came out. An unfortunate side effect of wanting to turn out a saga film every other year.

But back to the JJ ideas, what makes you think he ditched JJ plans? I'm curious to know.
Click to expand...

Ok I get it, you're toying with me

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=JJ+Abrams+plans+ditched+by+Rian+Johnson

Mind Trick.jpg

J
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Jaitea said:
Ok I get it, you're toying with me

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=JJ+Abrams+plans+ditched+by+Rian+Johnson

View attachment 837695

J
Click to expand...

So here's the thing. Aside from maybe Snoke having more of role I don't see how Rian ditched anything.

Did he ditch the identity of Rey's parents? I don't think so. Daisy Ridley said that she was surprised that was a question needing answering. She's said she felt that TFA already told people who her parents were.

And the big one is of course Luke. We know of only one thing that Rian changed, and that is that Luke had cut himself off from the Force. I honestly don't know why fans were surprised by Luke in TLJ. It was the in hindsight it was a logical continuation of what we got in TFA.

In TFA we are told that Luke went into hiding after a student turned against him and destroyed everything he was trying to do. Now, this is the important part, Luke went into hiding without telling anyone where he was going. This isn't like Obi-Wan or Yoda, where Bail Organa knew where they could be found. No, our hero Luke Skywalker had abandoned his friends. He didn't want anyone finding him.
And as people have pointed out this is rather uncharacteristic of Luke. So for Rain, he had to justify why Luke would have run away from his friends, he had to have something very very jarring traumatic happen to Luke. The only way that was going to happen is if Luke royally messed up. Which in this case is a triple failure, failing Ben, failing to protect his students, and being briefly tempted to kill Ben.

Once Luke is on the island there are only three options to go.
One is to have Luke return immediately. Which would have made Luke look very fickle and stupid.
The second option is to have to him remain on the island and never return, and never help
And the third options is to have Luke closed off for part of the movie and return to help and redeem himself. Which is what he got.

I actually would have liked a modified version of the second option. Have Luke remain on the island all of 8, then have him return in 9. The fans would have really hated it but the pay off in 9 would have been awesome!



And no I'm not toying with you. I wanted your opinion. Not someone else's.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Luke's presence in the story upstaged Rey because he's a better developed character and more interesting than her. Plus if he didn't want to be found why would he leave a map behind?

I've elaborated ad nauseum about this film so I don't want to get into it all over again and I'm not knocking your choice in loving the Last Jedi. I just strongly disagree with you.

Personally I think the sooner fans give up on the series the happier they will be. I know I am. Disney just needs to release a properly restored theatrical release and that is all I'm after at this point.
 
Last edited:
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Joek3rr said:
And no I'm not toying with you. I wanted your opinion. Not someone else's.
Click to expand...

There really is no need to reiterate what has been saiid to death on all these sites about the opened ended elements that JJ & LK laid down in TFA , whether it's my own view or someone else's

At the minute Star Wars is broken,....Disney are in crisis mode

J
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

George Lucas never wanted a remastered HiDef theatrical re-release of the OT. I have them all on VHS, and that has to be good enough. I think the THX version is as close as we'll get. I keep my eye out for a set of the OT on Laserdisc, no luck yet.

I didn't love the Last Jedi, but other than killing off Luke at the end, I didn't have much of a problem with his portrayal. I saw how he was and I saw myself in recent past. Consumed by depression and anxiety and feeling like a complete failure, wanting to be left alone to get busy dying. I understood, because I saw myself. That's how I know if I connect with a movie, seeing aspects of myself in the characters. His eventual redemption was also a reflection of myself, getting past the depression and so forth, to come back from the brink of death. So killing him didn't seem justified. That's what irked me about Luke. The rest of the movie was a let down, though I can sit through it if I turn my mind off and only half pay attention.

The worst part, I actually liked TFA, but TLJ ruined that for me too. Made it too easy to go back and point out the many flaws that I'm no longer willing or able to ignore. And Solo, well that was just boring. Would have much rather seen the Lord / Miller version, at least then we would have gotten Tagg and Bink.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Psab keel said:
Luke's presence in the story upstaged Rey because he's a better developed character and more interesting than her. Plus if he didn't want to be found why would he leave a map behind?

I've elaborated ad nauseum about this film so I don't want to get into it all over again and I'm not knocking your choice in loving the Last Jedi. I just strongly disagree with you.

Personally I think the sooner fans give up on the series the happier they will be. I know I am. Disney just needs to release a properly restored theatrical release and that is all I'm after at this point.
Click to expand...

He didn't leave a map behind. The resistance gets the map fragment, it's map to Ach-To, believed to be the location of the first Jedi Temple. They are assuming that's where he went. The rest was already told to be in possession by the Empire, and R2 acquired it at some point, I believe one the Death Star when he "interprets the entire imperial network".

And Disney has already said they will not be releasing the original theatrical versions. Like it or not, the way the films are today is what George wanted.
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Joek3rr said:
But back to the JJ ideas, what makes you think he ditched JJ plans? I'm curious to know.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure it was referenced many times before but here's what Daisy said:
"Here’s what I think I know. JJ (Abrams) wrote Episode VII, as well as drafts for VIII and IX. Then Rian Johnson arrived and wrote The Last Jedi entirely. I believe there was some sort of general consensus on the main lines of the trilogy, but apart from that, every director writes and realises his film in his own way. Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams met to discuss all of this, although Episode VIII is still his very own work. I believe Rian didn’t keep anything from the first draft of Episode VIII.".
 
Re: Kathleen Kennedy to step down from Lucasfilm?

Every film since 1983 has just been unnecessary filler so there isn't anything else to tell in my opinion. I didn't say that Disney will release a restored OT, I just said that's all I'm interested in. Whether it happens or not is irrelevant.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

bwayne64
Disney could sell Lucasfilm ?
25 26 27
Replies
520
Views
27,152
Mottrex
Mottrex
Tremas
Proto-Monty Python Sketch Show Discovered After Being Lost for 50 Years
Replies
3
Views
383
Treadwell
Treadwell
peterquill
Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves Tree cut down
Replies
18
Views
1,104
mattycsi
mattycsi
bwayne64
Flying Motorcycles from Gal 1980
Replies
0
Views
233
bwayne64
bwayne64
renaissance_man
Guide to The Orville book
Replies
0
Views
50
renaissance_man
renaissance_man
Back
Top