Blade Runner 2049 (Post-release)

So, I've put off seeing this film because as a major fan of the original, I didn't want to see it tarnished in some way because of this. I was also angry that I thought I heard some similar synth-type score over part of a trailer, and I feared a lame retread.

I still know nothing about it, but now I'm getting curious. Being a child of the 80's and forever embracing the tonal qualities that went with its films, am I going to like this?

Only one way to find out....

Keycube said:

am I going to like this?

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Treadwell said:

I get the baseline thing, but Joshi being mad at him for failing it was a bit weird. It's not something one can control. Either you pass or you don't.
Concerned for him, sure. Pissed at him... wtf

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He can control his emotions up to a point - that's part of what was great about Gosling's performance IMO, that he was able to convey how K was having to keep his emotions constantly in check (and occasionally failing - the fight with Sapper and at Ana's lab) due to the consequences for him if he failed a baseline. By the time of the second test, his whole world as he knew it had fallen apart. Joshi didn't know about any of that - all she knew is he was supposed to be doing his mission and he was picked up outside an upgrade centre and might be'going 'rogue'. She's only mad at him until he confirms that he had done what she asked,, and she is then relieved and becomes more concerned for his situation.

Keycube said:

So, I've put off seeing this film because as a major fan of the original, I didn't want to see it tarnished in some way because of this. I was also angry that I thought I heard some similar synth-type score over part of a trailer, and I feared a lame retread.

I still know nothing about it, but now I'm getting curious. Being a child of the 80's and forever embracing the tonal qualities that went with its films, am I going to like this?

Click to expand...

The music from the trailer was a reworking of the original score - that composer was removed and replaced by Zimmer and Wallfisch a couple of months before release. Their score is still synth-based (and the Yamaha CS80 plays a large part in it), but has a far heavier and more oppressive atmosphere than Vangelis' score for the original (though they do quote his score for one key scene)

The original is my favourite film too - I've owned all the versions since my first VHS in 1987, and have watched it well over 100 times over the years. I too was very worried right up until I heard Mark Kermode's (BBC) review. He is also a big fan, and made a documentary for Channel 5 in the UK about the original that made it onto some versions of the DVD.
He was also worried until about 20 minutes in, when he realised they had got the tone and pacing right and he loved the film. Based on that I went to see it, and wasn't disappointed - I ended up seeing it 5 times at the cinema.

Okay, I watched it for the first time last night. PLEASE indulge what may be some stupid questions...

So, since no two replicants can have the same DNA... was it already known by Wallace years ago that Rachel had a child, and K was given that same DNA as the missing child as part of a random accident, or so that hopefully it would raise a red flag one day (which it did), and K would find the child so that Wallace could piece together the procreation puzzle? Or was that just simply all part of the "scrambled records" bit spoken by Deckard?

AND/OR...was there a hint of this already known by Yoshi (including the DNA peculiarity), complete with rumor in regard to some connection with the protein farm, and K was specifically sent there to be the one to investigate, and thus, find the child for the police (which he also did)?

I guess I'm confused by what seems like coincidental timing; on a "random call" to the protein farm, K goes and sees - at the last minute, inexplicably (I mean, he could have parked anywhere) - the little flower, which leads us to the box, the serial number, the piano key, etc...were these all memory implants of some sort as well, that have now been (intentionally or not) "triggered" (as part of a plan)? Because simultaneously, Wallace is consumed with replicant procreation; is he making this speech and birthing prototypes every day? Because otherwise, why on this day? If Wallace wasn't a part of an intentional DNA snafu with K that I mentioned previously, was there a mole inside the police department that tipped off Wallace that replicant procreation might now be a thing?

Gah. I get really taken aback with "coincidence" vs. "random moment in time" stuff that, when done well, is really just life playing out with things that LOOK like coincidence. I'm sure there's something I just missed that you folks can help me clear up. Thanks!

Keycube said:

Okay, I watched it for the first time last night. PLEASE indulge what may be some stupid questions...

So, since no two replicants can have the same DNA... was it already known by Wallace years ago that Rachel had a child, and K was given that same DNA as the missing child as part of a random accident, or so that hopefully it would raise a red flag one day (which it did), and K would find the child so that Wallace could piece together the procreation puzzle? Or was that just simply all part of the "scrambled records" bit spoken by Deckard?

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It's the latter. The only connection K has to Rachael, Deckard & Ana is having Ana's (real) implanted memory. It wasn't his DNA in the database, it was a corrupted copy of Ana's that was used to create a dummy male record by Deckard and the resistance to throw anyone who came looking off Ana's trail. It could be argued that Ana used that memory as an implant for motives of her own (she may have a desire to find her real parents).

Wallace presumably knew Rachael was special from the remains of Tyrell's records (her serial number reveals her to be a Nexus 7, which didn't exist outside Tyrell's labs), which is why Luv was alerted when K brought her DNA in for identification. The replicant underground all knew the story of Deckard and Rachael's baby, so I'm sure the information would have found it's way back to Wallace if the detail of her having a working reproductive system wasn't still in Tyrell's records.

AND/OR...was there a hint of this already known by Yoshi (including the DNA peculiarity), complete with rumor in regard to some connection with the protein farm, and K was specifically sent there to be the one to investigate, and thus, find the child for the police (which he also did)?

I guess I'm confused by what seems like coincidental timing; on a "random call" to the protein farm, K goes and sees - at the last minute, inexplicably (I mean, he could have parked anywhere) - the little flower, which leads us to the box, the serial number, the piano key, etc...were these all memory implants of some sort as well, that have now been (intentionally or not) "triggered" (as part of a plan)? Because simultaneously, Wallace is consumed with replicant procreation; is he making this speech and birthing prototypes every day? Because otherwise, why on this day? If Wallace wasn't a part of an intentional DNA snafu with K that I mentioned previously, was there a mole inside the police department that tipped off Wallace that replicant procreation might now be a thing?

Gah. I get really taken aback with "coincidence" vs. "random moment in time" stuff that, when done well, is really just life playing out with things that LOOK like coincidence. I'm sure there's something I just missed that you folks can help me clear up. Thanks!

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K was dispatched to the protein farm because Sapper Morton was a wanted rogue replicant. He had been identified by an informer in the '2048: Nowhere To Run' short film

This then starts a chain of events due to K doing his job - he's a detective (and has probably been genetically optimised for the job). The flower on Rachael's grave was the first link in the chain - the environment has degraded so much that any flora is a very rare thing to see. K notices it while sitting in his car which then leads him to notice the carving on the tree and it continues from there (the date on the tree would also have got him intrigued personally as it's the same date that's carved on the horse in his memory).

Joshi didn't know about the baby before the discovery at the farm. She will know there is a replicant resistance and what they are capable of (see the 'Blackout 2022' short film that was released before the film).
When she gets the seemingly impossible news of a replcant-born child, she realises what the consequences would be for both sides and so dispatches K to clean up the mess before news got out, It's strongly implied in the first film that Tyrell has links to the police (they do his dirty work for him), and as Wallace is even more powerful than Tyrell was I imagine he knows about Rachael's discovery from the police systems (K actually helps Wallace in that regard by taking Rachael's DNA to be checked out)

buzby said:

This then starts a chain of events due to K doing his job - he's a detective (and has probably been genetically optimised for the job). The flower on Rachael's grave was the first link in the chain - the environment has degraded so much that any flora is a very rare thing to see. K notices it while sitting in his car which then leads him to notice the carving on the tree and it continues from there (the date on the tree would also have got him intrigued personally as it's the same date that's carved on the horse in his memory). about the baby before the discovery at the farm. She will know there is a replicant resistance and what they are capable of (see the 'Blackout 2022' short film that was released before the film).

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So, all of the discoveries, beginning with the flower - that was all just a normal sequence of events, with no string-pulling from anyone?

My whole thing with stuff like this is the "stroke of luck" component; I mean, he just happened to take a quick glance before leaving when he saw the flower, right? (which I couldn't even see from his perspective with my 27" television). That's why I wondered if maybe he somehow "knew" where to look, that subconsciously he thought there was something special about the tree. So the events that play out (regarding K's early discoveries), do in fact have their genesis in mere fate, eh? No set ups or anything?

Thanks for all of that info!

buzby said:

He can control his emotions up to a point - that's part of what was great about Gosling's performance IMO, that he was able to convey how K was having to keep his emotions constantly in check (and occasionally failing - the fight with Sapper and at Ana's lab) due to the consequences for him if he failed a baseline. By the time of the second test, his whole world as he knew it had fallen apart. Joshi didn't know about any of that - all she knew is he was supposed to be doing his mission and he was picked up outside an upgrade centre and might be'going 'rogue'. She's only mad at him until he confirms that he had done what she asked,, and she is then relieved and becomes more concerned for his situation.


The music from the trailer was a reworking of the original score - that composer was removed and replaced by Zimmer and Wallfisch a couple of months before release. Their score is still synth-based (and the Yamaha CS80 plays a large part in it), but has a far heavier and more oppressive atmosphere than Vangelis' score for the original (though they do quote his score for one key scene)

The original is my favourite film too - I've owned all the versions since my first VHS in 1987, and have watched it well over 100 times over the years. I too was very worried right up until I heard Mark Kermode's (BBC) review. He is also a big fan, and made a documentary for Channel 5 in the UK about the original that made it onto some versions of the DVD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3mq-1jcFzk
He was also worried until about 20 minutes in, when he realised they had got the tone and pacing right and he loved the film. Based on that I went to see it, and wasn't disappointed - I ended up seeing it 5 times at the cinema.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba8OIbWEHQM

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I love Mark Kermode’s reviews. He’s probably my favorite film critic since Pauline Kael.

Keycube said:

So, all of the discoveries, beginning with the flower - that was all just a normal sequence of events, with no string-pulling from anyone?

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Sort of - there's a little assistance from Luv when she drone strikes the scavengers as she wants K to lead her to the child. The replicant resistance also try to use K for their own ends too, in the hope he will lead them to Deckard so they can kill him to keep Ana's identity safe Ana is the one who did the major string pulling to start with by selling one of her memories to Wallace in the hope it would be implanted into a replicant. Her motive for doing this isn't explored explicitly - like I said, she might be doing it as a way to find her real parents ( she must know she's adopted, as she can remember the orphanage). Maybe it's a form of 'message in a bottle' - she is effectively marooned in her bubble like a sailor on a desert island, so sending her memories out to be implanted in replicants is a way for part of her to 'escape' into the outside world.

My whole thing with stuff like this is the "stroke of luck" component; I mean, he just happened to take a quick glance before leaving when he saw the flower, right? (which I couldn't even see from his perspective with my 27" television). That's why I wondered if maybe he somehow "knew" where to look, that subconsciously he thought there was something special about the tree. So the events that play out (regarding K's early discoveries), do in fact have their genesis in mere fate, eh? No set ups or anything?

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Not everything has to run to a grand plan. One on the themes behind the BR universe is that no matter how much the creators (Tyrell and Wallace) try to control and restrict their creations, it's doomed to failure. Once you create sentient beings they will always develop their own self-will and agency. Just like all the previous generations of replicant before him, K develops his own emotions and motivations beyond hiis preset genetic programming, removing the only distinction between being a replicant and a humans. He decides his own destiny like Roy in the first film, and makes his own decision to sacrifice himself for someone else because it's the moral thing to do. He becomes more human than most of the 'real' humans we see in the film.

BR 2049 was my movie of 2017....amazingly haunting cinematography - I'm hoping Roger Deakins finally gets the Oscar he deserves. I recently got the 4K HDR Blu-ray and upgraded my home theater to Dolby Atmos just for this film and testing it out in a few scenes was really amazing (a lot of the ambient SFX is pushed through the Atmos channels).

Movie wise, I've read through a lot about how Joi is supposed to work and be represented on-screen and it's quite fascinating. I love learning the rules of how things are supposed to work in films (like how Joi's program adapted to the rain, etc.).

One thing that I didn't see a lot of talk of which I had a problem with was Decard's motivation for initially shooting K. K and Decard had already established a dialogue upon meeting when suddenly Decard took a shot at K, causing him to fall over the balcony. I feel this was a edit problem as K didn't do anything to provoke Decard into taking the shot and was really just put in there as a catalyst for the chase sequence into the showstage area....

pcenginefx said:

One thing that I didn't see a lot of talk of which I had a problem with was Decard's motivation for initially shooting K. K and Decard had already established a dialogue upon meeting when suddenly Decard took a shot at K, causing him to fall over the balcony. I feel this was a edit problem as K didn't do anything to provoke Decard into taking the shot and was really just put in there as a catalyst for the chase sequence into the showstage area....

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My take on that was Deckard was simply taking no chances with K as he was the only one smart/motivated enough to find him. I`m fairly certain Deckard also knew he was a cop and replicant straight off the bat. The casual way he said "Thats a serial number" to K gave me that impression.

Mr Webber said:

My take on that was Deckard was simply taking no chances with K as he was the only one smart/motivated enough to find him. I`m fairly certain Deckard also knew he was a cop and replicant straight off the bat. The casual way he said "Thats a serial number" to K gave me that impression.

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I took it the same way. I mean K wasn't posing any threat still while Deckard was punching him time after time. Deckard knew right off the bat that K was a cop.

Ben

gizmo said:

I took it the same way. I mean K wasn't posing any threat still while Deckard was punching him time after time. Deckard knew right off the bat that K was a cop.

Ben

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Absolutely and Deckard was in the shoot first and ask questions later situation.

Mr Webber said:

Absolutely and Deckard was in the shoot first and ask questions later situation.

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It felt like a little wink to Star Wars fans too.

Finally saw this yesterday.
I had reservations, because the original is in my top 5 favorite movies of all time.

I didn't hate it. It was all right.

Axlotl said:

Finally saw this yesterday.
I had reservations, because the original is in my top 5 favorite movies of all time.

I didn't hate it. It was all right.

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After watching it the other day for the first time myself, these are exactly my opinions as well. I'm always expecting "terrible" anymore, so that probably helps.

Just finished watching it. Frankly, it bored the hell out of me. Bloated with scenes going nowhere. Hollywood doesn't seem to understand the value of thrift. Every damn silly film just goes on and on. Didn't care much for Gosling, and Ford looks like he's 1000 years old.

Keycube said:

So, I've put off seeing this film because as a major fan of the original, I didn't want to see it tarnished in some way because of this. I was also angry that I thought I heard some similar synth-type score over part of a trailer, and I feared a lame retread.

I still know nothing about it, but now I'm getting curious. Being a child of the 80's and forever embracing the tonal qualities that went with its films, am I going to like this?

Click to expand...

I thought the same as you initially but after watching it (many times!!) I can honestly say its now one of my favorite movies

Just YESTERDAY? :eek

I have watched it 10 times deconstructing different scenes and while it still irritates the hell out of me what I initally posted, I have really come to love this Film.

While it is no where near the original it is a worthy attempt at a sequel

Axlotl said:

Finally saw this yesterday.
I had reservations, because the original is in my top 5 favorite movies of all time.

I didn't hate it. It was all right.

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Apollo said:

Just YESTERDAY? :eek

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Yah - I wasn't sure if I was ever going to watch it, because the mere idea of a BR sequel kind of offended me.
But yesterday I said "Might as well get it over with..." and I rented it.

It wasn't terrible, but it wasn't great. Didn't make a dent in my top 50 movies of all time.

Probe Droid said:

Just finished watching it. Frankly, it bored the hell out of me. Bloated with scenes going nowhere. Hollywood doesn't seem to understand the value of thrift. Every damn silly film just goes on and on. Didn't care much for Gosling, and Ford looks like he's 1000 years old.

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Wow I couldn't disagree more. The fact that it took its time with each scene was a breath of fresh air for me in this day of ADD fuelled,explosions every 2 seconds, clutter fest movies of modern day.

Ben