Vader Helmet Opinions Sought

That's cool to have another insight into these things! Will be interesting to here Mr. Clarkes opinion!

But I really don't think JoeR, Mac or Ghost Host are trying to bash your casting. They are just giving their expert opinion. And thanks to Macs comparison to the 20thC I can see all kinds of things in there. Cause I have one right here.

And they may not know EVERYTHING there is possible to know. But those guys ARE Vader experts.

9 times out of 10 if it is a SW prop and it can't be found in the RPF archives... well... it simply does not exist. :p
 
Just had a long conversation with Mr Clarke and having seen the pictures, he can confirm that he is 99% sure this helmet is from one of his ROTJ production moulds. This is pending a final confirmation after he physically examines the helmet next week. There are several distinct 'tells' that are unique to production moulds that are give rise to a fingerprint like signature, however two people in this thread did spot one tell immediately. I won't divulge what these are at his request but suffice to say, much of the percieved 'knowledge' surrounding Vader, Yoda, Speeders and the other myriad of Lucasfilm props that have been created from his department is erroneous. This is not a slight on some people here, but an observation from the man who physically fabricated these things or oversaw the fabrication, often did on the spot resculpts and had to do this job within the context of actor contract renegotiations, sudden weight changes, petty politics and the toils of 12 week shoots.

Thank you to all that have contributed to this thread in whatever form.
 
I call BS from the git-go. I was about to say this is an attempt to gain knowledge to make a better replica, not to authenticate something. Now I think it is gonna show up at some BS auction house claiming to be something it isn't. I hope I am wrong.
 
I call BS from the git-go. I was about to say this is an attempt to gain knowledge to make a better replica, not to authenticate something. Now I think it is gonna show up at some BS auction house claiming to be something it isn't. I hope I am wrong.

You're entitled to your opinion but go easy on the accusations. You're out of line. :angry
 
If this is correct, amazing news.

All I was saying above is that I am genuinely concerned as an original prop collector myself (I have owned 2 original ROTJ stormtrooper helmets myself and researched them thoroughly) that you are unwilling to accept any outcome other than this being original. And insulting anyone that questions this, and slamming the whole board considering the diverse membership is just plain silly.

This happens all the time and is why big ticket items are often pulled from auctions such as Profile in History as owners will not accept that despite being told by someone that soemthing is original, that it doesn't match up to anything on screen. You realise that Propstore and Screenused are members on here right? Are they suffering from
much of the percieved 'knowledge' surrounding Vader, Yoda, Speeders and the other myriad of Lucasfilm props that have been created from his department is erroneous

Anyway congratulations if this is what you think it is.

Joe
 
You realise that Propstore and Screenused are members on here right?

Actually, the owner of Propstore, Stephen is very good friends with Kenny and uses Kenny as his authenticator on items such as this.

Not that it will make a jot of difference. This will never show up in auction, ever. So all the conspiracy theorists can take that how they like.
 
Just had a long conversation with Mr Clarke and having seen the pictures, he can confirm that he is 99% sure this helmet is from one of his ROTJ production moulds.
He would be able to give valuable input on many things discussed on these boards. I'm interested in hearing what he thinks of the shape issues and differences between the cast and the screen used reveal and other screen masks.
 
He would be able to give valuable input on many things discussed on these boards. I'm interested in hearing what he thinks of the shape issues and differences between the cast and the screen used reveal and other screen masks.

Yes, this was discussed and I don't want publically talk about it yet in case I get insinuations such as smugness, deceit and other unpleasantries levelled at me. Suffice to say, some posters here nailed it. A bit of observation and deduction will tell you precisely why this mask is the way it is. A clue though: this mask isn't the modded one (it is, but from the point of view of the known reveal mask).

Sorry for being so cryptic, but I am still a bit miffed over being called a liar on this board.
 
Ummm....yeah.

Did you want opinions or not?

Now you take your ball and say noone's allowed to play....

If you have something to show off, go ahead....otherwise, "move along, move along."

Rich
 
Hey I'm quite willing to be proven wrong on my observations. Please do so. I'd love to see proof of another pedigree helmet from the trilogy. There can never be enough. If you are absolutely positive about what you have and who you are getting your information from, go for it man. :)
 
It sure would be neat if you're right.

I could certainly believe it possible that this was a cast of the Reveal in the process of being cleaned up and modded to look sleek and such. Like a halfway there sort of state. I can also see why they'd cast it in progress, kind of like hitting "save" in a software program.

I just hope Mr. Clarke will allow you to share with us what he told you, or better yet, that he'd come and share with us himself!

Regardless, it's a cool helmet. Is the plan to mod it all the way to a Reveal, or just paint it up how it is?

Or you know what might be neat is to get a regular fan casting (like a 20th C or something) and a Reveal and then set them all up in line!

Overkill? Yeah prolly.
 
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Would Kenny know if the C-scratch on the right cheek was dimensional on the ANH helmet? Sorry, you know we were all thinking to ask.
 
not necessarily, unless he worked on ANH. Depends on what he was given to work with for the reveal helmet. If it were already heavily sanitized, he might know very little details about the ANH helmet.

Not only that, but not all the guys who worked on a film that long ago, will remember little things like that as they were not meant to be seen in the first place.
 
It would be cool to see some specific details that were only found on the reveal helmet.............but do keep in mind, that details could theoretically be added to any given helmet.

Here is another example of issues with some folks who worked on films. I met a fella who worked on ESB, he made claims about his involvment with a particular prop in the film. He has photos of himself working beside known ESB crew. He has photos of himself with the actual prop during production. Yet he shows off a licensed version of the prop (very inaccurate) as evidence he is who he says he is. He simply does not know the difference. He found something that to him looks like the prop from his memory, and in his mind it is identical to the prop. I have zero doubts he worked on the film, I have lots of doubts that his memory is clear.

It is far far easier to accept claims if the helmet you are talking about looks identical to it's screen counterpart. Then you can show details found on your copy that is actually identical to the screen helmet but not found on fan helmets. That makes your job easy. The thing that makes your job hard in a situation like this is that if your helmet is very different in many respects from what is seen on film, not just added details that are missing, but structural details that should at least match earlier versions of the helmet.............details that were in ANH/ESB, absent from this missing link helmet, but then show up again on the screen helmet. That makes it so very hard to accept from a forensics point of view.

Knowing how things work on a movie set, it's practically impossible that they would add the detail they accidentally removed..........back for continuity purposes. The simple fact is, they don't give a hoot about continuity. They give a hoot about staying on schedule.

On the ROTJ reveal helmet, there is a line where the crown portion of the head was added to the top of the mask. The filler used has separated over the years and there is a paint crack visible on the helmet today. That location of filler doesn't match what is shown on the helmet in question. Shapes of other details on the helmet, around the eyes, the nose, the nose bridge, the mouth............all those things are different in some respects to what we see on screen.

So IF, what you are saying is correct, this helmet was made at the same time as the reveal that we see................they would likely have scrapped this version and started over with a more accurate base helmet.......which resulted in what we see on film. Theoretically your helmet could have been some mockup to show George before proceeding with the full build. Who knows?

Please keep in mind, this is just one guy's opinion. I love to be wrong about things, because it helps me learn new information about that which I love. I hope you are proven correct.

Dave :)
 
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