Vade's cape

[Dark Shadow]

<div class='quotetop'>(Darth Kahnt @ May 31 2006, 12:03 PM) [snapback]1253585[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>(Jack Bauer @ May 31 2006, 12:54 AM) [snapback]1253501[/snapback]

But I can see Gino's point about mass producers. I believe if I had the knowledge I'd share it publicly with those that are serious about the trade and creating of a perfect Vader. I wouldn't just give the info to joe schmoe internet. If a true RPF'er or costumer wanted to know the dementions of a chest box or belt buckle, and I had those numbers, I'd share. I'd be a little selective. making sure that the person at least has built a sort of reputation first. If I haven't heard of them, I'd probably pass.

So like i said, I see his point. I just get sick and damn tired of asking those who claim to have exact numbers, say "no" to me when they have seen me around the net and RPF and know I take the trade serious. Just because someone makes an overpriced Vader Buckle, and they fear that if I made on for myself, I'd try to out sell them for something that isn't even theirs in the 1st place. I've NEVER had problems with Gino though. From what I know, he's pretty helpfull to those that take it serious and "honor the code".
[/b]

Very well said. That has been my impression of Gino as well.
[/b][/quote]
Id post the Pm Gino sent me but I deleted it. I have a very good reputation here and have been building my personal vader for years. After I asked him for help with dimensions of the cape, he flat out refused. It was kind of a dry "sorry" note followed by "I hope you understand" Well, my answer is NO I DONT understand. This is a public movie and is for everyone and I feel that info isnt "sensative" as Gino would put it. If I had original prop info, Id be glad to help others out who are building.
Anyway. I dont want to hijack this into a bash session. I look foreward to the information that will be available.

 

[Darth Kahnt]

Scott,

It's unfortunate that was your experience. The only thing you can do is continue to operate as normal in the face of adversity.

My own interactions with Gino have been limited but positive but that's not to say it will be the same for everyone. Unfortunately sometimes we don't all see eye to eye on everything.

 

[SHalamar]

I would want as accurate a Vader as possible. Now, My Vader looks, well, amazing. But I know that its not all accurate. (Parts are, parts are not). I the information is out there and available, but not available to ME.

Its off putting. Now.. I DO understand the reasons. I totally do, but it still seems like a case of 'You're not one of the popular kids, go away'.

 

[GeneralMayhem]

I have no personal experience with Gino, or his work. I can only tell you about the experiences I've had with others since I joined.

I've found that happened a LOT when I first became a member. Not so much now that I've made a few friends here, but there are still long time members who will never accept the newer people, or at least respect them enough to share "inside" information. Some people just don't work and play well with others. They're just here to make a buck and gather all the informatiuon they can, so they can profit from it, giving little or nothing in return, and hoarding what they find, so no one else can cut into their market.

I've seen that kind of attitude on many forums. Some people give, some people take, and thankfully, most of us do both.

 

[SHalamar]

<div class='quotetop'>(GeneralMayhem @ Jun 6 2006, 07:23 PM) [snapback]1257528[/snapback]</div>

I have no personal experience with Gino, or his work. I can only tell you about the experiences I've had with others since I joined.

I've found that happened a LOT when I first became a member. Not so much now that I've made a few friends here, but there are still long time members who will never accept the newer people, or at least respect them enough to share "inside" information. Some people just don't work and play well with others. They're just here to make a buck and gather all the informatiuon they can, so they can profit from it, giving little or nothing in return, and hoarding what they find, so no one else can cut into their market.

I've seen that kind of attitude on many forums. Some people give, some people take, and thankfully, most of us do both.


[/b]

Exactly. And thats the problem. Once bitten, twice shy. I want the information for ME. My wife and I made the outfit with the best information available we could find. And she's turned down people who have since asked for her to make more. It was a LOT of work, and we both have full time jobs. Hers was a labour of love for me. (and If I asked again, because 'more accurate info was found, she'd KILL me.) :lol

 

[frosty]

It is a shame, i have seen that a lot on here, whats the point, snobbery is a big part of it, looking down from on high at the new guy asking for info, it seems the newer people are more willing to share info, it seems if your post count is high and you've been here a looong time your'e ok, the rest of us......
As long as the end result looks the part, thats all that matters really.

 

[The Manlet]

All well made points. I have delt with a few Di*ks on this site... but as in life you will alway find people you butt heads with or, butt heads with you for no reason. Its a hobby for kicks an giggles to have a little piece of your dream a part of your childhood It's a prop a cape. Why such info needs to be with held is beyound me, its not as if anyone here owns the rights and i also doubt 80% would use the info for anything more then for are own costumes? We joined this site for the love of a hobby to learn and share information. But it seems those that have info or have been here longer then others seem to have this delusion of grandor. or belife we are out to miss use this infor they don't own in the frist place. My goal is to make my vaders the best i can, I have learned alot here.. and a geart deal more else where and i have no problems sharing what i know and helping where i can. this gos for props as well as the way i live my life
the biggest problem in the world is no one wants to help anyone... with out gaining somthing in return or the fear of losing somthing.

I would hope you members that have been here longer then the rest of us new guys would look apon us with new eyes some of us are now to the prop world (maybe wet behind the ears and just hit are 20's ) and could be the next generation of prop makers carring on what we learned from those here befor us.
With all most of you know... do you plan to take your secrects to the grave with you? and let this great past time that has changed so many lives end with your lack of faith in others?

Somthing i would hope you all would think about when you get a massage from some of us new guys.
A great man once said to me "What i teach you promise me you will share with others and help people when you can as i have done for you"

that man was my guitar teacher who changed the way i veiwed the world when no one else care for me
and i live by his belifes and views to this day an never looked back even when others have wornged me. I know i have done the right thing by them and others and that is my victory.

 

[GeneralMayhem]

Hopefully, when registration opens again (assuming it ever does), the next batch of newbies will be welcomed by the community and treated like prodigal sons, instead of hazed like freshmen.

 

[GINO]

I can't speak for everyone, but for me, it's not a matter of newbie vs. old timer. I could care less about that aspect as everyone started out as a newbie and can still bring as much or more to the table than someone who's been around forever.

I care about whether or not the person I'm spilling my guts to is a trusted friend or not. I care very much about what happens to the knowledge that I've worked so hard to obtain and only feel comfortable sharing with those whom I've built trusting relationships with.

 

[frosty]

There in lies the rub, you have to be a friend to get the info, its not the whereabouts of the holy grail..
I think you do great work Gino, and you have a fine collection of props, but i just don't understand where you are coming from.

 

[GINO]

I've been doing this for a long time. Almost 14 years. More times than I can count, I've ended up regretting sharing coveted info with the masses.
I've nearly been banned multiple times for sharing my info about controversial topics that were derived from my collection of "evidence/secret information". It's not appreciated nor wanted. In general, people don't want to hear the ugly truth about these things so they either refuse to believe them, or trash the messenger.
In the end, no one remembers the one who "cracked the case" or the hard work they put into discovering something. Others just end up taking credit for it anyways or whoring it out for mass consumption. Anyone remember the trooper helmet wars? Yep, I fought in them. Still not sure if educating everyone about them was worth the beating I took.

Yep, only people that I trust with like-minded intentions, goals, and philosophys (in regards to prop collecting). Even if you don't understand that, you should respect my feelings about it. Most serious collectors/builders come around to this line of thinking if they stay in the hobby long enough.

 

[frosty]

I also have been building for a long time, more masks and display heads than anything else, people contact me all the time asking for information, how do you do that etc etc, i try to help out each person who asks, back when i started there was no help,no internet, and i basially had to teach myself, not a bad thing, but it was hard, people i contacted gave me nothing, could not be bothered to give advice to some kid.
I guess thats why i disagree with the no sharing unless i know you idea, i guess its one of those agree to disagree topics

 

[GINO]

For me, I always give out truthful advice or try to point people in the right direction.

I was once "that kid" and remember what it was like. There is a TON of info available to prop collectors/builders today compared to how it was when I started out. I would never dismiss someone because they were new.

It's only when someone asks, "um..can you give me your exact dv cape pattern and tell me what and where to get the fabrics you used" do I become uncomfortable...and offended.

 

[Dark Shadow]

<div class='quotetop'>(GINO @ Jun 7 2006, 06:12 PM) [snapback]1257885[/snapback]</div>

I can't speak for everyone, but for me, it's not a matter of newbie vs. old timer. I could care less about that aspect as everyone started out as a newbie and can still bring as much or more to the table than someone who's been around forever.

I care about whether or not the person I'm spilling my guts to is a trusted friend or not. I care very much about what happens to the knowledge that I've worked so hard to obtain and only feel comfortable sharing with those whom I've built trusting relationships with.
[/b]

Yea Gino then what does that make me?? Im trusted here by MANY. Im not into this whole thing to make a living. Its a HOBBY and who cares if a person who "cracks the case" gets credit for it. Its not like finding the lost city of Atlantis. What you say seems to always come back to you. the real perpose of giving is not to worry if it gets back to you for credit. Im my opinion Everyone here should have access to as much information as possible. Id love to have the exact dimensions of the vaders cape and the exact origial materials. WHY? Because I want a Vader that looks like the one in the movie. Not that I intend to but why should it matter if I used that information to make capes to sell. Perhaps others may think its a big help. Gino, Ive seen your posts of "look at my SUPER accutate vader and stromtrper stuff". What youre saying and what youre doing, again, makes it look very much like its making a big circle back to you. Are you threatened that you may not some day have what you feel is the most accurate replica of Vader, stormtrooper ect?
I have several close friends who no longer chose to be a member here becuse of this exact thing.
I dont intend to start a war here but its hard to keep these feelings inside when something like this comes up.

 

[GINO]

<div class='quotetop'></div>

Yea Gino then what does that make me?? Im trusted here by MANY.
[/b]

Scott,
Other than a couple of brief phone conversations, I don't really know you at all.


<div class='quotetop'></div>

Im not into this whole thing to make a living. Its a HOBBY and who cares if a person who "cracks the case" gets credit for it.
[/b]

I'm not either. And I care very much about getting credit when it is due. We're disagreeing already.


<div class='quotetop'></div>

Its not like finding the lost city of Atlantis.
[/b]

I take this hobby and my work in it very seriously. If it's not that important, then quit hounding me and bashing me here.


<div class='quotetop'></div>

Not that I intend to but why should it matter if I used that information to make capes to sell.
[/b]

You're joking right? Well, that's why you'll never get any info from me. People that I share info with have no interest in selling or providing stuff to the masses.


<div class='quotetop'></div>

Are you threatened that you may not some day have what you feel is the most accurate replica of Vader, stormtrooper ect?
[/b]

It's my fear and my greatest hope all at the same time that someone will obtain better vader and trooper stuff than me. Unless, their stuff is screen used, it's going to be tough.


<div class='quotetop'></div>

I dont intend to start a war here but its hard to keep these feelings inside when something like this comes up.
[/b]

Me either. But I shouldn't be slammed on just because you don't understand or agree with my philosophy on prop collecting.

 

[RKW]

##

 

[SHalamar]

<div class='quotetop'>(RKW @ Jun 7 2006, 03:47 PM) [snapback]1258059[/snapback]</div>

Sorry don't know the measurements but there is this pic that may help for ANH.
[/b]

:confused

That pic is.. uh... a really bad Vader.

Makes me want to gouge out my eyes.

(I hope its not you, RKW)


edit: No Hyperspace pictures please. Thanks.

 

[Darth Kahnt]

<div class='quotetop'>(SHalamar @ Jun 7 2006, 08:25 PM) [snapback]1258106[/snapback]</div>

:confused

That pic is.. uh... a really bad Vader.

Makes me want to gouge out my eyes.

(I hope its not you, RKW)
[/b]

According to the article that photo is taken from, the suit is screen used. Can't get much better than that.

 

[Darth Kahnt]

<div class='quotetop'>(GINO @ Jun 7 2006, 03:20 PM) [snapback]1257925[/snapback]</div>

I've been doing this for a long time. Almost 14 years. More times than I can count, I've ended up regretting sharing coveted info with the masses.
I've nearly been banned multiple times for sharing my info about controversial topics that were derived from my collection of "evidence/secret information". It's not appreciated nor wanted. In general, people don't want to hear the ugly truth about these things so they either refuse to believe them, or trash the messenger.
In the end, no one remembers the one who "cracked the case" or the hard work they put into discovering something. Others just end up taking credit for it anyways or whoring it out for mass consumption. Anyone remember the trooper helmet wars? Yep, I fought in them. Still not sure if educating everyone about them was worth the beating I took.

Yep, only people that I trust with like-minded intentions, goals, and philosophys (in regards to prop collecting). Even if you don't understand that, you should respect my feelings about it. Most serious collectors/builders come around to this line of thinking if they stay in the hobby long enough.
[/b]

I am a relative rookie to this hobby but I have to step in and agree with Gino here.

The problem with sharing all your information with everyone is that people will use it for selfish reasons and look to profit from the hard work of someone else. I am not saying that eveyone will do that but there are a select few who will and for that reason I can see why the information is not made readily available. Why would you go through years of extensive research based on your love of the hobby and give it to someone who only wants it to mass produce stuff and make money? That is the kind of mentality that makes a degree of secrecy a necessity in this hobby. If you freely share the information it will eventually fall into the hands of someone with questionable motives.

Another reason I think that people are not always eager to share their information is because there are always people who are looking to shoot them down and question their credability. A prime example of this is going on in the prop forum right now under another Vader related thread, where a member who has dedicated an astronomical amount of time and energy into comapring various helmets is constantly the target of doubt and mistrust. If I were him, Id be reluctant to continue sharing my findings and knowledge but much to the benefit of this community he has demonstrated much patience and goodwill. I cant say I would be so patient if I were in his shoes.

I dont claim to have a library of knowledge about patterms and dimensions for accurate Vader costumes but I can assure you that the information I do know is not stuff I would share with any ol' person who asks. I will only share with people I personally feel are dedicated to and love this hobby as much as I do. Call that a "buddy system" or whatever but thats how I feel and why I can agree and respect Gino's views on this subject.

 

[Liquidjedi]

<div class='quotetop'>(RKW @ Jun 7 2006, 10:47 PM) [snapback]1258059[/snapback]</div>

Sorry don't know the measurements but there is this pic that may help for ANH.
[/b]

Awesome pic RKW. I've never seen that pic before with the complete suit being shown. But, I'm pretty sure I've seen it with only the leather suit showing.

Thanks for sharing,
Craig

edit: Hyperspace photo removed... please do not post them. Thanks.