leatherneck
Well-Known Member
Welcome to the Lair Wyatt. It is great to hear your story, hopefully the first of many.
Wyatt Weed, The Lost Predator...
- Thread starter Wyatt Weed
- Start date
torredator
New Member
Wyatt welcome aboard the Predator nut house, can't wait to read more of your tales! ~Lou~
Wyatt Weed
New Member
Wow!! You guys are without a doubt the most friendly and pleasant bunch I have ever encountered on the net! Seriously - I rarely say much anywhere else because it just gets SO nasty. And you're PREDATORS!!
I didn't think I would get back on so soon, but I decided I had to. First things first - how I met Steve Wang and why that matters...
In 1987 I was a young geek in St. Louis making super 8 films and working at a local cable company so I could use their gear and editing system. This was still A.D. - the analog days. Bell & Howell cameras and 3/4 inch video tape. Man, how things have changed. That summer, this amazing film called Predator blew through the theatres, and my filmmaking friend Ted Smith and I ate up Cinefantastique and Fangoria, absorbing everything about the film. We became familiar with the name Steve Wang, a crew member who worked on the suits and who had also done the Creature from Monster Squad. Steve and a few others were really instrumental in developing modern suit techniques to where they are today.
Cut to 1990 and Ted and I are struggling actors/special effects techs in Los Angeles, living the high life in the San Fernando Valley. Ted comes home from a shop one day and says "I met STEVE WANG!!" I knew right away who this guy was. While he didn't design the predator head, he was key in designing and developing the overall look, sculpting the body, and he came up with the awesome, nature-inspired paint scheme. His philosophy was "Form follows function", and when the first predator had failed, Steve was a big proponent of taking it back to a "man in a suit" concept.
Failed predator? I assume you all know this story, but in case some of you don't, here goes: When they were initially shooting Predator, Boss film was involved. A lot of other make-up people, including Steve Johnson, had done a more alien design with cool, multi-jointed legs and a more-insect-like head. It was tall, and was supported by an overhead wire rig. They hired someone physically fit to be in the suit, and that was Jean Claude Van Damme. Jean Claude got all excited and talked about how he was going to be able to kick very high with the leg extensions, and all of these things he could do, because he was a martial artist. The suit guys looked at him and said "No - you're going to be in a hot jungle wearing a foam suit and hanging from wires and you're not going to be able to do any of that". Jean Claude kept insisting that he would be able to do some great things, and the make-up guys were trying politely to adjust his reality.
So they get the original suit and Jean Claude down into the jungle. Now, I don't know Jean Claude, and I wasn't there. Jean Claude is probably a cool guy. But I heard these stories repeatedly from people who were there. One story was that Jean Claude wanted to be featured more as an actor, that he wanted the suit to be modified so that his face would show. "I'm an actor, I want people to be able to see my face". Another story was that his command of English wasn't that good yet, so he once said "Don't be a dumby" instead of saying "Don't be dumb" or "Don't be stupid", which of course led the young, smart-ass effects team to refer to him as "Jean Claude Van Dumby".
So, they get JCVD in the suit, hang it from wires, and it's a disaster. He can't move, it's hard to do wires in the jungle, and JCVD supposedly freaked out from the heat and the claustrophobia and begged them to get him out of the suit. Having been in similar situations several times, I get it - being in a predator suit was the closest I've ever come in my adult life to passing out. You're trapped and isolated, hot and squeezed. It's like sensory deprivation. Rumor has it that Tim Curry lost it once and ripped his way out of the devil suit on Legend.
The film crew realizes that this isn't working, call for a break in shooting, and go back to LA to re-think the monster. Enter Stan Winston. One of the big new ideas is that even though the first suit design was cool, you needed practical and workable, and fast. There have been some amazing alien designs (Starship Troopers, Carpenter's The Thing, Cloverfield) but when you need practical and functional on camera before the days of CGI, you went simple - man in a suit. Some of the best creatures ever were just a well-designed man in a suit - The Creature From The Black Lagoon, the 1951 The Thing, The Metaluna Mutant, The Alien - all just a modified human form.
So Stan gets his crew in motion quickly (I don't think they had more than a few months) and Matt Rose and Steve Wand and others basically finish writing the book on how to make a creature suit. Some of the stuff is so simple, like the seams of the different parts of the suit being hidden by armor and decoration. The color mimics the natural coloration of Earth creatures we are familiar with. And the actor's eyes are still used, eyes being one of the most difficult things to re-create convincingly.
They get back down in the jungle, and the rest is history - one of the best creatures ever, and my friend Ted has now met one of the guys responsible for this. I get to meet Steve, and it turns out Steve is working on his own film, a kung-fu comedy called "Kung Fu Rascals". It is a super 8 feature, and he's already shot a trailer and raised money, so Ted and I climb on and spend 60 days over the next 9 months shooting with Steve, learning and soaking up every bit of knowledge he has. I built models and props and costumes, shot some of the scenes, and even played Raspmutant, the Mad Monk, a 300 pound pig man. This leads to me meeting Brian Simpson, Steve's friend from the Predator shoot, my chance at being a predator, and then Ted and I get drawn into Steve's next three films - "Guyver", "Guyver: Dark Hero", and "Drive". On Guyver, Ted and I both worked in the creature shop, and Ted played the Zoanoid "Stryker" in the film. In Guyver: Dark Hero, I moved up to associate producer and second unit director, as well as doing other creature shop work whenever I could. On Drive I was second unit and miniature supervisor.
Steve Wang and the Predator. Big influences in my career. Steve is an incredibly talented guy, and I learned so many things from him, much of which is reflected in my daily work. He recently produced the new "Kamen Rider: Dragon Knight" series that ran on the CW, and wrote and directed many of the episodes. He's currently prepping a film that should start shooting in January. It's great to see him doing another feature.
One final story for this episode of The Lost Predator: There is a famous color shot of the Predator from P1 that appeared on magazines and in articles. It is a studio-style shot, used to promote the film. Well, while filming in Mexico, they saved the stunt where the log falls on the predator as the last thing to shoot, because they were running out of suits and time and money. The log falls on the suit, smashes it, and they wrap. Later, the studio calls and says "we need beauty shots of the Predator, now!" Steve and Matt actually got the smashed suit, repaired it and fixed it up, and that is the suit in those classic beauty shots.
Ah, Hollywood.
Take care,
Wyatt Weed
I didn't think I would get back on so soon, but I decided I had to. First things first - how I met Steve Wang and why that matters...
In 1987 I was a young geek in St. Louis making super 8 films and working at a local cable company so I could use their gear and editing system. This was still A.D. - the analog days. Bell & Howell cameras and 3/4 inch video tape. Man, how things have changed. That summer, this amazing film called Predator blew through the theatres, and my filmmaking friend Ted Smith and I ate up Cinefantastique and Fangoria, absorbing everything about the film. We became familiar with the name Steve Wang, a crew member who worked on the suits and who had also done the Creature from Monster Squad. Steve and a few others were really instrumental in developing modern suit techniques to where they are today.
Cut to 1990 and Ted and I are struggling actors/special effects techs in Los Angeles, living the high life in the San Fernando Valley. Ted comes home from a shop one day and says "I met STEVE WANG!!" I knew right away who this guy was. While he didn't design the predator head, he was key in designing and developing the overall look, sculpting the body, and he came up with the awesome, nature-inspired paint scheme. His philosophy was "Form follows function", and when the first predator had failed, Steve was a big proponent of taking it back to a "man in a suit" concept.
Failed predator? I assume you all know this story, but in case some of you don't, here goes: When they were initially shooting Predator, Boss film was involved. A lot of other make-up people, including Steve Johnson, had done a more alien design with cool, multi-jointed legs and a more-insect-like head. It was tall, and was supported by an overhead wire rig. They hired someone physically fit to be in the suit, and that was Jean Claude Van Damme. Jean Claude got all excited and talked about how he was going to be able to kick very high with the leg extensions, and all of these things he could do, because he was a martial artist. The suit guys looked at him and said "No - you're going to be in a hot jungle wearing a foam suit and hanging from wires and you're not going to be able to do any of that". Jean Claude kept insisting that he would be able to do some great things, and the make-up guys were trying politely to adjust his reality.
So they get the original suit and Jean Claude down into the jungle. Now, I don't know Jean Claude, and I wasn't there. Jean Claude is probably a cool guy. But I heard these stories repeatedly from people who were there. One story was that Jean Claude wanted to be featured more as an actor, that he wanted the suit to be modified so that his face would show. "I'm an actor, I want people to be able to see my face". Another story was that his command of English wasn't that good yet, so he once said "Don't be a dumby" instead of saying "Don't be dumb" or "Don't be stupid", which of course led the young, smart-ass effects team to refer to him as "Jean Claude Van Dumby".
So, they get JCVD in the suit, hang it from wires, and it's a disaster. He can't move, it's hard to do wires in the jungle, and JCVD supposedly freaked out from the heat and the claustrophobia and begged them to get him out of the suit. Having been in similar situations several times, I get it - being in a predator suit was the closest I've ever come in my adult life to passing out. You're trapped and isolated, hot and squeezed. It's like sensory deprivation. Rumor has it that Tim Curry lost it once and ripped his way out of the devil suit on Legend.
The film crew realizes that this isn't working, call for a break in shooting, and go back to LA to re-think the monster. Enter Stan Winston. One of the big new ideas is that even though the first suit design was cool, you needed practical and workable, and fast. There have been some amazing alien designs (Starship Troopers, Carpenter's The Thing, Cloverfield) but when you need practical and functional on camera before the days of CGI, you went simple - man in a suit. Some of the best creatures ever were just a well-designed man in a suit - The Creature From The Black Lagoon, the 1951 The Thing, The Metaluna Mutant, The Alien - all just a modified human form.
So Stan gets his crew in motion quickly (I don't think they had more than a few months) and Matt Rose and Steve Wand and others basically finish writing the book on how to make a creature suit. Some of the stuff is so simple, like the seams of the different parts of the suit being hidden by armor and decoration. The color mimics the natural coloration of Earth creatures we are familiar with. And the actor's eyes are still used, eyes being one of the most difficult things to re-create convincingly.
They get back down in the jungle, and the rest is history - one of the best creatures ever, and my friend Ted has now met one of the guys responsible for this. I get to meet Steve, and it turns out Steve is working on his own film, a kung-fu comedy called "Kung Fu Rascals". It is a super 8 feature, and he's already shot a trailer and raised money, so Ted and I climb on and spend 60 days over the next 9 months shooting with Steve, learning and soaking up every bit of knowledge he has. I built models and props and costumes, shot some of the scenes, and even played Raspmutant, the Mad Monk, a 300 pound pig man. This leads to me meeting Brian Simpson, Steve's friend from the Predator shoot, my chance at being a predator, and then Ted and I get drawn into Steve's next three films - "Guyver", "Guyver: Dark Hero", and "Drive". On Guyver, Ted and I both worked in the creature shop, and Ted played the Zoanoid "Stryker" in the film. In Guyver: Dark Hero, I moved up to associate producer and second unit director, as well as doing other creature shop work whenever I could. On Drive I was second unit and miniature supervisor.
Steve Wang and the Predator. Big influences in my career. Steve is an incredibly talented guy, and I learned so many things from him, much of which is reflected in my daily work. He recently produced the new "Kamen Rider: Dragon Knight" series that ran on the CW, and wrote and directed many of the episodes. He's currently prepping a film that should start shooting in January. It's great to see him doing another feature.
One final story for this episode of The Lost Predator: There is a famous color shot of the Predator from P1 that appeared on magazines and in articles. It is a studio-style shot, used to promote the film. Well, while filming in Mexico, they saved the stunt where the log falls on the predator as the last thing to shoot, because they were running out of suits and time and money. The log falls on the suit, smashes it, and they wrap. Later, the studio calls and says "we need beauty shots of the Predator, now!" Steve and Matt actually got the smashed suit, repaired it and fixed it up, and that is the suit in those classic beauty shots.
Ah, Hollywood.
Take care,
Wyatt Weed
Origami Unicorn
Sr Member
Dude, you are so epic
roninpredator
Sr Member
WOW!!
I'm dumbfounded,crazy how they fixed the suit after being smashed
Thank you for sharing these stories with us.
Anxiously await for more
I'm dumbfounded,crazy how they fixed the suit after being smashed
Thank you for sharing these stories with us.
Anxiously await for more
StoneHeart
New Member
... Marry me?
predator666
New Member
I literally clinged onto every word I just read and thank you so much for sharing your stroy with us Wyatt. It's very much appreciated and would love to hear more
PredatrHuntr
Master Member
Thank you, thank you for sharing with us...
ptgreek
Active Member
Hey Wyatt ...do you know the story of what FOX wanted to use as the Predator between the JCVD suit and the concepts that Robert Short was developing for a new Predator? It was a two week period that all concept work was halted, because execs at the studio had an "easy fix" idea for their monster. ...Thought Id let you tell the story if you knew it ....just had a great talk with Shane Mahon and Robert short the other day about this ..the story is pretty amazing
MEANGENE83
Sr Member
This is so cool! Is there any way the MODS can combine this thread with the other to keep them from getting lost in the mix and jumbled around the lair?
Thanks again Wyatt. Us fanboys can't get enough of it!
Thanks again Wyatt. Us fanboys can't get enough of it!
Wyatt Weed
New Member
Is this the "Masai Warrior" concept? I have read that there was a brief experimentation where they basically tried to re-dress the original suit, and add mandibles and other things to it. Sounds like you may have a more in depth version. Tell us!
Estelle
New Member
Wow! ..all so very interesting. What amazing experiences, especially about you getting to meet Mr. Wang for the first time. I bet that was insane, lol! I couldn’t imagine meeting one of my film idols. Your post here is a treasure trove of valuable Predator film factoids! I love it, please keep it coming
Thanks so much for sharing..Too funny about Van Damme and his command of English. Not to long ago there was a shot of an interview a member posted here featuring him ( Vane Damme) He talking about his role in the “ Pred-eater” as he called it. Lol. Too funny.
Thanks Wyatt, many, many thanks!
~Estelle
Thanks so much for sharing..Too funny about Van Damme and his command of English. Not to long ago there was a shot of an interview a member posted here featuring him ( Vane Damme) He talking about his role in the “ Pred-eater” as he called it. Lol. Too funny.
Thanks Wyatt, many, many thanks!
~Estelle
ptgreek
Active Member
Yes ..Robert was in charge of coming up with concept art for a new predator when the movie was still called "Hunter"... one of his artists drew a very primitive sketch of a masai warrior. McTiernen loved it and the design progressed with a more claw like mandible system and virtually the same P1 bio helmet. Robert was called on to other jobs and the designs were passed on to Stan..but not before this happened: FOX decided to halt all concepts on a new creature suit ..production was already behind and getting costly ...they decided a quick fix would be to place on already existing creature from their franchises in this film ..this being "The Alien" from the Alien films ...for nearly two weeks this was to be the creature for Predator. John flipped out and insisted that his creature be an original design..eventually they moved on with What Steve, Matt and Pat Mcgee would start work on. Pretty amazing, huh? to think how film history could have been altered on so many fronts if this decision was greenlit
here are some of those early concept pieces. Bob is actually going to donate all the early concept art ( Huge Life size pics) to the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences
So glad you found your way here Wyatt, while I found my way to Hollywood FX later in life, many of those from that day have become good friends.
Wyatt Weed
New Member
Yes ..Robert was in charge of coming up with concept art for a new predator when the movie was still called "Hunter"... one of his artists drew a very primitive sketch of a masai warrior. McTiernen loved it and the design progressed with a more claw like mandible system and virtually the same P1 bio helmet. Robert was called on to other jobs and the designs were passed on to Stan..but not before this happened: FOX decided to halt all concepts on a new creature suit ..production was already behind and getting costly ...they decided a quick fix would be to place on already existing creature from their franchises in this film ..this being "The Alien" from the Alien films ...for nearly two weeks this was to be the creature for Predator. John flipped out and insisted that his creature be an original design..eventually they moved on with What Steve, Matt and Pat Mcgee would start work on. Pretty amazing, huh? to think how film history could have been altered on so many fronts if this decision was greenlit
here are some of those early concept pieces. Bob is actually going to donate all the early concept art ( Huge Life size pics) to the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences
So glad you found your way here Wyatt, while I found my way to Hollywood FX later in life, many of those from that day have become good friends.
Re-dressing the Alien suit...God, that would have sucked!! I did not know this. So lucky it didn't happen. The fans would have had that version for breakfast...
Mr Fett
Sr Member
Thank you again for the stories, Wyatt. We soak up your tales like a sponge. Especially the group of us around the Lair who consider all those shortly seen Predators on the ship at the end of Predator 2, our favorite designs of all 5 Predator movies to date. The "Lost Hunters" as this message board named them years ago are my personal favorites !!! Many unique skin tone colors and designs, showing us that like human beings, Predators come in all sort of different skin tones and looks.
Can you enlighten us on something.... I once talked to an older member here who had heard from someone who had been working at Winston Studios during the filming of Predator 2 that more scenes were shot aboard the ship with the other Predators (such as the one you played) that never made the final cut. He told me some of what he was told was "supposed" to happen during that section of the movie, and that they were actually filming more than what we saw in the final copy that hit the theaters.
Can you enlighten us on something.... I once talked to an older member here who had heard from someone who had been working at Winston Studios during the filming of Predator 2 that more scenes were shot aboard the ship with the other Predators (such as the one you played) that never made the final cut. He told me some of what he was told was "supposed" to happen during that section of the movie, and that they were actually filming more than what we saw in the final copy that hit the theaters.
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