In googling it, I found there was a book from Lucasfilm called Sculpting the Galaxy. Is this picture and the one of the Y-Wings in that book?
X-Wing Research: Differences Between the Hero and Pyro Models
- Thread starter -... . .- --..
- Start date
In googling it, I found there was a book from Lucasfilm called Sculpting the Galaxy. Is this picture and the one of the Y-Wings in that book?
They didn't shoot multi-ship setups all at once like that.
My thought was that ships were shot as independent elements, but I wondered about that shot when the ship numbers seemed to match up. The pic probably was either staged or was just a shot of the models that were set off to the side during production. To achieve the 4 barrel rolling X-wings probably required them shot one at a time, and the camera was probably spun while the model stood still. In fact it might be the same model shot 4 times to achieve the affect since we only see them from the front, making them near impossible to tell apart. However the two Y-wings in that shot do not move independently in that shot, so they may have been shot together to eliminate one compositing element. I've got this pic from a thread on this forum that shows 3 X-Wings being shot together as one element, which suggests not all ships were shot all by their lonesome:
It also occurred to me that others may not have connected the picture of the 4 X-Wings with the Red Leaders and the pic with the 2 Y-Wings including triangles and the MOM model, so here they are together to fit the puzzle together. Notice the left corner of the Y-Wing shot, you can see Red Leader and Red 6:
ILMwannabe
Active Member
Some of those stands were apparently motorized and could "roll" the models. (I think the first two in the picture below are motorized). I believe that when you see a "barrel roll" it's the actual model rolling, not the camera (other movements nothwithstanding). They did the same with the Millenium Falcon in ESB & ROTJ.
There are several shots in ANH where the X-Wings roll, and they seem to use the nose mount or the butt mount for this.
However, there is evidence that most of the ships were shot seperately as you say. For example, we see the "Red Five" model several times in one shot (approaching the Deathstar, several scenes).
Perhaps to simplify things they were able to shoot a few together on those movable stands.
My thought was that ships were shot as independent elements, but I wondered about that shot when the ship numbers seemed to match up. The pic probably was either staged or was just a shot of the models that were set off to the side during production. To achieve the 4 barrel rolling X-wings probably required them shot one at a time, and the camera was probably spun while the model stood still. In fact it might be the same model shot 4 times to achieve the affect since we only see them from the front, making them near impossible to tell apart. However the two Y-wings in that shot do not move independently in that shot, so they may have been shot together to eliminate one compositing element. I've got this pic from a thread on this forum that shows 3 X-Wings being shot together as one element, which suggests not all ships were shot all by their lonesome:
Here's a pyro versus hero test. Which Red Leader is the pyro and which is the hero?
I'm thinking it's the first one with the gray droid. Am I right? Which also begs the next question, why are there two different droids for Red Leader that don't match the red R5 in the cockpit set?
I'm thinking it's the first one with the gray droid. Am I right? Which also begs the next question, why are there two different droids for Red Leader that don't match the red R5 in the cockpit set?
That's interesting. I've never noticed that one overhead shot was a pyro.
As to your question about why neither matches the red r5 in the cockpit shot: do you think anyone noticed? They seemed in a rush. It's a shame so much of the images don't match up upon closer inspection, but they were telling a story, and nitpicking by is, which is what we'll do, wasn't expected. So yeah, it's kind of frustrating trying to make a "correct" studio scale model sometimes.
And again: great find. Never noticed that!
As to your question about why neither matches the red r5 in the cockpit shot: do you think anyone noticed? They seemed in a rush. It's a shame so much of the images don't match up upon closer inspection, but they were telling a story, and nitpicking by is, which is what we'll do, wasn't expected. So yeah, it's kind of frustrating trying to make a "correct" studio scale model sometimes.
And again: great find. Never noticed that!
jedimaster
Sr Member
Both Pyro... Same model. Different droid.
Someone touched up the red wing paint on the top one then. They do look very much alike otherwise.
Had these pics a long time ago, and yeah, same model for me, with a few weather tweaks possibly (inside right lower wing, black stripe, raised plate chipping on red markings)?
Even the right side front canopy frame has the same chip, id love to see somebody prove that wrong, but that paintwork is too like for like IMO.
Lee
Even the right side front canopy frame has the same chip, id love to see somebody prove that wrong, but that paintwork is too like for like IMO.
Lee
imkold
New Member
I'd say both are hero: the side-covers on the bottom one aren't cast together with the fuselage, like on pyro; the wings are not castings of pyro wings either. The top one looks to me to be painted way too similar (though the photos are over/undersaturated) to be anything other than the same model.
Wow that got quick responses. So unanimous agreement between 4 people that they are the same model, but one says they're both pyro and one says both hero. Glad we straightened that out ~
That does tend to confirm my theory that there was some droid swapping going on between at least Red Leader and TIE Killer Y-Wing. But I wasn't sure if the removable droid was just on the hero ships, or the pyros had a droid plug too, for accessing the armature for mounting?
~That does tend to confirm my theory that there was some droid swapping going on between at least Red Leader and TIE Killer Y-Wing. But I wasn't sure if the removable droid was just on the hero ships, or the pyros had a droid plug too, for accessing the armature for mounting?
jedimaster
Sr Member
Could be right on hero. I'm on the iPhone at the mo but in that light the nose looks pyro. However I think that's the hero paintwork. I dunno I need a bigger screen.
Both shots are the hero model. The Red 1 pyro was more similar to the hero paint scheme than some hero/pyro pairs, but not THAT similar. It had the big blast mark and replacement white panel, but lots of detail differences. There wasn't much effort to get all blast marks and weathering identical. These are identical.
Scott, it could be a touchup or the opposite; the red wing markings were hit with some steel wool *after* the upper photo was taken.
Scott, it could be a touchup or the opposite; the red wing markings were hit with some steel wool *after* the upper photo was taken.
Colin Droidmilk
Sr Member
Both are hero. Also, on top of the identical weathering, it'd be extremely weird if one were pyro and one hero, since the exceedingly thin and decidedly unique canopy frame looks the same in both.
Also, just to add, the Hero Red Leader, DID have a red R2 fitted at one point too, so that makes, what, three different droids for this bird alone?
One thing that DOES distinguish the Leader Hero, from Pyro, is the underside.....the Pyro has a big masked off dark patch of blah, right under the front hull, sadly, no ref is about to prove this like for like.
There is however, an ILM pic, that (i believe) shows both birds in the same shot, Hero in the foreground, and a freshly painted Leader in the back, ill see if i can find it!
lee
One thing that DOES distinguish the Leader Hero, from Pyro, is the underside.....the Pyro has a big masked off dark patch of blah, right under the front hull, sadly, no ref is about to prove this like for like.
There is however, an ILM pic, that (i believe) shows both birds in the same shot, Hero in the foreground, and a freshly painted Leader in the back, ill see if i can find it!
lee
You are correct sir, they are both Red Leader. You can see the wing markings in a second pic that shows the two Y-Wings to the side of those models (for some reason your pic is reversed from the way it is usually posted, I don't know if you corrected it):
Thanks, I'd like to see that Red Leader with Red droid. The only pics I have of Red Leader have the gray R2 or black w/ white R2. Looking at the Y-Wing pic, the orientation of the Ys is correct, so the X-Wing pic should have them facing to the left and not the right to match up with Red Leader and Red 6 that can be seen behind the Ys.
Similar threads
