Announcement You spoke, We listened! - Junkyard V 2.1

[Moviefreak]

I find it funny that many older members HATE HATE HATE the idea of having to contribute the premium payment to sell: " I have been here since 2000 and this place never needed to charge for this service in the past so why now? "

They also ALL throw around how they, and especially RYLO are one of the many people who helped build this community into what it is.... yet RYLO is one of the biggest supporters of the new junkyard and the premium membership. :lol

Why is it that Rylo see's the benefit and growth of things but most other senior members want to go out kicking and screaming? Let alone constantly poking jabs at the Admin clearly knowinig they are just trying to rock the boat and start arguments? :lol

 

[mistymills]

I've been involved with message forums (running and being a member) for many years. Like since 1991 kind of many years. I'm saying that not because I think it somehow grants levity to what I say, but because I want to point out that this comes from many years of experience...

The forum model (pay vs. non-pay) is not a one size fits all situation. The reason it will work here over another place (for example, an actor forum I moderated for several years) is because the people here are paying out large sums of money for this hobby, both to build and to collect.

Mostly it comes down to this question:
If you're willing to shell out hundreds of dollars on a single item, be it creating or just collecting, would it benefit you to pay the $36 for a premium membership for a year to keep a place running that allows you to research this investment?

- - - Updated - - -

Edit to add:
If you have to pay to sell items, maybe this might cut down on the amount of people who end up incapable of fulfilling orders?

 

[Boba Debt]

I find it funny that many older members HATE HATE HATE the idea of having to contribute the premium payment to sell: " I have been here since 2000 and this place never needed to charge for this service in the past so why now? "

They also ALL throw around how they, and especially RYLO are one of the many people who helped build this community into what it is.... yet RYLO is one of the biggest supporters of the new junkyard and the premium membership. :lol

Why is it that Rylo see's the benefit and growth of things but most other senior members want to go out kicking and screaming? Let alone constantly poking jabs at the Admin clearly knowinig they are just trying to rock the boat and start arguments? :lol

Rylo does this a source of income so for him it is the cost of doing business. Many of us just do this as a hobby. I'm not saying I don't make some money but it doesn't pay my bills, sometimes it doesn't even pay for the cost of the project.

Older members complain about change because that means that in some cases it changes the dynamic of the forum. At one time this forum was all about building but now it seems more about selling.

I've been involved with message forums (running and being a member) for many years. Like since 1991 kind of many years. I'm saying that not because I think it somehow grants levity to what I say, but because I want to point out that this comes from many years of experience...

The forum model (pay vs. non-pay) is not a one size fits all situation. The reason it will work here over another place (for example, an actor forum I moderated for several years) is because the people here are paying out large sums of money for this hobby, both to build and to collect.

Mostly it comes down to this question:
If you're willing to shell out hundreds of dollars on a single item, be it creating or just collecting, would it benefit you to pay the $36 for a premium membership for a year to keep a place running that allows you to research this investment?

- - - Updated - - -

Edit to add:
If you have to pay to sell items, maybe this might cut down on the amount of people who end up incapable of fulfilling orders?

IF EVERYONE had to pay a membership fee to cover the cost of this forum it would be fair, but to ask people to pay fees for specific perks is lop sided.


I would love to know how many of the current members paid the premium membership fee?


IMO charging a fee to sell items tends to push that part of the forum to more of a retail business and less of a "member help member" base format.

 

[Moviefreak]

Older members complain about change because that means that in some cases it changes the dynamic of the forum. At one time this forum was all about building but now it seems more about selling.

Absolutely.... the dynamics have changed over the years. But did it change because of the premium membership fee? No. It changed slowly over a long period to a selling based forum and crowd. If anything, selling has slowed down a lot since the the change.

I understand people do not like change, and to watch the forum evolve to something different is frustrating, but with change comes the need to adapt, as members and as a forum as a whole. To blame the shift in dynamics to having "to pay to sell" does not make sense. As you said: "it is now all about selling". That is because we had so many members who came here for that purpose as they saw this as a free alternative to ebay, and a way to make quick cash as well as scam people. So the mods had no other choice but to adapt to that new model.

 

[Art Andrews]

However, this turn of events at Glock Talk is comforting, maybe Side Show Freaks and the RPF will soon realize that charging hobbyists a fee to sell items to other hobbyists isn’t the best way to promote community.

It is sad, but I suppose not at all surprising that you are taking comfort from the failures within a community you claim to like.

 

[rgriesbeck]

I can believe that people complain over less than $4.00 per month. Everyone wants everything free, including the ability to sell their **** for free. If you don't like it, head over to Craigslist, see how many props you'll sell over there for "free". I'm thankful everyday for this site and for the pleasurable, interested, audience that likes to buy my stuff. I'd pay $30 a month for the revenue this site helps me achieve.

Ignore that last part Art.

 

[Boba Debt]

It is sad, but I suppose not at all surprising that you are taking comfort from the failures within a community you claim to like.

You are mistaken, I never really l liked Glock Talk, it was too big to be a community by the time I joined and the only reason I joined was to learn more about Glocks. Once I learned what I needed to know I moved on and I only check in once in while to see if there is anything new going on.


I feel the same way about the AVS forum I'm a member of. It's way to big to really enjoy it.

As for the comfort I referred to, it was not based on the failures of the Glock Talk mod team. It was based on their ability to recognize that something they implemented didn’t work out and I took comfort knowing that they were able to accept that didn’t work out, and reverted back to the original system.



However, I'm not surprised that you would try and paint me in a bad light by presuming to know me. You seem to always try to put a bad spin on what I do and post. You really are not the same person I met at Dragon Con so long ago.

I can believe that people complain over less than $4.00 per month. Everyone wants everything free, including the ability to sell their **** for free. If you don't like it, head over to Craigslist, see how many props you'll sell over there for "free". I'm thankful everyday for this site and for the pleasurable, interested, audience that likes to buy my stuff. I'd pay $30 a month for the revenue this site helps me achieve.

Ignore that last part Art.

You’re basing that on singular participation on this forum.

I’m a member of a variety of forums and in recent years many of them have implemented membership fees with varying degrees of success.


One of my meteorite forums probably wishes they had never tried to make everyone pay $5 per month because they are completely gone now.

Side Show Freaks made their classified section only accessible to premium members and now the majority of sellers are flippers. They pre-order figures and re-sell them for high profits. Regular members only option to sell off figures is ebay and in that venue they command the highest prices so gone are the days of members hooking up other members.

Most of the gun forums I’m a member of have tried various fee systems and most failed so they resort to ad bombing the forum. I just don’t bother going to them anymore and when I do it’s like a ghost town at most of them.


EVEN this forum failed. At one time the mods had a donation system it it caused all kinds of problems. It eventually went away.


I’m sure that if I paid the fees at every forum I'm a member of it would be more then my cable bill and so far the only benefit that I get from paying this forums fees is that I am allowed to run Active Projects

 

[Moviefreak]

Side Show Freaks made their classified section only accessible to premium members and now the majority of sellers are flippers. They pre-order figures and re-sell them for high profits. Regular members only option to sell off figures is ebay and in that venue they command the highest prices so gone are the days of members hooking up other members.

Their ONLY option is ebay? No! They have TWOoptions... ebay AND becoming a premium member on Side Show Freaks.

If they choose to sell on ebay, that is a choice they made and is not dictated because of the site.... it is more dictated by greed. They want the max amount of money off the item and as you even acknowledged, "in that venue they command the highest prices". So they "Choose" to sell on ebay to get more money and most likely pay higher fees.
They could opt to sell just on Sideshow Freaks and pay A LOT less in fees... but they know they would have to sell for a lot less or sit on their item longer than if posting it on ebay. SO they have turned to ebay and many members who used to get "the hook-ups and deals" do not like it and now are complaining that "it is the forums fault".
Just like here, there are sellers in the JY who choose to use ebay auctions, yet still post it here. Why? To hook up other members"? No.... because they want the most money they can get. That is greed taking over and these people are willing to pay not only $4 a month here but also the high ebay fees to sell.

Times have changed and it is not the addition of premium $4 fees. You have been in this hobby since the early years, and you were here when the hobby was smaller and a closer knit of members. But over the years it has attracted a larger audience and a large amount of people who saw the money these props can make. That started the trend of people joining to "just sell". And with that came scam artists. That is just how things have evolved and I see so many old timers from "the good old days" hating it. It is like the old grumpy man who hates these young kids these days and the way the world has changed :lol

Fact is: Greed is in human nature, and greed is what might end up killing the hobby. With greed comes price hikes, scammers and loss of quality members who just hate things and leave. The forum has no fault in human nature.

 

[Boba Debt]

Your assumptions about the members of SSF are very negative and IMO, uncalled for. With one broad brush you paint a bunch of them as greedy. From what I have read most don't use the site forum to sell their figures because flippers snap then up in a second and resell them.


This forum had scammers since DAY 1 and the premium membership fee may help to curtail that but it's not the solution.


BTW: It's pretty clear that the fee became a requirement for Junkyard use to make more people have to get it, there by generating more profit for Art.

 

[Moviefreak]

Your assumptions about the members of SSF are very negative and IMO, uncalled for.


BTW: It's pretty clear that the fee became a requirement for Junkyard use to make more people have to get it, there by generating more profit for Art.

You get defensive all too easily :lol.

Nobody was slamming anyone or making assumtions. I was making a broad statement of the whole hobby, not just SSF. And as you always point out... we are free to have our own views and comments and should be allowed to express them in an open forum. I have seen you say that to Art and other mods before. So why when I post my view of the direction of the hobby, it is "uncalled for" and "negative"? Am I not allowed to post my views too? You can ignore this all you want, but the level of greed ACROSS THE HOBBY has increased and is affecting EVERY FORUM.

And as for your comment about Art and generating profit??? I will quote you: THAT WAS VERY NEGATIVE AND IMO, UNCALLED FOR.

But oh well... can't change people :lol I am done with this topic. :cheers

 

[Boba Debt]

Defensive, if you think I'm defending the members of SSF you are mistaken, that place is full of immature collectors that drive me nuts but like most internet based venues it is the best option for Hot Toys info so I tolerate it.


My comment was more of a way to explain your narrow minded way of insulting a bunch of people you don't even know


You specifically said


"If they choose to sell on ebay, that is a choice they made and is not dictated because of the site.... it is more dictated by greed."



That pretty much seems like a slam to me. So anyone that sells on ebay is greedy????? I'm pretty sure you believe this because you also said "


"Just like here, there are sellers in the JY who choose to use ebay auctions, yet still post it here. Why? To hook up other members"? No.... because they want the most money they can get."



This is a business for ART, he has an LLC and several forums fall under it. I'm not saying he does it because of greed but I am pretty sure that income part of the reason.

 

[Kevin Gossett]

You really think Art makes a profit from premium membership fees?

 

[Moviefreak]

My comment was more of a way to explain your narrow minded way of insulting a bunch of people you don't even know

Narrow minded because I said some people are getting greedy?

You insinuated Art was greedy... so isn't that narrow minded?
And yes, you can now claim you stated above that you are "not saying he is greedy" But you did state it indirectly, but loud and clear:

BTW: It's pretty clear that the fee became a requirement for Junkyard use to make more people have to get it, there by generating more profit for Art.

 

[Boba Debt]

You really think Art makes a profit from premium membership fees?

Ah, probably. I'm sure the advertising generates income too. As I said, This is a business for Art. Businesses have to generate profit

You can only lose money for so long before you're broke, it's simple economics.

People don't just go out and create LLCs because they are great tax shelters.

I don't care if Art or any other forum owner makes money by operating forums just as the people that buy items from sellers shouldn't be upset that the seller is making money from the sale.


I forget where it posted but at one time, prior to the PM fee applying to the ability to post in the junkyard, that there were 450 premium Members. . At $36 per year that is $16200 gross income.

I can't image it costs that much to pay the operating costs for this forum and I'm sur ethat numer has increased since they made it a requirement to post to the junkyard.


I would really like to know how many Premium Members this forum currently has.







Moviefreak- Don't for a single second think I edited the context of my post, I edited a simple spelling error, and nothing else.

 

[rgriesbeck]

Your assumptions about the members of SSF are very negative and IMO, uncalled for. With one broad brush you paint a bunch of them as greedy. From what I have read most don't use the site forum to sell their figures because flippers snap then up in a second and resell them.


This forum had scammers since DAY 1 and the premium membership fee may help to curtail that but it's not the solution.


BTW: It's pretty clear that the fee became a requirement for Junkyard use to make more people have to get it, there by generating more profit for Art.

Why can't Art earn money? Last time I checked that's what a business does. I'm sure he puts in a ton of time and if my $4 a month helps him earn something higher than minimum wage, then I'm happy. It's not like the guys who run things here sit back and do nothing, while they rake in the big bucks. I've done a ton of website work both in front of and behind the scenes. I know the time spent vs. money earned, and no one is doing this to get rich. If this doesn't earn enough money to make it profitable and the site goes away, I'm ****ed. So gladly, take my money Art.

Again its FOUR BUCKS! Don't pay it if you don't want to, just stop complaining about people earning money for their hard work.

 

[Bigdaddy]

Ah, probably. I'm sure the advertising generates income too. As I said, This is a business for Art. Businesses have to generate profit

You can only lose money for so long before you're broke, it's simple economics.

People don't just go out and create LLCs because they are great tax shelters.

I don't care if Art or any other forum owner makes money by operating forums just as the people that buy items from seller should be upset that the seller is making money from the sale.


I forget where it posted but at one time, prior to the PM fee applying to the ability to post in the junkyard, that there were 450 premium Members. . At $36 per year that is $16200 gross income.

I can't image it costs that much to pay the operating costs for this forum and I'm sure that number has increased since they made it a requirement to post to the junkyard.


I would really like to know how many Premium Members this forum currently has.

I have no idea how many premium members the forum has, but suppose your figure of $16,2000 is correct, (minus the PP fees ) That is really chump change to run ANY kind of business (that actually supports a livelihood)! Let's suppose it only cost $10,000 a year (a ridiculously low figure, otherwise I'm in the wrong business ), that means Art is rolling around on a pile of 6000 profit for the year! Time to order up a Bentley Art! :lol Frankly I don't care if Art makes millions of the site ( I hope he does!) as long as it's up and running to enjoy, but if he's living off that 6K a year I feel kinda guilty. :$ It seems obvious that Art is very passionate about props as a hobby, but the man has to eat too!
This past year our farm upgraded to a Point Of Sale system for selling at Farmer's Markets, the software and tech support to set it up was almost $10,000, so it would not surprise me at all if the cost of running a site as large as the RPF was considerably higher than that.
If it comes down to it that $4 a month is too much to pay then by all means, don't pay it, nobody is forcing you to. Personally I sell on my stuff on Ebay and have a PM. The Idea that anybody should provide a free market place for others to "profit" is silly. Why shouldn't everybody "profit" from the arrangement?

 

[Boba Debt]

Why can't Art earn money? Last time I checked that's what a business does. I'm sure he puts in a ton of time and if my $4 a month helps him earn something higher than minimum wage, then I'm happy. It's not like the guys who run things here sit back and do nothing, while they rake in the big bucks. I've done a ton of website work both in front of and behind the scenes. I know the time spent vs. money earned, and no one is doing this to get rich. If this doesn't earn enough money to make it profitable and the site goes away, I'm ****ed. So gladly, take my money Art.

Again its FOUR BUCKS! Don't pay it if you don't want to, just stop complaining about people earning money for their hard work.

Did you read my post and miss where I said this :



"I don't care if Art or any other forum owner makes money by operating forums just as the people that buy items from sellers shouldn't be upset that the seller is making money from the sale."


OR did you just just ignore that part?




That is a big problem with typed communication, too many people skim or misinterpret posts and come to the wrong conclusions.

And then there are some people that intentionally misinterpret post just to add to the drama

 

[Boba Debt]

..... Why shouldn't everybody "profit" from the arrangement?

Another post skimmer.

Guess you missed the part where I said he owns multiple forums and also charges for advertisements.

Let me clearly state a few other things I never said:

I never said Art made a fortune, I said the fess probably generate income

I never said or implied that it is bad that Art makes money from this forum. I hope he does make money, despite what some think, I know he loves this hobby and works hard so he deserves something for his efforts.



I do take umbrage with this comment though: "The Idea that anybody should provide a free market place for others to "profit" is silly"

This place used to be a community of hobbyists and profit wasn't the primary motivation.

It saddens me that it has become a market place but that has nothing to do with the politics of this forum and more to do the current societal conditions.







I could not participate in this hobby if I didn't make a lot of money as an Aircraft Mechanic.

I just hosted a contest that cost me over $600 but it was a fun so it was worth it.

I also just shelled out over a $1000 to buy the extra parts that had to be machined (based on process overage percentages that have to be made to cover parts that might get damaged) for my Active Project and I doubt most of them will sell.

The machinist told me I didn't have to buy them but I wasn't going to stick him with the parts because he HAS to make money and I'm just doing this as a hobby.



Despite all of the changes that have affected this forum I still love to build things and I still love to help others build things so I will just roll along, complain as needed and hope I don't get banned like so many of the other legacy members.








......

 

[mistymills]

Your assumptions about the members of SSF are very negative and IMO, uncalled for. With one broad brush you paint a bunch of them as greedy.

Well, in that same vein, you also made the broad brush assumption of painting anyone who hasn't had an account here for years as 'new' to forums and the hobby when many people are not, they just didn't sign up for an account on here ages ago.

BTW: It's pretty clear that the fee became a requirement for Junkyard use to make more people have to get it, there by generating more profit for Art.

You can still use the forums to buy things without paying. I don't see the problem. If you're looking to sell things, it's kind of an investment of sorts, and not an expensive one at that. Not to mention that you get a whole LIST of perks for being premium.

You get a whole YEAR of access for less than a one-day ticket to most conventions. It isn't a large amount. And if you want to just sell one thing, just get a one-month premium subscription. Four bucks. Most people pay more than that for a cup of coffee, plus you're saving on the insane eBay fees so it kinda evens out on that ONE transaction.

I also don't get the problem people have with people who come here specifically to buy or sell and not make things. Yes, the forum might have started as a way for people to get together to talk about making things, but it's grown to a great resource for more than just that. That will always be a focus area, but to imply it's the only reason people should come here is short-sighed and kind of selfish. It's like telling me I have no business here because my interest is in SPFX makeup and not making Iron Man suits.

 

[Bigdaddy]

Another post skimmer.

Guess you missed the part where I said he owns multiple forums and also charges for advertisements.

Let me clearly state a few other things I never said:

I never said Art made a fortune, I said the fess probably generate income

I never said or implied that it is bad that Art makes money from this forum. I hope he does make money, despite what some think, I know he loves this hobby and works hard so he deserves something for his efforts.



I do take umbrage with this comment though: "The Idea that anybody should provide a free market place for others to "profit" is silly"

This place used to be a community of hobbyists and profit wasn't the primary motivation.

It saddens me that it has become a market place but that has nothing to do with the politics of this forum and more to do the current societal conditions.







I could not participate in this hobby if I didn't make a lot of money as an Aircraft Mechanic.

I just hosted a contest that cost me over $600 but it was a fun so it was worth it.

I also just shelled out over a $1000 to buy the extra parts that had to be machined (based on process overage percentages that have to be made to cover parts that might get damaged) for my Active Project and I doubt most of them will sell.

The machinist told me I didn't have to buy them but I wasn't going to stick him with the parts because he HAS to make money and I'm just doing this as a hobby.



Despite all of the changes that have affected this forum I still love to build things and I still love to help others build things so I will just roll along, complain as needed and hope I don't get banned like so many of the other legacy members.








......

I didn't skim your post, I quoted what I was responding to. You started by pointing out a business has to make money or go under, then you went on to point out the "supposed" $16200 of gross profit as though it was a substantial figure for a business. I was simply showing how small a figure it actually is.
Your obviously dedicated to building and hope you stick around.
On Bannings: I'm pretty sure only people that blatantly violate the rules get banned, regardless of how long they have been here.

"Laws must bind all men, high and low...or they aren't laws at all" A. Pendragon