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Sr Member
Yep. Maybe two AMT X-Wings back there...
X-Wing Research: Differences Between the Hero and Pyro Models
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jedimaster
Sr Member
@Blue5 the shots of the x's you revered to as missing earlier. Ie John D / Biggs etc were all Pyro's.
Miniaturizer Ray
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure that Red 3 can be identified in several shots in STAR WARS, although, having been on the wagon for a few years, I don't recall whether any of these shots survived into the special edition. From memory, the "lock S-foils" shot features Red 3, there's a shot of the underside doing a barrel roll, and (I may be mis-remembering these) the shots showing Wedge shooting the TIE fighter that's chasing Luke and then, later, leaving the trench are Red 3.
Wow, did I get a response on that stir of the pot. Cool! I guess everyone had Sunday free.
Yes Nwerke, I fully expected to get some grief for questioning. But as you said, you got to go where the deductions take you.
That's a great shot of Muren with Red 3 hero. But I have to agree with Jedimaster's sarcasm, I don't see anything in the pic that indicates which film he's setting the model up. If there was Red Leader or triangles-Y sitting nearby, then that would nail it. Also if we could identify that the studio is their first digs they had until moving after ANH was released. Or maybe somebody has an article with Muren stating that he always wore his lucky red shirt during production on ANH until it caught fire while blowing up Red 4. I don't know if Red 3 hero is anti-social, it never seems to want to be around other models.
I'm still scouring my Bluray and my 2006 theatrical release DVD trying to match up the Red 3 shots with the Red 3 hero. I don't think there are too many lost model shots on the special edition on my Bluray, which allows a better view than my DVD. I think the digital replacements are the flight to the Death Star, locking S-foils, Red 5 pulling up, Red 2 flying through the TIE, some banking and rolling high above the Death Star, an additional X-Wing when Red 5 dives to the trench, and a digital flight away from the Death Star. While I'm away on the road, I've been reviewing it in low-res here:
The Battle of Yavin Part 1 of 2 - YouTube
The Battle of Yavin Part 2 of 2 - YouTube
It does make sense that Blue Leader would lack motorized wings if they were in a hurry to finish it and send it to the UK. Red Jammer tends to support that rush as they didn't even finish the starboard side of it. Since it has been stated that it took some trial and error to come up with wing mechanism, it is doubtful it would have been developed by the time Blue Leader needed to cross the Atlantic. So that makes sense to be one of the two “stage model” or hero X-Wings without motorized wings. But what was the other one with the manual wings, if Red Leader, 3 and 5 are the motorized ones?
There are only three shots in the battle where the hero X-Wings are necessary because the wings are closed or in the process of opening. There are three in the shot approaching the Death Star, and then I believe 14 in the head on shot leaving Yavin, obviously at least Red Leader and Red 5 visible in the bunch and composited several times to make the squadrons. The last one is the S-foils open shot (When I was a kid I always thought Red Leader said “despoils open”), and there are three models in that shot but we know from Famous Spaceships that only 3 could open their wings up on command. So if it is Red Leader, Red 5 and Red 3; then at least one is composited in. Looking at it, my guess would be that if they used three models then the three furthest were filmed together, and Red 5 was filmed as a separate element and composited over them. My guess is the models were mounted on the starboard side of the armature for the shot given the angle. But I can only confirm Red 5 in the foreground, I can't make out the other three for sure:
Thanks Jedimaster for the clarification on the “Blue 3 Biggs”. I was thinking if it was the hero, then that would be case closed on Red 3 hero, but alas no closure. I have the “Blue 12” and “Blue 4 John D” pics, but the “Blue 3 Biggs” is long gone from thread due to a broken link to it. I have a few shots of Blue Leader before she became Red 2, but none with the little note taped up with “Blue Leader”, so am I missing that one? I've looked for “Blue 3 Biggs” on the following sites but can't find it:
Red 3 X-Wing Studio Model
BRUCE'S DOMAIN: Studio Model Reference X-Wing Fighter Red 3 Part 1
Nwerke I meant that there were 5 heros and 9 pyros, which would be 14 total like you said. I didn't mean 9 total. Your list is about the best list that can be deduced/speculated. Are the Red Leader rough pyro, Red 3 [rough] pyro, Red 6 (pyro??), and Red 10 proposed missing models, or is there photo evidence of their existence? Red 10 is odd, because it is scripted, with lines of dialogue, but is absent from the models. It would answer the question of which of the three methods of numbering 7 through 11 is correct if it existed.
Interesting ESB video grab, I guess we don't know as much as we think we do
Yes Nwerke, I fully expected to get some grief for questioning. But as you said, you got to go where the deductions take you.
That's a great shot of Muren with Red 3 hero. But I have to agree with Jedimaster's sarcasm, I don't see anything in the pic that indicates which film he's setting the model up. If there was Red Leader or triangles-Y sitting nearby, then that would nail it. Also if we could identify that the studio is their first digs they had until moving after ANH was released. Or maybe somebody has an article with Muren stating that he always wore his lucky red shirt during production on ANH until it caught fire while blowing up Red 4. I don't know if Red 3 hero is anti-social, it never seems to want to be around other models.
I'm still scouring my Bluray and my 2006 theatrical release DVD trying to match up the Red 3 shots with the Red 3 hero. I don't think there are too many lost model shots on the special edition on my Bluray, which allows a better view than my DVD. I think the digital replacements are the flight to the Death Star, locking S-foils, Red 5 pulling up, Red 2 flying through the TIE, some banking and rolling high above the Death Star, an additional X-Wing when Red 5 dives to the trench, and a digital flight away from the Death Star. While I'm away on the road, I've been reviewing it in low-res here:
The Battle of Yavin Part 1 of 2 - YouTube
The Battle of Yavin Part 2 of 2 - YouTube
It does make sense that Blue Leader would lack motorized wings if they were in a hurry to finish it and send it to the UK. Red Jammer tends to support that rush as they didn't even finish the starboard side of it. Since it has been stated that it took some trial and error to come up with wing mechanism, it is doubtful it would have been developed by the time Blue Leader needed to cross the Atlantic. So that makes sense to be one of the two “stage model” or hero X-Wings without motorized wings. But what was the other one with the manual wings, if Red Leader, 3 and 5 are the motorized ones?
There are only three shots in the battle where the hero X-Wings are necessary because the wings are closed or in the process of opening. There are three in the shot approaching the Death Star, and then I believe 14 in the head on shot leaving Yavin, obviously at least Red Leader and Red 5 visible in the bunch and composited several times to make the squadrons. The last one is the S-foils open shot (When I was a kid I always thought Red Leader said “despoils open”), and there are three models in that shot but we know from Famous Spaceships that only 3 could open their wings up on command. So if it is Red Leader, Red 5 and Red 3; then at least one is composited in. Looking at it, my guess would be that if they used three models then the three furthest were filmed together, and Red 5 was filmed as a separate element and composited over them. My guess is the models were mounted on the starboard side of the armature for the shot given the angle. But I can only confirm Red 5 in the foreground, I can't make out the other three for sure:
Thanks Jedimaster for the clarification on the “Blue 3 Biggs”. I was thinking if it was the hero, then that would be case closed on Red 3 hero, but alas no closure. I have the “Blue 12” and “Blue 4 John D” pics, but the “Blue 3 Biggs” is long gone from thread due to a broken link to it. I have a few shots of Blue Leader before she became Red 2, but none with the little note taped up with “Blue Leader”, so am I missing that one? I've looked for “Blue 3 Biggs” on the following sites but can't find it:
Red 3 X-Wing Studio Model
BRUCE'S DOMAIN: Studio Model Reference X-Wing Fighter Red 3 Part 1
Nwerke I meant that there were 5 heros and 9 pyros, which would be 14 total like you said. I didn't mean 9 total. Your list is about the best list that can be deduced/speculated. Are the Red Leader rough pyro, Red 3 [rough] pyro, Red 6 (pyro??), and Red 10 proposed missing models, or is there photo evidence of their existence? Red 10 is odd, because it is scripted, with lines of dialogue, but is absent from the models. It would answer the question of which of the three methods of numbering 7 through 11 is correct if it existed.
Interesting ESB video grab, I guess we don't know as much as we think we do
Marko@Rockvoice
Well-Known Member
Maybe I am missing something here, but the more I compare these pictures that were said to be Red 6 - the more I am convinced that this is NOT the same bird:
compare the painted areas on the side + the canopy frame. AND - the upper laser canon is not red on the second picture.
If you look closely at the first picture... it looks like the stripes of the wing marking do not reach the full lenght - so ... maybe this is Red 10?
compare the painted areas on the side + the canopy frame. AND - the upper laser canon is not red on the second picture.
If you look closely at the first picture... it looks like the stripes of the wing marking do not reach the full lenght - so ... maybe this is Red 10?
jedimaster
Sr Member
I think the buttons on Murens shirt are a "found Part". Just goin through parts of star wars now.
jedimaster
Sr Member
That would be great Lee. Are yours the early 76 release or the later 78. I'm guessing the latter knowing the way you feel about ANH era stuff. Don't forget it's an informal shirt so only one button for each sleeve. YOU DA MAN!
There's a lot going on across that shirt. It appears to be covered in greeblies.
Maybe I am missing something here, but the more I compare these pictures that were said to be Red 6 - the more I am convinced that this is NOT the same bird:
compare the painted areas on the side + the canopy frame. AND - the upper laser canon is not red on the second picture.
If you look closely at the first picture... it looks like the stripes of the wing marking do not reach the full lenght - so ... maybe this is Red 10?
I gave that one a pass previously, assuming the Red 6 listing was correct. Now you got me thinking about it. Only one red canon on it, and it is starboard top while Red 6 had one starboard bottom and one port top. And the canopy is a gray or body color. Could be a Red 6 rough pyro. But looking at those wing stripes, they don't look like they extend to the 6th stripe. They look like they might stop at the fifth stripe, and it does look like they might be broken in the middle (very hard to discern). If it is a Red 10, then the wing markings go 1 through 6 long stripes, then start over with 3 broken stripes and one half stripe for Red 7 and work their way up to the 6 broken stripes of red 12. ......maybe.
jedimaster
Sr Member
Kevin can I get another look at that Muren Pic?
:facepalm:facepalm:facepalm :lol
Simon's sarcasm was directed at you, not with you, I'm afraid. It's a shot from the shooting for Star Wars. Plain and simple, as already stated: Muren's got hair, that tells you everything you need to know. :lol
Again, no offence. Your bounce back attitude - while initially annoying - does you credit.
Ah yeah - the general speculation has been that it is Red 10, IINM.
-... . .- --..
Sr Member
Certainly you can count to 3, no?
Repeat after me: one stripe, two stripes, three stripes. Aaaaaand, stop.
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