Is Disney/LFL incapable of making anything new?
- Thread starter Mr Webber
- Start date
I liked parts of the EU. There was a lot of good and an equal, if not more, that were awful. I would agree with that decision more if they brought in some of the good, which Dave Filoni has done here and there. I was hoping the movie crews would have done more of that when they would say "We need a new bomber." Then they would go through to the Story group and they would put out examples they already owned from the EU. Almost anything in there would be better than 90% of the ship "designs" from the sequels. Instead they let, apparently, a director pick (and design - that giant Dorito dreadnaught ship...) which ships to use. That made sense when Lucas did it because he knew SW, whereas RJ doesn't.
Anyway I think they can get the ship back on the Hyperspace lane, but they need people who can write and who can design. From what people who have seen the TFA/TLJ concept books have said, there are good designs, just people with bad ideas picking which they will use.
Anyway I think they can get the ship back on the Hyperspace lane, but they need people who can write and who can design. From what people who have seen the TFA/TLJ concept books have said, there are good designs, just people with bad ideas picking which they will use.
sztriki
Sr Member
No, it was because of choppyness, gaping plot holes and character motivations, length, structure and tone issues due to excessive misfiring comedy. I don't think there was too much new stuff in it.
matty matt
Sr Member
I'm pretty neutral about TLJ, but I'd like to hear about some of these plot holes people keep mentioning. Seriously. Can anyone be specific?
sztriki
Sr Member
They’ve been discussed to death in the TLJ thread. I’m not sure if it would be worth derailing this thread and turning that into the same mudwrestling that’s going on there.
Cephus
Master Member
I've always treated extended universes as optional. It's all fanfic. Unless it's featured in an officially sanctioned movie, it didn't really happen. So I don't care if Chewbacca died in a book, it isn't real unless it's shown on screen. It's the only rational way to look at any of this.
Mr Webber
Master Member
As mentioned, theres over 120 pages of them in TLJ thread.
sztriki
Sr Member
Seriously, TLJ is starting to become like a BMW...do you need to be an arrogant bellend to like one or liking it makes you an arrogant bellend?
Please do educate us close-minded fools and rabid frothed mouthed haters about this:
- The main plot hinges on a slow chase because the Empire can't catch up with the Rebels, but the Rebels can't outrun them. So they are moving at the exact same speed. You can't seriously think that it is plausible for these ships to maintain the same distance for that long, especially if we go back and see that Star Destroyers easily catch or keep up with the Tantive and the Falcon which are much smaller and more nimble and that there are different kinds of ships in both fleets. And all of them are moving at the exact same speed. Right.
- How come the Star Destroyer can't shoot at the Rebels during the chase, certainly not because of range, because they shoot at the escape pods which are even further away and the rebel cruiser was pretty well damaged by simple fighters, both lasers and torpedoes so there goes tha shield argument. Also, the rebel fleet is literally 3 ships, can the Empire not send a few ships further away and simply trap them between the two fleets?
- Laura Dern not telling anyone that there is a plan. This leads to quite an amount of people mutinying against her. Not just one weirdo, there is an actual mutiny so it's not just that Poe had issues with her. Which leads to the "captured" Dern just awkwardly standing in the middle of a hangar with guns pointed at her instead of being imprisoned like it was in a stupid Saturday morning cartoon show. As a consequence the Las Vegas planet plot is enabled which takes up a large chunk of the film and leads to practically nothing. Also, given the circumstances and the information that was available to him in the movie Poe Dameron pretty much made the right decision everywhere, yet the script wants to paint him as the idiot who needs to learn...what? How to follow orders without questions...? Because he needed an arc that was completely unnecessary based on his character in TFA...?
- Luke's motivations are all over the place. He went into an island to die because he felt responsible and thought he needs to break the cycle and in the process of wanting to die he became a space Bear Grylls. The only thing his seclusion achieved is that darkness took over big time. Then he was willing to give Rey a couple lessons and gave up pretty much instantly when she didn't follow the dogmatic Jedi view that Luke himself has rejected instead of giving any real guidance. Then when everything goes pear-shaped he wants to burn the Jedi texts as if those had anything to do with Rey leaving him to meet up with Ren. Then Yoda himself burns those texts and Luke freaks out but he was just about to do that anyway.
- His appearence at the end is again all over the place. He appeared, said he needs to face Ren, winks at 3PO and goes out. Apparently he was gonna buy them time to escape. At that point as far as everyone knew there was only one way out of that cave and that was the front door. If Luke knew of a backdoor he really should have told them. Short on that, what was his original plan, just appear, fool Ren then die and let whatever happen to the rest? Because he didn't tell anyone anything about what is gonna go down and according to everyone he knew exactly that he was going to die after this. Then by the time the showdown happened the rebels already found out that there's a way out and they didn't need Luke for that at all, only the Pokemon foxes. So Luke had very little to do with the rebels escaping, he bought them like 5 minutes of time. Then he fools Ren and defies the whole First Order, without practically anyone seeing it, because his friends are fleeing the scene. But that's okay, because he escaped the scene too unscathed because his powers are way over Ren's and Ren can't hurt him. And then he just dies. So how is the entire galaxy reignited by hope now that a legendary Jedi master died due to a mind trick and nobody saw it? And what was the plan laid out it Luke's head about how this showdown would go...?
These are the main plot driving things or main pay-off points in the end, I could go into nitpicking like how did Leia get back fro mthe ruined bridge without an airlock, but those are nitpicky.
Now, can anyone tell me what was so inventive and new about TLJ? That might be a bit more on-topic in this thread.
Please do educate us close-minded fools and rabid frothed mouthed haters about this:
- The main plot hinges on a slow chase because the Empire can't catch up with the Rebels, but the Rebels can't outrun them. So they are moving at the exact same speed. You can't seriously think that it is plausible for these ships to maintain the same distance for that long, especially if we go back and see that Star Destroyers easily catch or keep up with the Tantive and the Falcon which are much smaller and more nimble and that there are different kinds of ships in both fleets. And all of them are moving at the exact same speed. Right.
- How come the Star Destroyer can't shoot at the Rebels during the chase, certainly not because of range, because they shoot at the escape pods which are even further away and the rebel cruiser was pretty well damaged by simple fighters, both lasers and torpedoes so there goes tha shield argument. Also, the rebel fleet is literally 3 ships, can the Empire not send a few ships further away and simply trap them between the two fleets?
- Laura Dern not telling anyone that there is a plan. This leads to quite an amount of people mutinying against her. Not just one weirdo, there is an actual mutiny so it's not just that Poe had issues with her. Which leads to the "captured" Dern just awkwardly standing in the middle of a hangar with guns pointed at her instead of being imprisoned like it was in a stupid Saturday morning cartoon show. As a consequence the Las Vegas planet plot is enabled which takes up a large chunk of the film and leads to practically nothing. Also, given the circumstances and the information that was available to him in the movie Poe Dameron pretty much made the right decision everywhere, yet the script wants to paint him as the idiot who needs to learn...what? How to follow orders without questions...? Because he needed an arc that was completely unnecessary based on his character in TFA...?
- Luke's motivations are all over the place. He went into an island to die because he felt responsible and thought he needs to break the cycle and in the process of wanting to die he became a space Bear Grylls. The only thing his seclusion achieved is that darkness took over big time. Then he was willing to give Rey a couple lessons and gave up pretty much instantly when she didn't follow the dogmatic Jedi view that Luke himself has rejected instead of giving any real guidance. Then when everything goes pear-shaped he wants to burn the Jedi texts as if those had anything to do with Rey leaving him to meet up with Ren. Then Yoda himself burns those texts and Luke freaks out but he was just about to do that anyway.
- His appearence at the end is again all over the place. He appeared, said he needs to face Ren, winks at 3PO and goes out. Apparently he was gonna buy them time to escape. At that point as far as everyone knew there was only one way out of that cave and that was the front door. If Luke knew of a backdoor he really should have told them. Short on that, what was his original plan, just appear, fool Ren then die and let whatever happen to the rest? Because he didn't tell anyone anything about what is gonna go down and according to everyone he knew exactly that he was going to die after this. Then by the time the showdown happened the rebels already found out that there's a way out and they didn't need Luke for that at all, only the Pokemon foxes. So Luke had very little to do with the rebels escaping, he bought them like 5 minutes of time. Then he fools Ren and defies the whole First Order, without practically anyone seeing it, because his friends are fleeing the scene. But that's okay, because he escaped the scene too unscathed because his powers are way over Ren's and Ren can't hurt him. And then he just dies. So how is the entire galaxy reignited by hope now that a legendary Jedi master died due to a mind trick and nobody saw it? And what was the plan laid out it Luke's head about how this showdown would go...?
These are the main plot driving things or main pay-off points in the end, I could go into nitpicking like how did Leia get back fro mthe ruined bridge without an airlock, but those are nitpicky.
Now, can anyone tell me what was so inventive and new about TLJ? That might be a bit more on-topic in this thread.
mattycsi
Master Member
CT1138
Sr Member
The First Order has limited resources. Imagine 8 destroyers being escort craft for the larger carrier. This flagship also happens to hold the presidency, and all the leadership. You protect the carrier at all costs, even if that means prolonging the fight to do so. Unlike Poe's strategy, which cost ships and lives, the First Order is using the same strategy the Empire employed via Death Squadron. In ESB, the commander (Vader) was on board the command ship (the Executor) while the other, smaller, Star Destroyers surrounded the Executor and refused to break formation even if that meant allowing Rebel ships to escape. They could not afford to allow the command ship to be compromised. The only times the fleet was allowed to break formation (besides during Ozzel's stupidity) was to allow the Executor room to jump to hyperspace for Bespin and during its attempt to intercept the Falcon, and during the latter, two Destroyers collided with one another.
Because they're at a far enough range to where their turbolasers are ineffective against the Resistance's shields. They literally explain this in the movie. Imagine being so far away from something (because this is how space works. It's vast, if you needed to be reminded of that) that when you shoot it, the bullet just sorta bounces off of it. You shoot a cannonball at it, but again, the distance is so great that the projectile just stops at the shield. As for why they didn't jump ahead of the Resistance fleet? IDK. There's a lot of stupid fleet decisions in the OT, too. But those seem to always get a pass... for some reason. :rolleyes
Holdo is a rear admiral, she doesn't have to explain squat to anybody but her fellow officers. Just become some ace pilot comes up and starts demanding to know what's going on, doesn't give said ace pilot clearance to the information. That's how it is in the military. You shut up and follow the last given order. Poe's last given order was to shut up and remain at his post. Poe's the one at fault here for his little escapade, not Holdo. When you question orders, people get killed. Like during Poe's little stunt against the Dreadnought. His orders were to protect the bombers, not to take out the dreadnought. In defying orders he got goot soldiers killed, and rightfully deserved his demotion.
Luke was sick of the Jedi business, but figured he wasn't going to get rid of Rey unless he gave in a little. In the end of it all, he sees Rey making the same mistakes he did (running off and not completing her training, embracing the Dark Side, etc), and once again goes back to sulking. As he's talking to Yoda, he has a change of heart about destroying the Jedi Order, and Yoda admonishes Luke, telling him that the future of the Jedi Order doesn't lie in dusty old books and dogma, but in the hope and acceptance for the future that Rey has.
The whole point was for Luke to make an appearance that he was out there fighting the First Order. The Resistance didn't need to see him being struck down, or dueling Kylo Ren. They needed legendary Luke Skywalker. The Resistance needed only the hope that Luke Skywalker could provide, not the defeat he would be obviously unable to give.
Well, it did manage to anger fanboys who can't let go of the past.
PantheraGem
Sr Member
A long time ago....
Mr Webber
Master Member
This is totally in the wrong thread dont you think?
