The Character
New Member
Totally agree with Cutthumb on this .. exact same feeling from me ...
Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)
- Thread starter dbuck
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kristen jones
Master Member
I wish there was a "love" option.
This makes very good points.
And look.. I get it. We are never going to win over those of you who don't like it, and I agree that's fine.
I just think this video goes a long way toward showing that--just as you all have your valid reasons for disliking it--we also have our valid reasons for liking it.
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JoMamma_Smurf
Master Member
You know what this movie made me do?? LOVE REVENGE OF THE SITH!!
I have a new appreciation for it.... It really is the best of the prequels. I find it to be a far better film than TLJ. Think about this for a second. In TLJ there is not a single lightsaber duel. Another new low for a Star Wars movie.
I have a new appreciation for it.... It really is the best of the prequels. I find it to be a far better film than TLJ. Think about this for a second. In TLJ there is not a single lightsaber duel. Another new low for a Star Wars movie.
astroboy
Master Member
I totally love ROTS now.
You know what was great about infinity war? Because of it's payoff, it made the other films better. It connected a lot of dots. I even watched "the first avenger" the other night, and it's now better.
The last Jedi doesn't do this. It actually tears things down. I didn't like TFA much before but now it's way worse. Because the seeds it planted were wasted.
You know what bugs me? Abrams didn't have the sense to build our new characters into a "fellowship". Rey and Poe never even share screen time. And that broken relationship lasted through the entirety of TLJ.
Imagine is Leia and han didn't meet until the last scene in ESB.
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joshvanrad
Sr Member
I just think it's such a waste of narrative potential to separate the old guard and the new into two completely separate camps. It would have worked a lot better if they would have used Han's death as the catalyst to unite our new heroes with Luke and Leia, have them battle it out side by side, and have our new heroes begin to outshine the old heroes after they've earned the reward at the end of their arc.
robn1
Master Member
Nah, you gotta stamp out the past and kill it. The new generation don't have to earn anything, they're privileged now.
CT1138
Sr Member
While I do agree with wishing for a more solid fellowship between the characters, I must point out that Rey isn't a point of a love triangle in this trilogy like Leia was for the OT.
Ironic coming from somebody with Shatner as his avatar.
Bones_68
Sr Member
Totally agree. I think the biggest failing of the new trilogy was that it missed the cinematic opportunity of a lifetime by not "getting the band back together one last time" before passing the torch. TFA should have been 70% focused on the original cast and 30% on the new characters. Wrap things up properly with the old cast and then let the new folks shine in the following two movies.
Hamill once suggested in an interview that he thought the ideal entrance for Luke would have been at the end of TFA, during the fight between Finn, Rey and Kylo. There's that moment after Rey and Finn have been essentially bested and Kylo reaches out to "force grab" Rey's saber from the snow. Hamill said that as he was reading the script, he assumed the saber would fly through the air and land in Luke's hand.
Can you imagine it? That would have been one of the most rousing moments in movie history.
It would have but it also would have undercut the character of Rey, she never would have had the opportunity to discover it's The Force that's inside her, guiding her, as she did when Kylo Reminded her.
astroboy
Master Member
https://www.theguardian.com/film/20...nfinity-war-but-hated-star-wars-the-last-jedi
Infinity war = good
The last Jedi = bad
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Infinity war = good
The last Jedi = bad
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Bones_68
Sr Member
I know, Bryan, I get that part of the argument but I still think they could have made it work if they had chosen that path from the very beginning. Rey's potential could have been glimpsed in episode 7 and fully explored in the next two movies.
I just think that with a series this unique, and after a 35 year hiatus (for the OT characters), the writers had an obligation to find a way to make it work.
Yeah, I get that instinct but when JJ and Kasdan got the Arendt treatment they said every time they brought in Luke it shut down the new characters. I do think there was a top level story group decision that the new characters receive priority and the OT characters a supporting role, all the participants, including Mark acknowledge that was their marching orders. We can debate the merits of that decision but it was made and it's how the films are moving forward. Personally, I like the new characters and appreciate the OT crew helping them along the way, I never needed another Luke moment. Others will feel differently, clearly.
Bones_68
Sr Member
Yeah, I get that instinct but when JJ and Kasdan got the Arendt treatment they said every time they brought in Luke it shut down the new characters. I do think there was a top level story group decision that the new characters receive priority and the OT characters a supporting role, all the participants, including Mark acknowledge that was their marching orders. We can debate the merits of that decision but it was made and it's how the films are moving forward. Personally, I like the new characters and appreciate the OT crew helping them along the way, I never needed another Luke moment. Others will feel differently, clearly.
Fair enough. I doubt it will ever happen, but it would be interesting to see Arndt's outline someday.
It would, or even better GL's initial treatments. We know a little about them but it's thin. Disney is very unlikely to ever publish any of that.
robn1
Master Member
I don't get your point. Are you saying I didn't earn the avatar?
PantheraGem
Sr Member
Luke is still shutting down the new characters. Now more than ever. Even if he wasn't doing it in the movies, he's definitely dominating the discussion outside of them.
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sztriki
Sr Member
Mmmm, I'm with Bryan on this one TBH. When I first saw the movie in the theatre I thought there would be a green lightsaber igniting in the background during a fateful moment there or that the blue saber will fly to Luke, and in the back of my head there was a little thought that did not want that. Because the scene is really well constructed as it is, by that time we are full-on with these 3 new characters, we know exactly what they've been through, what's inside their heads, why they're fighting each other...by that point I really was won over by the characters and it would indeed have taken the momentum away if Luke showed up. This is why I didn't like the TLJ fight scene (or TPM duel for instance). Our heroes are just fighting...stuff. They're doing the boss-level fight, there's no emotional impact of the fight itself. The TFA duel has so much emotion and character-work going on, I like how it was built up. Moving forwards however, see below...
This. The entire premise of TLJ is to kill off the past and move on to something new. Yet, the very core of the entire story, the culmination and all important beats are Luke. The movie is about Luke's journey. About Luke's past, his current state and his return to "glory". Rey is pretty marginal. The rest is very much a filler. The movie tries to twist, change, alter the Luke character hoping to tone him down, but at the same time it still puts him out in the front, centre, he's under the bonnet, he is the engine of the entire movie. And even in this beaten, smeared and odd state Luke outshines and takes over everything every second he's on screen. I just don't get how disjointed this concept is.
I'm okay with having him as a plot device in TFA to get the new characters introduced. Fine. But then it falls on the floor in-between two chairs, coz the story neither keeps him on the margin and develops the new characters enough to make up for keeping Luke on the margin nor does it let Luke really shine and reach the character's full potential.
Nevermind, he just likes to call people names.
PantheraGem
Sr Member
As we hurtle toward Episode IX, the new characters will be thought of and discussed less and less, and the fate of Luke will be discussed more and more. I'm right in this, even if some don't want me to be.
Bones_68
Sr Member
Well, it's very possible I'm too steeped in nostalgia at this point to see clearly, but I absolutely wanted a moment like that for Luke. Some might argue we got it during the "force projection" scene in TLJ but that doesn't cut it for me. It comes too late and feels shoe-horned in. And the fact that he's not even actually there on Crait adds another layer of "Yoink! We fooled you!" to the whole thing.
So, I still think that moment in woods would have been a pretty great entry point for Luke to become part of the action — an active member of the story instead of the passive, reluctant non-entity we get in TLJ.
And remember, the hype building up to the release of TFA was not really about the new characters. How could it be, we had no attachment to them at that point. The unprecedented tidal wave of excitement and anticipation was mostly built on a foundation of nostalgia to see our old OT friends back in action. Disney/Lucasfilm very intentionally stoked that premise. I don't think they did a very good job of delivering on it.
No, I don’t think that will be the case at all. I think the discussion about Luke will pivot to his potential participation in IX and anticipation of that.
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