X-Wing Research: Differences Between the Hero and Pyro Models

So I want to interject a question that is different from the current discussion but fits into the overall;

Is there a difference between the R2 unit castings between the Hero and Pyro?

Obviously the hero models have a separate part R2 and the pyro models have a one piece droid strip and R2. But I heard someone refer to the pyro R2's as "egghead"?
I thought the pryo was just a casting of a completed hero strip with the R2 molded in. Is that true or is there a difference in the shape

And while we are on the topic, I just got my R2 casting from Brundelfly's run. I plan to sculpt a body for the head based on the MR Red 3 pictures and try to clean up the generational inherited bubbles and soft details. I dont like to tweak things that are cast from original and my cleanup will be minimal.

To help with this, does anyone have some good pictures of original R2 units they could share? I havent been able to find any but you experts probably know where to look. Thanks.
 
None handy at the moment. I think its referred to as an egghead because it is not a true half sphere. I have a hunch that it was kit-bashed from the nose of one of those 1/24 Airfix kits.

Our very own Treadwell had some shots from a Pyro display at a Disney location. With those photos is a close up of an exploded X that has the droid attached. Gene (forgot his RPF name at the moment) has some shots from a unpainted, but primed, production Pyro from ANH recently for auction. Its the tallest version of the R2 I've seen, and is glued right on top.

RE: construction

The Pyro fuselages were left and right sides. The kitbashed detailed assemblies appear to be the same Hero and Pyro alike. R2 would have fallen into this category. The droid strips/plate are all cast parts, even appearing on death star surface tiles. The bits on the wings, all casts from kitbashed masters.

There is no indentation or step on the fuselage for the R2, only a angled ramp for the channel of the droid detail strip/plate. The builder would have to decide exactly where to place these parts.

EDIT: Observe the ramp on this Hero style buck. It would have been the same on the Pyro just with a seam down the middle.
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Thanks for the picture.
I have seen those pictures of the parts at Disney. Those are the ones I have been looking at. I will have to hit up Gene for those pictures he has.

So the hole for the R2 would be cut out on each x-wing model be it Hero or Pyro.

Is that why the pyro strip casting I have looks like this and does not have a cut our or R2 in it?
strip-1.jpg


In the below picture of the Disney pyro,
is the R2 not cast in but just glued onto a strip that started out looking like the above picture?

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How come this pyro looks like its glued right on the surface and the Red 3 Hero looks like its inset into a hole? Did they trim the pyro R2 to a different height so they could glue it right on the surface instead of cutting out an inset?

I dont suppose anyone has a full casting of an R2?
If they were all the same and not cast into the droid strip on the pyros, how come my casting from a pyro is just the head and top of the shoulders instead of the full amount of R2 I can see on other models?

I hope I am understanding you correctly.
 
Oh man, I've longed for a high-res version of those sunglasses pics since I was ten. :) I assume the sunglasses were to provide scale.

Jason, thanks for the pic. Also the rubber band isn't in any doubt, remember this? :)
 
I know no one has posted to this thread in over a year, but there was a lot of details about the different studio models. Unfortunately most of the pictures to go with the information have broken links, making it hard to follow the comments and descriptions. I don't know if it was in this thread or another where someone mentioned putting all the reference photos of the studio X-Wings in one thread, did anyone end up doing that?

I noticed that it was mentioned there were 5 hero ships built. In my 2006 original theatrical version DVD, I can see 4 hero models in the "lock S-foils" shot flying in a row all in one shot that does not appear composted. There seems to be an agreement that there were heros for Red Leader, Blue Leader/Red 2, Red 3 and Red 5; but no clear answer to what the 5th hero was. With my new knowledge, I'm starting to pick out obvious "nice" pyro models in the footage and looking for heros. Has anyone done an analysis of the original theatrical footage used of the models and identified what models made it to the finished film?
 
The thread you need is STUCK at the top of the page. Hero's 1,2,3&5 . Pyro's 1,2,3,4,6&12.

Thanks, I have been through the list of threads on that sticky and did not see one dedicated to just reference pics, so I'm assuming that's a no on a thread for reference pics. The pics are still just littered over many threads, and I need to scroll through all of them to find them.

I also don't see a thread reviewing the shot by shot in the theatrical release identifying which models are used in those shots. I think I may cobble one together.
 
There was a thread which attempted to pool all the ref pics, and it hauled a ton of 'em together but it wasn't included in the sticky. Dunno why not...
 
One ship I have not seen any mention of is Red 10. It's conspicuous by its absence since it is in the script and there are scenes with the pilot. Red 12 got a model, and there are no scenes with its pilot except maybe the destruction of Red 10 pilot shot with the Wes Janson helmet. Red 10 would be interesting, because its stripe pattern would indicate how the appearance of Red 7 through 9, and Red 11 should appear. Since Red Leader through Red 6 show a progression of six stripes going to the end of the wing stripe, and Red 12 shows six stripes with mid breaks, what would Red 10's pattern be? Would it be five stripes with breaks or would it be four stripes with breaks and then two short stripes? If they never built a Red 10, then will never know for sure which is correct.
 
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I was looking at the images above and had a few thoughts (I swiped the images from other threads and reposted them here so that could be viewed side by side rather than linking to three different threads and having people hunt for them). These two pics and the snapshot from the video all appear to be on the same table with the same models, probably on the same day. I remember seeing these images in books in 1977 and 1978, and seeing these models for the very first time apart from the theatrical release. The consensus among forum posters is pretty consistent that the line of X-Wings from wall to front are Red 6, Red 12, Red 4, pyro Red Leader, hero Red 5, hero Red Leader, and pyro Red 3. This video snippet seems to be the same order only the back three of 6, 12 and 4 are set to the left, with hero 5, hero Leader and pyro 3 on the right, and pyro Leader being hand held behind them. The Y-Wings appear to be Gold 2 (MOM tour model), Gold Leader (TIE Killer) and Gold 5 (triangles), and I'm assuming they are heros. This is a pretty informative picture because it shows the all of these models in existence at the same time and sets the minimum of possible models used. What's interesting is the models that are missing. Conspicuous by their absence are Red Jammer and Blue Leader/Red 2. That makes me wonder if this shot was set up early in the model production when those two models were off in the UK for reference for the full scale set builds, and perhaps the publicity shot was set up to showcase all the models they had finished at that point (hey guys, we're having pictures tomorrow, wear your best pair of cutoff shorts). They have an example of each of the scripted pilots' ships (except for Red 10, which doesn't seem to have evidence it was built), which makes sense. There's a pyro Red 2 standing in for the presumably vacationing hero Blue Leader/ Red 2. But it's odd that they have both a pyro Red Leader and the hero. And they have a pyro Red 3 on the table instead of the hero. I makes me wonder if they hadn't finished building the hero Red 3 at that point or if it was otherwise unavailable at the time of the shoot. There isn't a pyro Red 5 in the bunch either, which I've seen some people list as one of the "nice" pyros and others leave off (obviously Red 5 and Red 2 did not need true pyros as they survived, but the "nice" pyros appear to be additional models for shooting). There's also another Y-Wing missing, referred to as blue/gray in another thread (maybe this was Keyan Farlander's bird flying away from the Death Star at the end). Anybody have some thoughts?
 
It's known that the original Pyro's ie with the hero/nice paintjobs as seen on the table top pix were used in the initial shots. Lucas later decided they needed to be more spectacular and called in a pyrotechnic expert to complete the shots. For those they used more dare I say badly or hurriedly painted models. You can see an example of this in the Japanese magazine shot with a dodgy looking red 4 pyro leaning against a shelf or something. Also note that the "triangles" y was rigged as a pyro model and blown to smithers.
 
It's known that the original Pyro's ie with the hero/nice paintjobs as seen on the table top pix were used in the initial shots. Lucas later decided they needed to be more spectacular and called in a pyrotechnic expert to complete the shots. For those they used more dare I say badly or hurriedly painted models. You can see an example of this in the Japanese magazine shot with a dodgy looking red 4 pyro leaning against a shelf or something. Also note that the "triangles" y was rigged as a pyro model and blown to smithers.

I just got done watching the 2006 theatrical DVD and BluRay battle scenes back to back, with judicious pausing. I can't believe how well the original model tracking shots hold, and how much more convincing the models are when compared to the CGI model (which seems more animated).

I heard about there being two sets of pyro shots being done, because Lucas wanted a fireball explosion (plasma explosion?) and was not satisfied with the initial attempts. Now those first attempts might have consumed the "nice" pyros and they built new "rough" pyros for the second 'splosions, or did they always have "rough" pyros for the intial and second explosions? As far as I can tell, those "nice" pyros had armatures in them and may have had the engine lights too. The true pyros should have been plastic shells and pre-scored to break apart. The existence of Red Leader and Red 2 "nice" pyros doesn't make sense either, as neither of those ships exploded on screen. They were both hit by green blaster fire, but the damage to the ships was an optical effect, Red 2 got away and Red Leader's crash is a charge going off on the Death Star surface with no ship present. When I was just watching the scenes, I was taking note of the pyros and I could not see markings on the ships, but Red 6 had some stick guns when going up, Red 4 was its own explosion, Red 12 went up with whatever ship stood in for Red 10 composted next to it, and Red 5's explosion was a repeat of Red 10's. So there were 4 pyro X-Wings that got blow'd up good that made it to the final cut. All of them sweet fireballs. I could not make out a Red 6 or Red 12 "nice" pyro model (I'll keep looking), but when Red 4 is being chased by the TIE, you can see the bottom of his ship and I count 4 stripes on it. Next time I'm going to watch it with my computer in front of me with reference pics up and see if I can spot the "nice" pyros from the heros (I swear several of the Red 5 shots look like a "nice" pyro). I know in the two shots of X-wings leaving the moon and approaching the Death Star they are hero versions because their wings are closed. The the four ships heading toward the Death Star when the lock S-foils are definitely heros. But I'm wondering if the ships with exhaust lights are only heros, or if there were "nice" pyros equipped with engine lights too? If not, that certainly limits the scenes of any "nice" pyros to front or side shots.

After reviewing the Y-wing threads some more, I realized I reversed the MOM model and the blue/gray model. From what I've read, the MOM tour model is a pyro that survived ANH and was detailed for use in ESB. The blue/gray apparently is Tiree's ship, and I can definitely see it flying next to Gold Leader in his cockpit shots and then again when flying at the camera in the trench and from the side. The extra yellow panel on the front left side and the missing yellow stripes on the engines are a clear indicator. Unfortunately the TIE Killer has some weathering on the engine domes around the same area that the triangles are on the other ship, which makes it hard to tell them apart in fast moving shots. I see the TIE Killer has a gray canopy, so I'm going to watch for that next time in the trench. But I do see that when Gold Leader is in his cockpit getting ready for his run, the two ships outside are the blue/gray and the TIE Killer, ooops! Maybe Pops flies the TIE Killer instead? The surviving Y-Wing has marks on the engines when it is leaving the Death Star, but it is not clear if it is the triangles or TIE Killer ship (I guess it might be a force ghost of the ship, the other ships appear to be Red Leader and Red 3 too). The three pyrotechnics of the Y-Wings appear to be different shots or 3 separate pyros. All three Y-Wings when viewed from the back have engine lights, but I noticed a few of the Y-Wing shots are reuses.

I might have to try cutting the model shots together for a YouTube video for analysis sometime down the line.
 
Like this....im probably onto nothing, but see what you guys think!

lee

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Does anyone know where this picture comes from? I've only seen it twice, along with the pic to the right of it showing the triangles and MOM Y-Wings, on this forum and another. It's a pretty important pic, because it shows several of the models together and some of them are not even finished being painted. The fact that there are two Y-Wings and 4 X-Wings makes me wonder if this was setting up for the shot after Red Leader says he's "going to cut across their axis and try and draw their fire" and then the 4 X-Wings barrel role one at a time towards the bottom of the frame while the 2 Y-Wings fly flat on the top of the frame?
 
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