Vader cheek mark (c-scar)

[vaderdarth]

Do you think if I ask nicely, gino might teach me his teenage mutant ninja toothpick skills???

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Do you think if I ask nicely, gino might teach me his teenage mutant ninja toothpick skills???

JRX is the man with the toothpick skills. Seriously, how can you keep trolling, Dave?

 

[OldKen]

:thumbsup Kaane.

To be honest, before people started the debating...

I would have never believed I would rather have a licensed Vader helmet over a personal fan cast... Now after all the pics that show blatant proof of the flaws in all 3.. And the fact that the TM cheek had no C scar after being stripped. What else could that mean? It WAS added guys. TM himself said it wasn't shopped. And anyone with at least 1 eye can see where the resin is and where it isn't. This is a very clear picture fellas. Both figuratively AND LITERALLY.

Why wouldn't I want the one that is licensed? You know the MR ROTS helmets have went UP in value... Right?

The TM and SL are both VERY cool. But I honestly personally have lost a little respect for what I thought they were before all this started.

Show proof of the C "scar" on an unpainted unmodified cast or drop it. The horse has been resurrected and beaten back to death enough let it RIP.

 

[JediCarl]

Could we dispense with the funny gif's and jpg's? It was funny the first 10 times. Someone must have saved that restoration thread on the Den. The one where Jesper was pretending to be Indiana Jones or something. However, I don't recall any mention of the cheek mark.

Unfortunately, consistent levity is necessary in these threads.

 

[vaderdarth]

If it's fiberglass and it was removed with a toothpick, that's above my pay grade. Only an expert can answer, and I think you're right Qui, I should direct my request to Jesper. It's all a humorous attempt at how ridiculous that notion really is. Qui, you may not be familiar with fiberglass, but I am. It is what it is. digging a hole in the cheek with a toothpick..............little silly. Digging a filler out of a depression in the fiberglass..........now were talking. That implies logic.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

So, in your experience, what type of filler would not buckle when acetone is applied?

 

[vaderdarth]

for those of you with Den access, there is a little movie with a TM helmet. Light shining from one side...............C scar plain as day..................camera slowly moves to the opposite side...................now the cheek is as smooth as a baby's hiney......no C scar visible. It's freaking magic I say!!!!

ludicrous "theories" aside, just look at the screen helmet and decide for yourself whether or not you think it's there. Then move on. The two groups of members will never agree on certain issues. The argument is simply exhausting. So get to basics, watch the film frame by frame, keep your eye on the C scar, if you can always see it..........it's paint. If it is only visible from some angles........it's has ridges. Period.

Be your own expert.

 

[vaderdarth]

Define buckle Qui. I have used literally half a dozen fillers. I have filled with superglue. I have filled with two different colors of bondo type material. I have filled with model car putty (multiple colors), I have filled with more resin. I recently smoothed a bondo finish with acetone.........no buckling, Just allowed me to remove the grain and create a smooth finish. I'm sure some strippers or solvents can wrinkle up just about any surface that isn't metal. But I don't see acetone doing that if you're careful. The acetone was for the paint from what he revealed. It only brought the other filler to his attention once the paint was off. Then he removed it whatever IT was with a toothpick and a fingernail. That is my own experience Qui.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Buckle, soften, cause to be easily removed like in Bondo and other filler that have been weakened by the acetone on the TM.

 

[demorathis]

for those of you with Den access, there is a little movie with a TM helmet. Light shining from one side...............C scar plain as day..................camera slowly moves to the opposite side...................now the cheek is as smooth as a baby's hiney......no C scar visible. It's freaking magic I say!!!!

ludicrous "theories" aside, just look at the screen helmet and decide for yourself whether or not you think it's there. Then move on. The two groups of members will never agree on certain issues. The argument is simply exhausting. So get to basics, watch the film frame by frame, keep your eye on the C scar, if you can always see it..........it's paint. If it is only visible from some angles........it's has ridges. Period.

Be your own expert.

That point can be argued -- all of FEtt's silver details do not show up in all angles of light -- the nature of silver - or chrome - it will disappear without a lightsource to reflect off of it -- that's the reason they used SILVER for the surfaces of Vader's face, it is a derivative of blacks and greys and can blend --
case in point:
we do not always see anh vader's eyebrows which are silver - granted gunmetal, if they are obscured from light, they will not reflect...PLUS they have shape, so theoretically should catch MORE light.

The rough surface of the cheek should be so confused that not just the major line would showm but the fore and aft spongy details...

also I have an alien that has silver and chrome detailing on the teeth and fingernails and I thought the paint was scratched up or missing on some areas -- turns out, it was the absence of light reflecting off -- as it was next to a black velvet surface -- the silver has a reflecting quality that disappears in the absence of light --

I have tooth fillings that are silver and appear black or dark grey when I look into my mouth --absence of reflective light -- but that's against the whiter enamel of my molars--plus there's no light source opposit my view of my teeth on some areas.

Thus silver paint will appear black sometimes --
the whole reason most people can't even tell that Vader is actually silver and black -- the assumption is there but they believe the black is reflecting light appearing silver.

I think the likelihood of the detailing as weathering is more likely (used universe is well documented )than a really f-d up sculpt job or banged up costume piece at the beginning of filming -- (as it appears throughout).

 

[vaderdarth]

I forgot to add, you can use resin to fill in resin............same stuff, but typically it will not bond. It will adhere nicely but there is no melting into the existing pastic. I'm sure some resins can do that, but mostly they don't.

So now consider if it were just another layer of the same resin............you fill in the hole and once it's dry, you just won't see a lot of evidence that you did anything to it.......it may look uniform across the whole area. That doesn't mean that filler won't come out however.

 

[encased]

I'm more interested in which mold this argument defines as more accurate. If c-scar is dimensional and I'm satisfied with all the evidence I see, obviously I'm going to be on the lookout for a possible TM for sale.

If I believe it's more paint reflections I'm gonna try for a eFX Legend and be happy that the RB mold is considered more true to source.

So until I can see some of the restoration thread's pics I stay undecided. Now I'm disappointed that Vader geeks out there didn't save every one of those pics. I know when I look for Indy info I save EVERY pic I find even if I think I might have it already.

So no one else from the DEN has these saved? I either find it hard to believe or I'm just plain shocked. Pics disappear so damn fast on these threads I'm saving any I feel are interesting for later. Those pics were already gone by the time I found that thread over there. Wish I had seen it earlier.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

And am I correct in assuming acetone will not budge that and you would have to toothpick or otherwise dig it out?

 

[KaanE]

I forgot to add, you can use resin to fill in resin............same stuff, but typically it will not bond. It will adhere nicely but there is no melting into the existing pastic. I'm sure some resins can do that, but mostly they don't.

I think that's not true. If they used any kind of polyester based resin (like Gel Coat or Fiberglass Resin) to fill the Gel Coat, it's going to bond. Thats the reason we can use both or add two coats of both, because the bond and can't be separated.

 

[GINO]

Guys, it's not in dispute that the original TM had some kind of material on it that was able to be picked off.
It's just that once the material was picked off, it did not reveal a scar.

.

 

[cking]

Well, I don't own a TM mask, nor have I seen one in person. However - the pic showing the CLEARLY "smooth" cheek is evidence enough for my eyes that the c scar was not present on the TM mask at the moment that mask was photographed. The extra resin on the eyebrow is very apparent and there is nothing on that cheek which looks the same as that resin on the eyebrow.

I really have no real interest in this c scar discussion, but my eyes know what's there and what isn't and I see no "resin" that's still waiting to be removed from the cheek of that TM mask and I see no evidence of a c scar on that cheek.

I'm frankly a little baffled about how anyone can see otherwise!

Chris

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Guys, it's not in dispute that the original TM had some kind of material on it that was able to be picked off.
It's just that once the material was picked off, it did not reveal a scar.

.

And where that material was. The only shiny pieces of something look to be on the eyebrow ridge.

 

[vaderdarth]

I have used a resin to create a rectangular beveled casting from my own mould, again, I was just experimenting and I layed it up. I did not use a gel coat for this particular experiment because it wasn't going to be used, I simply wanted to tamper with the form a bit. I didnt have enough resin to fill the entire mould and had to walk away and run to the store. I had been told it would bond to itself. Now a few days went by, I came back, havent touched the piece by this point, mixed a new batch and continued the pour. Looked perfect, no huge voids, I could see a slight slight difference in color between the two layers (one was from old batch, the other new), but no discrepancies.

Pulled it a few days later. Drilled a hole to insert a wood screw to hold a bracket on it, and the screw literall separated the two layers from the pressure of a screwdriver. I ended up supergluing between them to stabilize, but even that didn't take when the screw went through.

Can't remember the resin, but that was my experience. I'm not insinuating that this was the case with that TM resin but it is a possibility. I"m not sure the adhesion thing is flawless if enough time goes by. It's certainly the case with all dental resins. You can only bond to the free radicals in the resin for about 12 - 24 hours. After that, no bonding.

Dave

 

[vaderdarth]

Chris, go hit the Den there is a movie over there. View that movie, rather than a still photo of the TM..................watch how smooth that cheek becomes. Looks nice and shiny, no C gouge. From the other side, looks like Lake Ponchartrain.

 

[AJK001]

Not eveyone has access or wants access to the Den. Maybe you should post it hear or don't mention it.