Wheel of Time being made into a TV series

harrisonp

Sr Member
If this can be somewhere between LOTR, and GoT then I’m in. I want a positive fantasy show that I can dig into (no rape, gratuitous murder, etc). The magic use looks a little hokey, kind of reminds me of The Last Airbender (movie) or Shadow and Bone on Netflix. I’ll give it a fair watch though regardless.
 

Paul Andrew

Sr Member
If this can be somewhere between LOTR, and GoT then I’m in. I want a positive fantasy show that I can dig into (no rape, gratuitous murder, etc). The magic use looks a little hokey, kind of reminds me of The Last Airbender (movie) or Shadow and Bone on Netflix. I’ll give it a fair watch though regardless.
The books aren't anywhere near as dark as GoT, though there are moments. The books often cut to black when they happen, we'll see how the show handles them.
 

Gator Fett

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
If this can be somewhere between LOTR, and GoT then I’m in. I want a positive fantasy show that I can dig into (no rape, gratuitous murder, etc). The magic use looks a little hokey, kind of reminds me of The Last Airbender (movie) or Shadow and Bone on Netflix. I’ll give it a fair watch though regardless.
I think the in-between is where this show is going to land. Like Paul said, the books left the more gratuitous parts out and in many ways was more like LOTR. From what's been discussed in the fan community and what has been shown in the trailer, they are leaning towards a little more mature take on the story.

The relationship between Rand and Egwene is a good example. It looks like the show will be taking it past the puppy love and "we were promised to each other" stage, and into an actual physical relationship. While there was plenty of non-sexual nudity in the books, I think the show will bring in some 50 Shades of Gray type scenes.

There was plenty of gore in books, and some off screen gratuitous murder. I'm curious to see how they handle this as well.
 

Paul Andrew

Sr Member
Well, I'm pretty impressed so far. There's a LOT of condensing and shuffling around, but they've gone to great lengths to nail the feel of the novels and I'm pretty happy so far. Part of that is recognizing that as an adaptation of a series millions of words long, things are going to be cut, and getting myself OK with that as a WoT diehard. I especially like how NOT GoT it is.
 

Paul Andrew

Sr Member
Is anyone who didn't read the novels watching this? I'm interested in how the big reveal in episode 7 came across to non-readers, in particular.
 

firesprite

Master Member
Is anyone who didn't read the novels watching this? I'm interested in how the big reveal in episode 7 came across to non-readers, in particular.
I read like the first 6 books 20+ years ago. I remember only the broadest strokes of the story, but I have been very much enjoying the show so far. Although I did remember the biggest reveal, I still feel like it was presented well.
 

Solo4114

Master Member
Is anyone who didn't read the novels watching this? I'm interested in how the big reveal in episode 7 came across to non-readers, in particular.
I'm watching and haven't read any of the novels.

Buuut I also haven't watched Episode 7 yet, so I have no reaction to any reveals.

Thus far, I've found the "reveals" on the show to be pretty transparent and obvious. That's not a bad thing, it's just not like "OHMYGOD!!! I NEVER SAW THAT COMING!!" The story seems pretty straightforward fantasy tropes. I'm fine with that. I'm generally enjoying it. It's made me curious to at least pick up a copy of the 1st book (or I will soon, anyway), but while I've enjoyed the show and overall story, it's just been pretty much "Yeah, this is basically the kind of stuff I ate up when I was about 12 or 13."
 

Paul Andrew

Sr Member
The first book, which this season pulls most from, leans heavily on Tolkienistic tropes so you're not far off in your assessment, and the reveal in episode 7 is more of a confirmation of what you already knew by the time it's equivalent happens in the book.

The series deviates from those tropes the farther you go, getting into full on political intrigue stuff by book 4, but the show is already leaning into some of that which I'm glad to see.
 

Solo4114

Master Member
The first book, which this season pulls most from, leans heavily on Tolkienistic tropes so you're not far off in your assessment, and the reveal in episode 7 is more of a confirmation of what you already knew by the time it's equivalent happens in the book.

The series deviates from those tropes the farther you go, getting into full on political intrigue stuff by book 4, but the show is already leaning into some of that which I'm glad to see.

So, I finished the series a few weeks ago, and wound up buying the first book, which I've started reading.

If the Episode 7 "reveal" is that
Rand is the Dragon
, then, no, that wasn't much of a reveal. I had theorized that maybe this was something that was gonna play with the underlying concept and, say,
split the role of the Dragon across multiple characters who all kinda form Captain Plan---er----the Dragon
, but I wasn't super surprised that it went the way it did. I was more surprised by
Moiraine being gay and her girlfriend being the head of the Aes Sedai, who was in on everything with her. If this is in the book, that's surprisingly progressive for 1990.

I've noticed a lot of heavy Tolkien bits. A long intro (in the book) about mundane life in the village before a big party, black riders, an escape to a ferry, blah blah. I don't mind it, it's just wearing your influences on your sleeves. I doubt if I wrote a work of scifi/space fantasy I'd be able to do it in a way that didn't evoke Star Wars, at least at first blush even if I added in a bunch of layers and complexity later. Also spotted some Dune in there with the "Fremen-but-please-don't-sue-the-Jordan-estate" desert wasteland people.

Anyway, I thought the first season was decent and entertaining, and so far I'm liking the book although they're just getting to the part where Tam and Rand are getting to the village after the Trolloc attack, which happens a little differently on the show.

The show is VERY much condensed, but I don't think that's a bad thing. The stuff that's in the book...I get why it's there, but (so far) some of it seems a bit self-indulgent. I'm hopeful that it pays off more later and what you're really getting is a LOT of layering and foreshadowing that, without the benefit of hindsight, just seems like a meandering narrative in need of an editor and the "kill your darlings" treatment. If, by the time I get to, like, book 5 all the stuff about the village council and who these people are and all the back and forth stuff ends up mattering, then fine. Otherwise, I think it makes sense to have cut it for the show because it really is extraneous and just kind of "Life in the village is village-y." Right. Got it. Village-y. Stands to reason. OH, LIGHT! YOUR BUCOLIC EXISTENCE HAS BEEN SHATTERED BY THE FORCES OF DARKNESS!!! WHO COULD HAVE FORESEEN THIS?!?!? ;)

It's trope-y. Which I expected. The show was trope-y. The concept itself is trope-y. I'm ok with trope-y, as long as it's an interesting spin on the tropes. Like, Eragon was...not. At least as I remember. This seems more inventive.

The big thing with the show that bugged my wife and I was that, while it struck us as probably a pretty spiritually-faithful (if likely abbreviated) version of the books, it was missing the essential glossary that I just knew had to be in the books which contextualized all these wacky terms folks use. And I was right! Upon purchase of the book, literally the first thing I did as I sat down to read was to flip to the glossary to figure out WTF all these different phrases and terms mean (and whether the show pronounced things accurately -- which it does, since Jordan bothered to put pronunciation guides in the glossary too. Thanks, Bob!). I can remember after maybe the 3rd episode saying to my wife "I guarantee that at least the first book has a glossary the way Game of Thrones had its appendices, because that's the only way half this s*** would make a lick of sense."
 

teragon

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
As a book reader, of the whole series, I must say it left a somewhat sour taste in my mouth. I don't really understand why
Rand
was robbed of his first big moment as the dragon, given instead to Nyneave, Egwene and random women from Far Dara. The climax is the eye was also a bit anticlimactic IMO.

It's strange, I know they were lots of issues between covid and Mat's actor leaving the show abruptly and all, but all along I feel the boys (Rand, Mat and Perrin) have been short changed a lot, while the ladies have had their fair share of development. I understand the need for equality but frankly the ladies have already their fair share of heroics, and crucial development in the books, there was no need to bring the boys down to make them shine!

They also changed perspectives to purposely cast a bad shadow on male characters it seems, like Lews Therin, the OG dragon, seemingly deciding out of pride to go seal the bore and tackle the Dark One problem, against the advice of the "wise" Aes Sedai lady, while in the books to wasn't pride, it was desperation and the only option left, it was pretty much the apocalypse, and the female Aes Sedai straight up refused to help. It really casts a very different light again. I must say I don't like it, and I'm weary of what is to follow.

The animated bonus content is awesome though, I'll give them that!
 

Paul Andrew

Sr Member
So, I finished the series a few weeks ago, and wound up buying the first book, which I've started reading.

If the Episode 7 "reveal" is that
Rand is the Dragon
, then, no, that wasn't much of a reveal. I had theorized that maybe this was something that was gonna play with the underlying concept and, say,
split the role of the Dragon across multiple characters who all kinda form Captain Plan---er----the Dragon
, but I wasn't super surprised that it went the way it did. I was more surprised by
Moiraine being gay and her girlfriend being the head of the Aes Sedai, who was in on everything with her. If this is in the book, that's surprisingly progressive for 1990.

I've noticed a lot of heavy Tolkien bits. A long intro (in the book) about mundane life in the village before a big party, black riders, an escape to a ferry, blah blah. I don't mind it, it's just wearing your influences on your sleeves. I doubt if I wrote a work of scifi/space fantasy I'd be able to do it in a way that didn't evoke Star Wars, at least at first blush even if I added in a bunch of layers and complexity later. Also spotted some Dune in there with the "Fremen-but-please-don't-sue-the-Jordan-estate" desert wasteland people.

Anyway, I thought the first season was decent and entertaining, and so far I'm liking the book although they're just getting to the part where Tam and Rand are getting to the village after the Trolloc attack, which happens a little differently on the show.

The show is VERY much condensed, but I don't think that's a bad thing. The stuff that's in the book...I get why it's there, but (so far) some of it seems a bit self-indulgent. I'm hopeful that it pays off more later and what you're really getting is a LOT of layering and foreshadowing that, without the benefit of hindsight, just seems like a meandering narrative in need of an editor and the "kill your darlings" treatment. If, by the time I get to, like, book 5 all the stuff about the village council and who these people are and all the back and forth stuff ends up mattering, then fine. Otherwise, I think it makes sense to have cut it for the show because it really is extraneous and just kind of "Life in the village is village-y." Right. Got it. Village-y. Stands to reason. OH, LIGHT! YOUR BUCOLIC EXISTENCE HAS BEEN SHATTERED BY THE FORCES OF DARKNESS!!! WHO COULD HAVE FORESEEN THIS?!?!? ;)

It's trope-y. Which I expected. The show was trope-y. The concept itself is trope-y. I'm ok with trope-y, as long as it's an interesting spin on the tropes. Like, Eragon was...not. At least as I remember. This seems more inventive.

The big thing with the show that bugged my wife and I was that, while it struck us as probably a pretty spiritually-faithful (if likely abbreviated) version of the books, it was missing the essential glossary that I just knew had to be in the books which contextualized all these wacky terms folks use. And I was right! Upon purchase of the book, literally the first thing I did as I sat down to read was to flip to the glossary to figure out WTF all these different phrases and terms mean (and whether the show pronounced things accurately -- which it does, since Jordan bothered to put pronunciation guides in the glossary too. Thanks, Bob!). I can remember after maybe the 3rd episode saying to my wife "I guarantee that at least the first book has a glossary the way Game of Thrones had its appendices, because that's the only way half this s*** would make a lick of sense."

So, I asked about your first spoiler tag because as a book reader, I felt like the show was spinning you in any direction except that one, so I wasn't sure if that was going feel right or feel out of left field for folks who hadn't read the books.

As to your second spoiler tag, even as irate as some book fans are, I don't think any of us would have had the stomach for that big of a departure.

And the third spoiler, it's canon but doesn't happen in the text of the main series but rather in the prequel novel which came out much later.

The show is very condensed, and frankly a lot of the plot is made up whole-cloth, but it hits the vibe pretty well and keeps most of the narrative arc of the first book, even if the actual events portrayed happen very differently. I can't really say much more, but you'll see what I mean as you progress through the book.

Jordan had a very verbose style with a focus on world building and minor details that is either right up your alley, or not. The book series has a few different era's, if you will. Books 1-3 are very quest focused, 4-6 turn up the political intrigue a bunch, 7-10 start to meander and explore side characters without progressing the series plot a ton, and 11-14 is where things turn back around and start driving home. It's a whole lot. I can't blame folks that can't devote the time and energy to it if they're not in love with it.

If the show gets the eight seasons the showrunner wants to do the whole thing then I hope that they can bump it to 10 or 12 episodes a season and really explore things, but as it is the show doesn't even really explain the basics of the magic system. They don't really alter it, and the way they visualize it is pretty good imo, but by the time they mention the name of the side of the one power men use it's the last episode and in the "Old tongue" to boot, so you either recognized it as a fan or it was just gibberish.

As a kid with a bunch of time on my hands to dive into a thing and learn all about it, those glossaries were like crack for my brain. I'm surprised the amazon prime page for the series didn't include a condensed version of it tbh, some of that info makes things a lot clearer.
 

Paul Andrew

Sr Member
They also changed perspectives to purposely cast a bad shadow on male characters it seems, like Lews Therin, the OG dragon, seemingly deciding out of pride to go seal the bore and tackle the Dark One problem, against the advice of the "wise" Aes Sedai lady, while in the books to wasn't pride, it was desperation and the only option left, it was pretty much the apocalypse, and the female Aes Sedai straight up refused to help. It really casts a very different light again. I must say I don't like it, and I'm weary of what is to follow.

The animated bonus content is awesome though, I'll give them that!

The animated stuff has been very cool!

I think you do a disservice to the female Aes Sedai who didn't go along with Lews Therin's plan though. They had a serious concern that his plan would backfire in a way that would have been as ruinous the female channellers as it ended up being to the male ones, but with Jordan gone there's no way to get a confirmation on that one way or the other.

Regardless, I hope you like future seasons more!
 

Solo4114

Master Member
As a book reader, of the whole series, I must say it left a somewhat sour taste in my mouth. I don't really understand why
Rand
was robbed of his first big moment as the dragon, given instead to Nyneave, Egwene and random women from Far Dara. The climax is the eye was also a bit anticlimactic IMO.

It's strange, I know they were lots of issues between covid and Mat's actor leaving the show abruptly and all, but all along I feel the boys (Rand, Mat and Perrin) have been short changed a lot, while the ladies have had their fair share of development. I understand the need for equality but frankly the ladies have already their fair share of heroics, and crucial development in the books, there was no need to bring the boys down to make them shine!

They also changed perspectives to purposely cast a bad shadow on male characters it seems, like Lews Therin, the OG dragon, seemingly deciding out of pride to go seal the bore and tackle the Dark One problem, against the advice of the "wise" Aes Sedai lady, while in the books to wasn't pride, it was desperation and the only option left, it was pretty much the apocalypse, and the female Aes Sedai straight up refused to help. It really casts a very different light again. I must say I don't like it, and I'm weary of what is to follow.

The animated bonus content is awesome though, I'll give them that!
I didn't realize that Mat's actor left the show. That'll be interesting to see if they bother to explain it.

As for the focus on the women, eh, I don't mind that. For me, it made it a genuine question as to who the Dragon Reborn could/would be, which I gather (thus far, anyway) is just not a thing in the book. The character with the mysterious past and parentage is a pretty obvious choice. I'm up to chapter 7, and that reveal of "Who am I?!" has already hit, making it pretty obvious that whenver they introduce the "One of you may be the Dragon Reborn!" who it'll be.
So, I asked about your first spoiler tag because as a book reader, I felt like the show was spinning you in any direction except that one, so I wasn't sure if that was going feel right or feel out of left field for folks who hadn't read the books.

As to your second spoiler tag, even as irate as some book fans are, I don't think any of us would have had the stomach for that big of a departure.

And the third spoiler, it's canon but doesn't happen in the text of the main series but rather in the prequel novel which came out much later.

The show is very condensed, and frankly a lot of the plot is made up whole-cloth, but it hits the vibe pretty well and keeps most of the narrative arc of the first book, even if the actual events portrayed happen very differently. I can't really say much more, but you'll see what I mean as you progress through the book.

Jordan had a very verbose style with a focus on world building and minor details that is either right up your alley, or not. The book series has a few different era's, if you will. Books 1-3 are very quest focused, 4-6 turn up the political intrigue a bunch, 7-10 start to meander and explore side characters without progressing the series plot a ton, and 11-14 is where things turn back around and start driving home. It's a whole lot. I can't blame folks that can't devote the time and energy to it if they're not in love with it.

If the show gets the eight seasons the showrunner wants to do the whole thing then I hope that they can bump it to 10 or 12 episodes a season and really explore things, but as it is the show doesn't even really explain the basics of the magic system. They don't really alter it, and the way they visualize it is pretty good imo, but by the time they mention the name of the side of the one power men use it's the last episode and in the "Old tongue" to boot, so you either recognized it as a fan or it was just gibberish.

As a kid with a bunch of time on my hands to dive into a thing and learn all about it, those glossaries were like crack for my brain. I'm surprised the amazon prime page for the series didn't include a condensed version of it tbh, some of that info makes things a lot clearer.
If it all pays off in the end, I don't mind a slow-cooked meal, but there's braising and then there's over-seasoning, ya know? But the thing is, I won't really know if things like "Here's all the village life stuff" actually pays off until farther along. Right now it just seems to be several chapters of humdrum life, which really aren't necessary if all you're gonna do is blow it up in the span of a single chapter anyway. Like, I don't need to know that the mayor also runs the inn and the village council includes this one pissy guy who's always kind of a jerk, and then the peddler shows up and riles everyone up and the council has to sit with him privately to pick his brain and... I suppose it does a good job of characterizing just how small and insular their world is, but it doesn't actually get into the characters' minds and experiences all that much (well, except for Rand so far). In that respect -- at least as of Ch. 7 -- the show handled better how these characters had lives and things they cared about and such, as well as how tiny their worlds were.
The animated stuff has been very cool!

I think you do a disservice to the female Aes Sedai who didn't go along with Lews Therin's plan though. They had a serious concern that his plan would backfire in a way that would have been as ruinous the female channellers as it ended up being to the male ones, but with Jordan gone there's no way to get a confirmation on that one way or the other.

Regardless, I hope you like future seasons more!
Personally, I'm still digging the show. I found the Lews Therin thing to be interesting, again, especially as compared to the book where you see the impact of his madness after the fact (waiting to see how/if the show handles that).
 

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