Question about the Iron Throne (dis)coloration/aging

Hello folks,

My first post here. I apologize if this is inappropriate to post this here.

I'm pondering building an Iron Throne replica. A real one, eventually. In the meantime I'm going to build a scale version (maybe 2' tall or so to start). I'll be using actual steel (probably aluminum for the full-size version due to the incredible weight). My questions are:

Does anyone have any ideas on how to mimic the screen version's coloration and aging on actual steel? To me, the swords would all be heavily oxidized (rusted) but they don't seem to be that reddish-brown on screen. The replica props I've seen (I have the 7" resin version) is basically a dark silvery color with what appears to be dark grey/black highlights. The guards on the swords appear to be bronze-ish?

I'm colorblind so I'm guessing here. Here's a picture of the screen version:



And the replica:



Beyond the coloration, you can see the swords are heavily dented and pitted. Any thoughts on how to achieve this? I was thinking some sort of etching effect (acid, electric? I've done both). Or maybe just pounding the hell out of each sword with a small hammer to create all the dents, then artificially aging to fill in the dents with a darker color to highlight them and really show the "age". I'd like to avoid painting them if at all possible. I want as authentic a distressing as possible. Plus, as I mentioned, being colorblind makes it really hard to paint things accurately.

I don't have any experience with these particular aspects so I figured I'd seek out some ideas. Many thanks in advance.

Dope

i'm sure they used paint, some oxidizing agent of some sort, and actually rusted parts on the real one.
however on the replica i'm sure that it's been painted flat black and then dry brushed with "rub 'n buff" or metallic paint.

welcome to the site!

and you should check out these glasses called "enchroma" the fix color blindness!

Welcome to the forum.
You can buy rust effect paints so it's quite easy to replicate, and the great thing is it will work on most materials.
http://www.sprayonrustpaint.co.uk/
Please post some photographs so we can see your progress.

ultraman said:

i'm sure they used paint, some oxidizing agent of some sort, and actually rusted parts on the real one.
however on the replica i'm sure that it's been painted flat black and then dry brushed with "rub 'n buff" or metallic paint.

welcome to the site!

and you should check out these glasses called "enchroma" the fix color blindness!

Click to expand...

Thank you for all of that, I'm going to have to look into everything you said. Especially the glasses!

Pro Mod said:

Welcome to the forum.
You can buy rust effect paints so it's quite easy to replicate, and the great thing is it will work on most materials.
http://www.sprayonrustpaint.co.uk/
Please post some photographs so we can see your progress.

Click to expand...

That should be handy, thanks. If I make the scale model out of steel it's easy to rust, but duplicating it with aluminum was one of my sticking points. That would be a great solution.

Dope

hay man...i know this is off topic on the prop but it's still on topic in a way.
being an artist myself i would freak out if i was color blind!
this is why i feel compelled to help out a fellow artist.....i really think you should find some enchroma glasses!
if only to wear them while you work....it would make a world of difference!
watch this video......this isn't a joke or fake.....it's real man!

put the kids ear muffs on it's got cussing in it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBbCsNS8nco

ultraman said:

hay man...i know this is off topic on the prop but it's still on topic in a way.
being an artist myself i would freak out if i was color blind!
this is why i feel compelled to help out a fellow artist.....i really think you should find some enchroma glasses!
if only to wear them while you work....it would make a world of difference!
watch this video......this isn't a joke or fake.....it's real man!

put the kids ear muffs on it's got cussing in it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBbCsNS8nco

Click to expand...

Wow. That is incredible.

They need to make these in contact lenses.

I took their test and unfortunately it says that my colorblindness is so bad that there's only about a 30% chance they'd help me. Not sure I want to drop $500 for those odds. But I did email them to see if they'd let me test them out.

Dope

Just got some rub n buff samples in and ordered the steel today. Might start on it this weekend. I'm finishing up a Lament Configuration too but it's almost done. Does anyone want to see progress pics or just pics of the throne once it's done?

Dope

I think the color on original throne may simulate forging and soldering, meaning heating of the steel, even the handles are still attached to the blades.
It's easy to see especially when you check the blades pattern all looking hammered and pressed together.
Forging also gives this kind of dark grey to bluish or brownish color, and it explains why handles could have different color, because not made from steel.
However there is a big mistake in the original throne design, because a correct forging temperature may melt the handles, depending on what bronze alloy they are made of, but the designers may not me aware of this, as they are probably not aware a damascus pattern valyrian steel can't be produced by melting and casting...
I would suggest you if you do a painting, to paint with metal color then overlay with several grey-bluish brownish color together some using spray, other by adding clear layers to enhance the reliefs.
You will have to protect the handles, even I think some colors will have to be on both, handles and blades, to make a similar patina and aging.
Of course if you use real steel blades, just forge them to orange color lol

I saw one in a show near here (France), it was just some toy swords, plastic and metal, cheap stuff, roughly painted in grey color, on a white plastic garden chair, but it made quite good illusion, and it was very funny, people appeciated .

If you use metal, please take care some swrd replicas are made from alloy, with chrome finish, and won't bent easily without damages, and chrome won't keep the painting for a long time, it also can't be heated, so if you want to make from replica swords, please use iron-steel-stainless steel.
You can also buy rough iron tapes and create forging effectn but it will be difficult to add the handles, even I think it can be the best way to get quick and especially accurate finish for a reasonnable cost.

parfaitelumiere said:

I think the color on original throne may simulate forging and soldering, meaning heating of the steel, even the handles are still attached to the blades.
It's easy to see especially when you check the blades pattern all looking hammered and pressed together.
Forging also gives this kind of dark grey to bluish or brownish color, and it explains why handles could have different color, because not made from steel.
However there is a big mistake in the original throne design, because a correct forging temperature may melt the handles, depending on what bronze alloy they are made of, but the designers may not me aware of this, as they are probably not aware a damascus pattern valyrian steel can't be produced by melting and casting...
I would suggest you if you do a painting, to paint with metal color then overlay with several grey-bluish brownish color together some using spray, other by adding clear layers to enhance the reliefs.
You will have to protect the handles, even I think some colors will have to be on both, handles and blades, to make a similar patina and aging.
Of course if you use real steel blades, just forge them to orange color lol

I saw one in a show near here (France), it was just some toy swords, plastic and metal, cheap stuff, roughly painted in grey color, on a white plastic garden chair, but it made quite good illusion, and it was very funny, people appeciated .

If you use metal, please take care some swrd replicas are made from alloy, with chrome finish, and won't bent easily without damages, and chrome won't keep the painting for a long time, it also can't be heated, so if you want to make from replica swords, please use iron-steel-stainless steel.
You can also buy rough iron tapes and create forging effectn but it will be difficult to add the handles, even I think it can be the best way to get quick and especially accurate finish for a reasonnable cost.

Click to expand...

You've got some good points. Brass/bronze/copper and similar alloys all melt way earlier than steel but meh. I give them a little leeway because we're applying these rules to a fictional land and a fictional time where they may not be using any of those metals. Or they could be infused with old god magic that makes the pommels and handguards stay intact under intense dragon fire

I am making my 1/4 scale model out of mild/carbon steel and everything will be hand-made. Hot rolled A36 to be specific. So I may be able to get my desired patinas "naturally". I am going to have to do lots of trial and error testing for sure. They will probably be hammered in a random pattern by me (perhaps I'll grab some old hammers and beat them up, or I'll just hammer the steel against some gravel), and perhaps rusted/pitted with some salt water and hydrogen peroxide and time. Muriatic acid is good for promoting rust too. The handguards will probably also be mild steel and will likely be very simple and not as intricate as the models above. It would be nearly impossible time-wise for one person to create 300-400 swords from scratch and make them that detailed. The handguards will probably be a simple straight piece of metal welded perpendicularly to the blade, perhaps with a small steel ball welded on as a pommel. Most of the swords do not have intricate handles, the ones that form the arms of the chair and the back of the chair do however (about 50 of them I'd venture). I'll have to see how it looks. I might put a little more attention to detail to those particular swords.

Honestly I'm starting with some rough ideas and seeing how it turns out. It almost certainly won't be close to as detailed as the above pictures but it will look pretty good just the same. I think. May require some tool investments too, I have propane and mapp gas torches but may need an actual oxy-acetylene torch. Will definitely need an OA torch for the full-size version if I ever make it. But that's another whole can of worms, I'd probably need someone to commission me for the full size version. I'd estimate the full size version would cost a couple thousand in materials and take at least a year to make. Not something I'm willing to do just for giggles.

Dope

I would definitely like to see progress pics as your building

you will more need a stake to forge, without it will be hard to heat, you can create a tunnel using hollow bricks , the inside will be round shaped so more efficient for heating.
Then you need a strong piece of metal under you hammer for efficient forging effect.

Work has commenced on my mini Iron Throne. It is ~1/4 scale and stands at exactly 24" tall.






The "pitting" effect was done via an old hammer that I made about 20 ugly tack welds on, and then ground down slightly smoother. Creates sort of rounded craters. These will suffice for the sort of heavy pitting you get from decades (centuries I suppose) of rust. The final product will be heavily rusted and all that but this is just for the heavy pitting that is hard to reproduce naturally.

Many, many hours left to go...

Dope

Not much progress this weekend since half of my time was spent doing other things but...





Dope

You would find thinner steel for this project, to get a less chunky look on the blades, the tips are also much sharper.
You can also try to make the grooves, and make different designs, to simulate different kind of blades and origins.
Otherwise, it will be really cool once finished, and the 1/1 scale will be awesome.

This is quite an ambitious project! I can't wait to see how it comes out.

parfaitelumiere said:

You would find thinner steel for this project, to get a less chunky look on the blades, the tips are also much sharper.
You can also try to make the grooves, and make different designs, to simulate different kind of blades and origins.
Otherwise, it will be really cool once finished, and the 1/1 scale will be awesome.

Click to expand...

You're absolutely right, the blades are definitely too thick. However it was a matter of logistics and economics with this choice. I have 300' linear feet of flat stock (1/2" x 1/8") which is the thinnest bar stock that you can buy. That's what I'm making all the swords from. To get any thinner, I'd have to use sheet metal and cut out each sword individually. This would increase fabrication time by a factor of about 5 and/or the cost exponentially as well. It would be perfect if I had a plasma (or even laser) table to CNC cut out hundreds of swords out of 4'x8' sheet metal but I don't (nor do I have the $10k for a table).

Ideally the 1/8" thick swords would be perfect for a 1/2 scale project so yes, these are about twice as thick as they need to be. Oh well. If only I had unlimited money and time!

If I make more of these I may explore the sheet metal route and make templates to use my plasma cutter with to assist with making numerous swords. Depends on how long this takes me, how much it costs, and if anyone wants to buy some of my creations. Having said that, I doubt it'd be profitable to make more of these, with the time and materials invested it would cost a lot for the buyer. I estimate I'll have $250 in materials alone in this by the time I'm done. At least.

Dope

yes this kind of project gets quickly expensive, especially when you need metal, I spend lots of money just for the meterils for my harlock gravity saber.
You can check some metal rolls too, thinner, maybe enough to simulate a ¼" blade thickness, and light and cheap enough to cost a bit less.

Here is what I would think about:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/White-Steel-Corset-Boning-1-2-10-Yard-Roll-Corset-Making-Supplies/361328338073?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D33872%26meid%3D7cc4f3a3b3054a62a4e1a74ef76f287b%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D361328347878

Week 4 of 1/4 scale Iron Throne build.

Not a ton of work completed, it now has 52 swords on it. But I mass produced 109 more that are 90% ready so next week should see some good progress.






Meanwhile, two hours later I still have numb hands from all the grinding and hammering.

Dope

Weekend 5 progress pics.






It's coming along, I'd say around halfway completed now. I figure 10-12 weeks of work and then I gotta age it. Starting to think I'll use some sort of black rust to make it look a little more badass.

Dope