What's up with modern ship designs?

I think the thing that made a lot of the original Star Wars ships work was that at one point in time, someone looked at a real world design and said, 'Hey, that would look great as a space ship!' Take the AT-AT's, a person was looking at the huge cranes loading cargo ships in SF bay. IIRC Slave One was originally conceived from a lamp Post.

That last one I wish would go away. Nilo Rodis designed Slave I roughly mentally inspired by a radar mount (i.e., round base) with some wings stuck on. One of his perspective drawings made the base look more elliptical, and that's the one George circled, so that's the direction Nilo had to take it from there. It wasn't until one of the other people at ILM was interviewed, and asked about that ships design inspiration, that the interviewee said "I think he noticed one of the street lights around here or something" -- when they actually didn't much look like that at all, and that's gotten repeated and repeated down through the years, despite Nilo setting the record straight, despite the early round-base Slave I sketches, etc.

--Jonah
 
The Eta Jedi starfighters as the fighters actually flown by the clone army, as predecessors to the TIE Fighter (with the Inquisitor's TIE from Rebels as an in-between step). Keep the Y-Wing and ARC-170 (without the pointless "S-foils")...

--Jonah

The ARC-170 s-foils do actually make sense if you buy the explanation. They have guns that are several times as powerful as all four of the X-Wing's together so it makes sense to have a cooling system, which is what is exposed when the s-foils open.

I remember feeling very disappointed in the Phantom menace designs. They didn't fit in the same galaxy as star wars.

I don't think the TPM ships were the greatest ever designed, but I disagree when people say they don't fit in the SW universe. They don't fit in the OT SW Universe and they're not supposed to. You could liken it to U.S. cars from the 60s and before to what we have now. The cars now look all the same (other than sports cars) and are made to perform well on the road. No one in 50 years is going to collect or remember a 2016 Chevy Impala, but they do remember a 57 Chevy. Those cars might not have been as fast, but they were flashier and looked great. That's the difference between a Naboo Fighter and a X-Wing fighter. The X-Wing is a fighter made to fight a war and looks were secondary, whereas the Naboo fighter is mostly for looks, but can function well if it has to.
 
Most of the prequel ships are pretty cool,....it's just the 3 ships that have R2 units that annoy me,...the Naboo StarFighter,...the Jedi Sarfighter (Star Destroyer shaped one) from EP2,...& the Jedi StarFighter from EP3.

The Naboo one,...a droid can't fit in there,....never-mind get his head through the collar with his holo-projectors sticking out

The EP2 Jedi Fighter,....they decided to put a head of a droid on there??

The EP3 Jedi Fighter.....they went back to putting an entire droid back in,....but theres not enough depth for the droid to slot in,....the bottom slope of the ship cuts across the droids middle & his feet,...so really you should see the droids body & his feet hanging from underneath,...but they disappear

Also theres too many different craft,..especially in EP 3

J
 
The EP3 Jedi Fighter.....they went back to putting an entire droid back in,....but theres not enough depth for the droid to slot in,....the bottom slope of the ship cuts across the droids middle & his feet,...so really you should see the droids body & his feet hanging from underneath,...but they disappear


The ESB snowspeeder doesn't have enough room for the pilot inside. Not thick/tall enough.


The Falcon is famously impossible. Even a casual viewer can tell there is no way the interior fits inside the exterior. Things still don't line up even if the sizes are reconciled. Where did Lando emerge from when he rescued Luke from the underside of Bespin? How do you get to the access tunnel for the center guns? How does the gangplank ramp bring people up to the same standing level as the cockpit?

It's easier to list the problems with that ship's layout than to list what does work.



But the Falcon & snowspeeder are from the OT. All is forgiven.
 
The Falcon is famously impossible. Even a casual viewer can tell there is no way the interior fits inside the exterior. Things still don't line up even if the sizes are reconciled. Where did Lando emerge from when he rescued Luke from the underside of Bespin? How do you get to the access tunnel for the center guns? How does the gangplank ramp bring people up to the same standing level as the cockpit?

It's easier to list the problems with that ship's layout than to list what does work.

My favorite fixed Falcon:

mm-mf_zps579318e7.jpg


One thing I really wish they'd done in TFA, rather than work to utterly faithfully recreate the original interior set... I like to think I'd represent the majority of hardcore fan who'd even notice the differences, and would have been thrilled, and not bitching about it.

--Jonah
 
The ESB snowspeeder doesn't have enough room for the pilot inside. Not thick/tall enough.


The Falcon is famously impossible. Even a casual viewer can tell there is no way the interior fits inside the exterior. Things still don't line up even if the sizes are reconciled. Where did Lando emerge from when he rescued Luke from the underside of Bespin? How do you get to the access tunnel for the center guns? How does the gangplank ramp bring people up to the same standing level as the cockpit?

It's easier to list the problems with that ship's layout than to list what does work.



But the Falcon & snowspeeder are from the OT. All is forgiven.

Never forgiven,....but just not so obvious,.....the snowspeeders only become apparent when looking at the studio models separately from the film,...not really noticeable when you watch the film

Lando emerges from here:

MF%20plan%20-%2010%20bucket%20lift%20tube_zpsb6uwxgxy.pngoriginal.png


8c3d3d420240dfadea534e054d9e95cf.jpg


Again when watching the film you see Lando rising on a lift platform & opening an airlock hatch,....then cutting to an exterior shot of what looks like the docking corridor area of the ship.....only afterwards when you examine reference photos of the Falcon,....you question whether any of those circular vents/hatches are big enough for a guy to fit through

The ramp,...I have never had a problem with

The ladder to the turrets don't make sense unless the ladder rotates & presents itself for the gunners to access,....then when they are position the turret returns to it's central point,....


TFA actually fixed some of the errors of the turret,....but added some more conundrums,..like the turrets rotating independently of each other etc

All these OT errors,...you need to think about,...the PT errors were there to be seen in the films

J
 
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I buy into (enough to not think about it...) the cutaway book explanation that in the Naboo Fighter the R2 dome telescopes up and out. The Jedi Fighters were just sloppy design. I liked the fighters, but having a droid head stuck to your fighter doesn't make sense. The whole purpose of the astromech in the X-Wing/Y-Wing is so it can help adjust things and make repairs. You know, things that you need arms for... I get that you have to have a suspension of disbelief, but the Jedi fighters were too blatant.
 
The Falcon is famously impossible. Even a casual viewer can tell there is no way the interior fits inside the exterior. Things still don't line up even if the sizes are reconciled. Where did Lando emerge from when he rescued Luke from the underside of Bespin? How do you get to the access tunnel for the center guns? How does the gangplank ramp bring people up to the same standing level as the cockpit?

The Flacon is a cool ship and can be forgiven (in my eyes) as '70s sci fi didn't have either the following or reverence in which they are today and that is somewhat reflected in spaceship designs. The biggest issue I had was with the positioning of the shooters of the top and bottom guns. Han and Luke start climbing vertically up and down a central ladder to the turrets, but somehow end up emerging from horizontal tubes. In my mind, I imagined that the turrets had their own artificial gravity generators, which were independent of the main ships AG and therefore orientated the shooters independent of the main ship.
 
Truthfully, the full scale setpiece were only 2/3 or the "real" size

Yeah, I know.

But just an opinion - I don't see why the MF's interior always gets priority for the "real" size. There are just as many arguments in favor of shrinking the soundstage interiors as enlarging the exterior shells. I would have elected to split the difference between the old interiors & exteriors for a "real" size.
 
The Falcon turrets were explained in that they have a shifting gravity inside. When your in the turrets, your effectively sitting level looking out at window. Now what that does to your stomach while you climb to them is a different story. :sick
 
The Falcon turrets were explained in that they have a shifting gravity inside. When your in the turrets, your effectively sitting level looking out at window. Now what that does to your stomach while you climb to them is a different story. :sick

A bit like getting out of bed? Not a big deal.
 
How much sense does the Millennium Falcon's shape make? Or the ESB medical frigate? Or the Y-wings? Slave-1 Does the rebel blockade runner look like it could have done the Falcon's job?

Many of the classic OT ships don't make the slightest sense for their jobs. Some aren't very elegant. Some aren't even symmetrical.

Having OT cred means we will bestow them with rationalized excuses. But it's BS. We tear down the PT ships over far less.

I think the PT ships get "torn down" not because of issues with functionality, but rather with issues of consistency of aesthetics in keeping with the information we know about the Star Wars universe. So, for example, the Delta-7 Aethersprite Jedi Starfighter looks a lot like an A-wing, while the Eta-2 Actis Jedi Starfighter kinda resembles a hybrid of A-wing and TIE Fighter. So, how'd we end up with A-wings on one side and TIE fighters on the other? Likewise, the ARC-170 visually has some vague references to an X-wing, but doesn't naturally transition to one when you look at it. And the V-wing looks like nothing we've seen or see afterwards.

Then there are the other cultures' ships like the Vulture droids and the Naboo n-1 Starfighter. While you can argue that these are different cultures with different design aesthetics, visually they're jarring while watching the film. They don't look like what we've seen before, and it ends up looking like some other movie franchise.

Compare those with, say, the Z-95 (which very easily transitions to the X-wing visually), or Kylo Ren's evil bat-shuttle thing. Visually, those look like Star Wars ships. They "fit." They don't look identical to what came before, but you can see the influence of design on them. Granted, not everything in the Prequels is visually jarring, but a LOT about the design seems "cleaner" and "smoother" and such, whereas the later tech looks "chunkier" and "more beat up."

I'd say that one of the very few things that really makes sense visually is the design of the Clone Wars Y-wings with all the plating, as compared to the stripped-down version we see in the OT. THAT makes perfect sense visually, including explaining the "sleeker" vs. "more beat up" visual qualities.

I remember feeling very disappointed in the Phantom menace designs. They didn't fit in the same galaxy as star wars.

But then I had this realization that the reason is that those cultures we saw in the Phantom menace aren't around any more by time to the OT. they exist. But they aren't manufacturing anything.

Those movies were for us to bear witness to a society that slowly morphs into north Korea. a culture where only the militarized government is manufacturing anything.

The prequel designers knew what they were doing. As the prequels went on, we saw glimpses of the militarized government that led the OT.

(We also have to note that both cloud city and the calimari has strikingly different designs. Both would had worked very well in the prequels)

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The cultures do exist, we just don't really see them in the OT. I mean, yeah, it makes sense that different cultures would have different design aesthetics, but when you're making a film franchise and telling stories within a chronology, I think it makes more sense to provide visual touchstones for viewers familiar with the previous entries in the story. I'd say that AOTC and ROTS do a better job of this, but they're still not quite "right."

By contrast -- probably because they basically just stole Ralph McQuarrie's sketchbook for their designs -- the Rebels cartoon really fits with the look of the OT, while also looking a little "sleeker" (like Ralph's original designs) in keeping with the PT's aesthetic.

The ARC-170 s-foils do actually make sense if you buy the explanation. They have guns that are several times as powerful as all four of the X-Wing's together so it makes sense to have a cooling system, which is what is exposed when the s-foils open.



I don't think the TPM ships were the greatest ever designed, but I disagree when people say they don't fit in the SW universe. They don't fit in the OT SW Universe and they're not supposed to. You could liken it to U.S. cars from the 60s and before to what we have now. The cars now look all the same (other than sports cars) and are made to perform well on the road. No one in 50 years is going to collect or remember a 2016 Chevy Impala, but they do remember a 57 Chevy. Those cars might not have been as fast, but they were flashier and looked great. That's the difference between a Naboo Fighter and a X-Wing fighter. The X-Wing is a fighter made to fight a war and looks were secondary, whereas the Naboo fighter is mostly for looks, but can function well if it has to.

I mean, we can come up with all kinds of explanations for why, no, no, it really DOES make sense, but I don't think that's really the point. (Although, admittedly, the Falcon pretty much has to be a TARDIS to have the interior and exterior "fit".) I think the real point is whether it visually works for the story you're telling. AT least with a story like Star Wars where the emphasis is on the "fiction" rather than the "science." Trek, I think, used to be much more concerned with its tech being "plausible." Star Wars was more about evoking an emotional response.

A bit like getting out of bed? Not a big deal.

Not quite. Getting out of bed has gravity all oriented the same way. YOU change your reference, but gravity does not. In the gun turrets, GRAVITY would have to change its orientation, and you'd feel it tug at your body as you got into the seat. It'd feel weird, no question.

But, again, so what? Lucas was trying to evoke the notion of a B-17 fighting off attacking Messerschmidts. Then the visual design team went with the "hamburger plus olive" design instead of the "Corellian Gunship" design, where the gun turrets might've made more sense.
 
Not quite. Getting out of bed has gravity all oriented the same way. YOU change your reference, but gravity does not. In the gun turrets, GRAVITY would have to change its orientation, and you'd feel it tug at your body as you got into the seat. It'd feel weird, no question.

But, again, so what? Lucas was trying to evoke the notion of a B-17 fighting off attacking Messerschmidts. Then the visual design team went with the "hamburger plus olive" design instead of the "Corellian Gunship" design, where the gun turrets might've made more sense.

Yeah, but it is not oriented the same way as when your lying in bed. Or like when you are swimming below the surface, and you flip upside down, it's not really that dramatic.
 
Someone mentioned a while back that things in design got a little bit more insect-influenced. There's a good point there. And we definitely have bayformers to thank for that. Those designs were so convoluted that you couldn't even tell what was going on. I'm pretty sure that if you relaxed your eyes while looking at Megatron you would see a sailboat

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The Falcon really isn't that far off, the exterior just needed to be about 30 percent bigger for that interior to fit. There are people in the process of doing just that, building a full scale with interior and exterior. In the contexts of the films, what they did is fine.
 
Someone mentioned a while back that things in design got a little bit more insect-influenced. There's a good point there. And we definitely have bayformers to thank for that. Those designs were so convoluted that you couldn't even tell what was going on. I'm pretty sure that if you relaxed your eyes while looking at Megatron you would see a sailboat

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You mean a schooner.
 
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