Sweet, thanks dude. From your set, I've only got the bottom of Red 3 hero, and the one with rear and top of Red 3 hero. The others have probably been up on this forum in years past, but have been lost to broken links. I can't see any detail on the Red 3 pyro, does it look like it matches the bottom of the screen cap or is it different?
X-Wing Research: Differences Between the Hero and Pyro Models
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Sweet, thanks dude. From your set, I've only got the bottom of Red 3 hero, and the one with rear and top of Red 3 hero. The others have probably been up on this forum in years past, but have been lost to broken links. I can't see any detail on the Red 3 pyro, does it look like it matches the bottom of the screen cap or is it different?
The pyro 3,4,6,12 models were all painted by what looks like the same fella. Decals, similar paint work, coloring, etc. Probably the first wave, probably SUPER early 1976. We know the Blue 1 and Red Y were made in December of '75. I have a copy of the document that shows the time lines, and who worked on the armature/wiring/construction/paint, etc - it's AWESOME to see - and they worked on them up until December 24th, shipping to Elstree on the 26th.
I reckon that when they came back from the holiday break, they made those pyros, during that time when they took their time with the deco, and the "blue" call outs on the labels makes me think they hadn't realized that they would have needed to change to red markings, which again says that it was early enough that nothing had really been filmed against the blue screen just yet.
I reckon that when they came back from the holiday break, they made those pyros, during that time when they took their time with the deco, and the "blue" call outs on the labels makes me think they hadn't realized that they would have needed to change to red markings, which again says that it was early enough that nothing had really been filmed against the blue screen just yet.
Sorry, I don't have your CD. I've just been fishing for pics on the threads and a couple of other sites with reference pics. There are some older posts on this thread or others that mention the "Blue 3 Biggs", and they were probably posted at that time but their links are now busted.
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Yeah, I found a pic of the hand written block schedule going up through January. There might be more of it I don't have. I also found the pic of Red Jammer packed up in its traveling crate on another thread, and found three pics of Blue Leader with the blue striping.
Thanks Nwerke. I thought I was maybe going crosseyed looking at them, but I was getting the same impression that I was looking at the bottom of Red 6, but the Red 3 markings are pretty clear on the wings. I've never seen the bottom of Red 3 pyro, so all I could conclude is that the two must have similar bottoms.
jedimaster
Sr Member
Don't forget the colors washed out on film. The shots of red 5 in the trench run have no visible colors other than red and grey, yet you know the colorscheme of that bird is completely different. Those screen grabs Mr Dot-Dash guy :lol posted show red 3 hero. It you compare the underside shown to that of the red 3 pyro they are not alike. It is clearly the red 3 hero and if you were to adjust the contrast somewhat the familiar red 3 hero markings will appear. Not the colours but the markings. If you look at the aft section of the bottom of the fuse you can see the stripe all be it washed out but it's there. On the model profile shots you can see it clear as day in the green washed paint scheme. Studio lighting has a tendency to wash out little details which as decals and light colors. So looking for shading from a model in a screen grab is pretty difficult to nail down.
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Awesome, 1986 Troll with Sonny Bono transforming into a giant pea-pod, and Elaine from Seinfeld turning into a horny plant minx. And June Lockhart turns into Ann Lockhart. The weirdest part is Michael Moriarty dancing with himself. Wait, there aren't any subtitles, maybe we're not talking about the same movie.
Yeah, you're right. The yellow totally disappears, and blue turns to black on R2. The olive green color that is on the bottom of Red 6 likely turns dark gray in the film. Which is what the bottom of Red 2 looked like, a big dark gray patch. Made me wonder if Red 3 pyro and Red 6 looked similar underneath. Do they?
Nevermind (church lady voice)
Sorry, I guess you must have edited your post after I first read it, and you answered my question. Going back to squinting at the pics again.
jedimaster
Sr Member
Not really, red 6 has a large redish banded off section under the cockpit.
Playing with the contrast and the brightness the first screen grab of Red 3's bottom started to pop out the two painted panels on the bottom of the fuselage and started to match up to the hero reference pic. But this one still gives me trouble:
The hero Red 3 pic shows a light green on the nose cone, then a body color panel, then a brown panel, and then an olive panel. On the picture above it looks like the light green nose cone turns brown. Behind it is just a big blob of dark gray. Maybe the two panels are blurring together as one, but even what looks like it might be one of the panels seems to have an irregular shape. Maybe it is just the shadows from the harsh lighting, but I'm not seeing the hero details. I got thinking about the wing spread and realized I was looking at a model that would be spinning on a motorized rig which would likely be affected by centrifugal force, with the wing mechanism probably spreading out to its maximum stretch without gravity working to pull down on the wings. That would make more sense.
edit: After posting, my eye was drawn back to the bottom fuselage and I noticed the gray color extending up the sides to just underneath, and noticed that the archives pics showed the bottom of the fuselage being a light gray color that was slightly darker than the main color of the ship. The gray is darker in the screen cap under the studio lights, and if I adjust for that I see one panel on the bottom of fuselage that might be the two panels blending together due to the perspective. Some of the irregular shape I see may be due to the shadows from the angled surface of the area that bumps out underneath where the bottom plug is.
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Junk Pilot
Sr Member
I don't want to muddy already murky waters as far as Red 3 goes and I don't want to do battle with greater minds when it comes to X-Wings but I just want to ask a few questions on things that are not yet explained to me.
If you look at the leading edges of the top left and bottom right wings of Red 3 when it is "rolling over" it appears that the markings extend down the front of the wings edge.
In pics "Red 3" and "Red3a" when the ship is upside down you can clearly see what appears to be the Red marking on the edge. Yet in the third pic "Red 3b" of the ship in the archives it is not there. Has Red 3 undergone a re-paint and did this occur when they added the landing gear?
Also, in the fourth pic, what's the deal with the screw?
Lastly, has the champhered edges on the wings on Red 3 been noted before?
If you look at the leading edges of the top left and bottom right wings of Red 3 when it is "rolling over" it appears that the markings extend down the front of the wings edge.
In pics "Red 3" and "Red3a" when the ship is upside down you can clearly see what appears to be the Red marking on the edge. Yet in the third pic "Red 3b" of the ship in the archives it is not there. Has Red 3 undergone a re-paint and did this occur when they added the landing gear?
Also, in the fourth pic, what's the deal with the screw?
Lastly, has the champhered edges on the wings on Red 3 been noted before?
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JP, the model necessarily had at least *some* paint touchups when the deduced landing gear work was done, so it could be that. The screencaps are just too fuzzy for me though, I can't tell.
As for the screw, it appears to have been intended to hold the wings more closely together than the armature allowed - presumably for landing-configuration shots. There are also signs of the wings being GLUED together. Horrors!
Many of the X-wings had chamfered wing LEs. The 1:1 mockup did too.
As for the screw, it appears to have been intended to hold the wings more closely together than the armature allowed - presumably for landing-configuration shots. There are also signs of the wings being GLUED together. Horrors!
Many of the X-wings had chamfered wing LEs. The 1:1 mockup did too.
MonsieurTox
Master Member
Yeah, AFAIK there's no X-Wing that doesnt have chamfered wings, even Blue Leader/Red 2 does !
That's interesting. I hadn't noticed all the chamfered wings before.
MonsieurTox
Master Member
Julien, *especially* Blue Leader...she was the reason the mockup followed suit!
There are some pyros without the chamfer, IIRC - but don't take my word for it, I've got a migraine.
Yeah but since Blue Leader/Red 2 is very different in many aspects that would have not surprised me if it didnt have chamfered wings !
Are you sure for the pyro ? Do you mean there were 2 different pyro wing masters ? In all pics pyro I have they all have chamfered wings, which pyro are you thinking about ?
-... . .- --..
Sr Member
The wings were all chamfered.
At some point, both the Red 3 and Red 5 hero miniatures had worm screws installed in the wings, presumably to facilitate closing them nice and tight for the shots where they needed to be closed.
I see no evidence of worm screws in the wings of Blue Leader/Red 2. It remains the most pristine hero model, most likely because it remained with Grant McCune after ANH wrapped, by all accounts, and therefore wasn't available for ILM to use (abuse?) for the subsequent films.
At some point, both the Red 3 and Red 5 hero miniatures had worm screws installed in the wings, presumably to facilitate closing them nice and tight for the shots where they needed to be closed.
I see no evidence of worm screws in the wings of Blue Leader/Red 2. It remains the most pristine hero model, most likely because it remained with Grant McCune after ANH wrapped, by all accounts, and therefore wasn't available for ILM to use (abuse?) for the subsequent films.
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