Vader cheek mark (c-scar)

[demorathis]

I have a request (again), gino can you please (pretty please with sugar on top) tell me whether the "production sample" of the eFX was painted by the factory or was that your paintjob? Just curious what sort of quality we can expect out of China on this pretty lid. I will not be using your answer as some future debate. It is for my own curiosity. I am still deciding which eFX to obtain.

Uh, Qui, if you're addressing me, I am not inquiring about the eFX mould whatsoever in that suggestion, I'm asking for proof that a fixed light source, on the face of the eFX from the right side, and photos of the helmet at different angles capturing the c scar cheek in each shot. That photo shoot should match any screen stills perfectly.................if..................it's only a flat non dimensional paint op.

If it can't be matched then something's fishy with the logic.

I posed the same question and he mentioned that it is the paint master... his work for the factory as reference.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Why are people eve asking about something they didn't buy and can't buy anymore even if they wanted too?

Oh, I guarantee you people will be getting these...but at a premium.

 

[Art Andrews]

Why are people eve asking about something they didn't buy and can't buy anymore even if they wanted too?

That is a very good question the silent majority who are viewing this thread should indeed be asking themselves about those who are just going on and on and on.

 

[vaderdarth]

Ken, I already posted that I have a friend that purchased one of each, he is willing to sell either or for what he paid as he only wants one and needs the money. I don't need a time machine nor extra cash for that sonny.

I am asking about the eFX in my request, nowhere did I mention the TM in that request.

Out of respect Ken, if I didn't address you directly, you can assume I only wanted to interact with gino about this subject because last I checked, he's the only one of us with access to an eFX at this time. If I decide to pay 10K for an eFX, that's my business okey dokey?

 

[vaderdarth]

Demorathis, was that the first set of pics, or the second larger resolution set of pics?

Qui I see what you're saying and I'm not in disagreement about any one point. I was just confused whether it was directed at me or someone else. My view was it hasn't been proved directly using paint ops versus screen used as we already have done the comparisons ourselves and it just didn't look the same, but I'm still assuming that somthing can be thrown together that will show how the painted ops eFX matches so perfectly to the screen stills (at least equal to that of the TM in Darth Karo's overlay comparison). On eFX's own website, if you go to the Legend page, there is a Photo with both the screen still and the eFX and the ops are obviously not identical to the screen in that shot, but it's the only one we have to go by. For all I know that was the rush job on the first warped proto. I'm not judging what's already been done, I'm asking for it to be done again with the lighting in the correct place.

 

[Zombie Killer]

I think it's come down to them knowing they messed up not trying to get one. They assumed the licensed piece would never be this good and honestly i can't blame them given past licensees track record. Now it will cost over $2k to get a Legend. I personally wouldn't even think about selling mine for less than $3k and even then i don't know. It's my last ANH Vader helmet and next year i will make a 1:1 body for it. Hopefully there will be more like me and some runs can get going on Vader costume pieces.

 

[encased]

Honestly, what do you guys think the mark up on the eFX lids is going to be? We all know we'll see some on eBay shortly after. Anyone want to guess? It sure will make not getting one feel that much worse.

 

[encased]

I think it's come down to them knowing they messed up not trying to get one. They assumed the licensed piece would never be this good and honestly i can't blame them given past licensees track record. Now it will cost over $2k to get a Legend. I personally wouldn't even think about selling mine for less than $3k and even then i don't know. It's my last ANH Vader helmet and next year i will make a 1:1 body for it. Hopefully there will be more like me and some runs can get going on Vader costume pieces.

Beat me to it. I sure would like to see more costume pieces start going again as I'll be needing some later.

 

[Peacefrog35]

I was thinking about that too. The legend will be big bucks I'm sure. I bet the Limited will be a pretty good premium too by the time they hit the street. I can't wait for mine!

 

[Zombie Killer]

Honestly, what do you guys think the mark up on the eFX lids is going to be? We all know we'll see some on eBay shortly after. Anyone want to guess? It sure will make not getting one feel that much worse.

I think the mark up will be high. Mayby not $2k at first but within 6months to a year and they all settle down in collections it will be tought to pry them from they're fingers. If you want one try like hell now or forever hold your piece.

 

[StarWars Collector]

Um, he did prove it by showing the inside of the Baker mold. Do you see anything even remotely resembling that huge chunk on the inside of that mold? All of the other dings show up, but...no c-scar. What more proof can the guy give?

Bryan doesn't seem to share your or gino's confident views on this matter. Why else would he be posting something like this:

As for our helmet, we stated that it was cast from the Rick Baker molds. We did not say "from the Rick Baker mold WITH OR WITHOUT the scratch!" Scratch or no scratch, never there, used to be there, cleaned off, whatever, the fact is still that we cast our helmet from Rick Baker's molds he made back in the 70's AS IS!



I am not saying that I know if it was actually dimensional or painted.

He's being rather vague on the subject, wouldn't you say?

Now, why would that be?

 

[demorathis]

Demorathis, was that the first set of pics, or the second larger resolution set of pics?

Qui I see what you're saying and I'm not in disagreement about any one point. I was just confused whether it was directed at me or someone else. My view was it hasn't been proved directly using paint ops versus screen used as we already have done the comparisons ourselves and it just didn't look the same, but I'm still assuming that somthing can be thrown together that will show how the painted ops eFX matches so perfectly to the screen stills (at least equal to that of the TM in Darth Karo's overlay comparison). On eFX's own website, if you go to the Legend page, there is a Photo with both the screen still and the eFX and the ops are obviously not identical to the screen in that shot, but it's the only one we have to go by. For all I know that was the rush job on the first warped proto. I'm not judging what's already been done, I'm asking for it to be done again with the lighting in the correct place.

The latest set - the higher rez pics...

 

[Jkushwara]

Bryan doesn't seem to share your or gino's confident views on this matter. Why else would he be posting something like this:



He's being rather vague on the subject, wouldn't you say?

Now, why would that be?

Because Bryan is a completely up front guy. He's not choosing sides in any discussion/ debate that pits one set of circumstantial evidence against another with no definitive proof either way. I'm a professional, in the collectable industry with a fair amount of experience in sculpting, prop making, manufacture engineering, moldmaking, film production, reference image analysis, ect. ect. ect. - and I wouldn't choose either side in this debate based on the evidence being shown.

 

[demorathis]

My opinion about the c-scratch is that it resembles all the painted weathered details I've seen. It reacts to light the way the painted weathered details not an inch and a half away react.

the Rick Baker molds- are not polished or free from boogers and bubbles -- if Rick Baker were to have cleaned up this mold and healed the facial scar, I guarantee it would be a clean sweep.
I find it hard to think he'd only clean up the one detail the c-scar.

Now if the c-scratch were indeed a dimensional crevice, the UK mold would still have it.


One fact we know is this, the props including Vader's helmet in ANH are weathered. Even vader's belt and chest plate have weathered painted details in the form of drybrushed details. The color of the c-scratch always seems to match the color of the weathered details, but never as bright as dimensional highlights to the object or edges.

I don't see why the c-scratch is NOT among them. If anything, they'd paint on the scratch with the dry bruch to enhance the area, but the other textures in black would've definitely either caught light or silver paint on the rough area would.
However, just the c-scratch and a couple minor details around it.

The right cheek looks just as uneven as the other side in many photos.

That's what I'm thinking - now if I'm wrong and the helmet has a big ol scar thats rough then I'll be pleasantly surprised, but the only way to prove it now is to show a mold taken prior to the RB -- which means the UK, which means someone's gotta show a pic, b/c that's the evidence...so whoever knows the owner of this mold, pls urge just one picture of the mold same place...if there is, then there's a difference between that and the RB...

we've already established that all helmets will have differing details to the original, so it shouldn't hurt anyones reputation or credibility to have a pic of the UK mold shown here -- (if obtained illegally or "pirated" then just keep the name of the owner off the pic...) -- thing is no one knows if it's a paint fold, damage to the surface, or anything...but the color of the "highlight" matches the other painted details based on most of the pics I've seen...so it just looks like random weathering to me...
But I've always thought it was part of the "distressing" "weathering" of the prop-- even before I knew there was a whole community that talked about it...

so anyone with pics of the UK mold - will be a welcome sight. I"m just curious now.

I've ordered both Legend and Limited, I'm happy to have done so...but I wouldn't mind knowing more about these helmets' relatives...

 

[Juansith]

Bryan doesn't seem to share your or gino's confident views on this matter. Why else would he be posting something like this:



He's being rather vague on the subject, wouldn't you say?

Now, why would that be?

Because Bryan being an intelligent person doesnt want to be seen as a person that knows all the answers, because he doesnt.He leaves the experts to try and fill the holes.
He is not saying that the scar should or shouldnt be there, and he never said so, he only mentioned that eFX offered a helmet coming from the RB mold as is NOW obviously, and if the mold shows a scar, good for you, if not, well, you can always add it, and he said that.
He claimed to know nothing, and knowing how this threads go for the people that assume to know anything, i think its a brilliant way of handling himself.

 

[demorathis]

Because Bryan is a completely up front guy. He's not choosing sides in any discussion/ debate that pits one set of circumstantial evidence against another with no definitive proof either way. I'm a professional, in the collectable industry with a fair amount of experience in sculpting, prop making, manufacture engineering, moldmaking, film production, reference image analysis, ect. ect. ect. - and I wouldn't choose either side in this debate based on the evidence being shown.

I hear you...I'm of one opinion, but it's an opinion I've always held, but if there's something to make me think otherwise I'm totally open to it. And I'm not calling my opinion fact...I realize that the facts may be otherwise.

Thing is through all this, I'm very happy about the way eFX and Bryan etc have handled all this debate. I'm very impressed by what I've even come to expect from eFX, because when push comes to shove - bottom line, they've always done right by the collectors, the hard core fans and the fanatics...giving the community what it wants...this is the most highly anticipated prop in the history of prop replicas, and the handling so far is one that is impressive and with the utmost reverence and respect to its history...enough to make me one happy sonovagun

- when I first hear about missing details, honestly I thought - oh well, as long as it is the correct shape and has MOST of the details - I realize there are compromises when it comes to manufacturing, so whether is was a manufacturing detail left out, or it got lost in time, no one knows for a fact, all we have are evidences one values over another...
I'm satisfied that it's a mold -- from ILM -- made by RICK BAKER -- licensed --to eFX -- molds given to BRYAN ONO whom we trust -- and though some of you may have a dislike for Gino, I for one am glad he's one of you Vader Fanatics (honestly I'd have been happy if is was ANY ONE of the Vader experts -as I'm a Vader collector), but to have all of you work on it would be to have too many cooks in the kitchen or too many hands making a film -- never goes well...

This was a feat nonetheless, if it weren't for THIS community, the bar wouldn't have been set so high...and I think eFX will raise it further...

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

This was a feat nonetheless, if it weren't for THIS community, the bar wouldn't have been set so high...and I think eFX will raise it further...

That right there is what this place is all about. We hold everything to a higher standard. This IS the Replica Prop Forum, not the Idealized Prop Forum.

 

[Juansith]

Before i knew anything, i honestly thought the eFX was an awesome helmet, but that there were other helmets on top of it.
After reading this thread plus the closed eFX thread, i realize how great an investment i just made buying my Legend, this posts just made its pedigree go up and to my liking, even further than those other helmets that now they seem to have many skeletons in their closets.

Truth or not, i would be terrified at this point to have a helmet that is focus of a lot of controversy (bad controversy), not even knowing the authenticity of some of its key features and the thought that someone could have modified it.
Also, i found out that even the original owners do not know much of how that mold was made.
Theres nothing so relaxing than knowing that the helmet i own is top of the line, that the ILM people agreed on and helped providing all the research info necessary, and that very talented people were involved so that is built the best way possible... As long as the chinese factory doesnt mess it up.. Well see .

The only thing that has happened so far is raising the Legend status, and this was made only by those members that tried to take it down.

 

[defstartrooper]

The only thing that has happened so far is raising the Legend status, and this was made only by those members that tried to take it down.

Nobody has tried anything of the sort, if anything it's the other way round with accusations of deception against owners of other helmets.
Everyone has stated the eFX is a great helmet and nobody has cast aspersions on it unlike those like yourself who cast aspersions against a helmet you've never seen and people you don't even know.

 

[Juansith]

Nobody has tried anything of the sort, if anything it's the other way round with accusations of deception against owners of other helmets.
Everyone has stated the eFX is a great helmet and nobody has cast aspersions on it unlike those like yourself who cast aspersions against a helmet you've never seen and people you don't even know.

First, im not talking about people, i was talking about helmets, unless you think that the helmet makes them who they are.
Second, why dont you go read the eFX thread from start to finish and realize how it all really started.