Vader cheek mark (c-scar)

[GINO]

The mold pics pictured was the actual baker mold.

 

[encased]

Gotcha. I don't recall the mold being labeled when the pic went up and I didn't want to have to go through that whole thread again to see. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

I was planning to stay away and not add more to the madness... but... I'm addicted like a crack ***** to smack. :confused

Who has the original image of this saved and can post it up? This image bugs the **** out of me for 2 reasons. 1st is the change from color to grayscale and the 2nd is that I see Photoshop artifacts (and I've dealt with PS for years).

Who's got it? Pony up please or PM me a link.

Vadermania owns the original and it his choice whether the un-photoshopped pictures of the original are released. But even then, that won't be enough. We were asked to post up or shut up, we did... and what did that accomplish? There were stipulations for the cast owners when acquiring this mask, so we can't just show everything just because people demand it. I'd rather honor that agreement and be ridiculed by some than breaking a promise.

We have to go by what we have that is from LFL and what we have shows nothing...to my eyes. I cannot see a scar where there is none, and on that mold, there is no huge divot on the cheek.

I see the C-scar impression in the RB mold, like the other indented details. It's faint, as I've always claimed ever since the SL popped up. I can understand why some don't see it. Hell, I may be biased and seeing things. Can't deny that. Can only go by what I see, and I see it.

No, the smaller pic in that other thread was the one I was told was photoshopped. It was a shot of the cheek that was right below this one.

That was me adding to the confusion. I've had that picture for years. I see all the other resin filler on there and thought it was just that covering the cheek details. It's been ages since the purchase and stripping threads of the TM. If it was photoshopped I've never seen the un-photoshopped version - again, we were under stipulations to always photoshop away certain details when showing raw cast pics, but I guess people won't accept that. Gino was there following the thread when it happened. He saw everything that was revealed until pictures was shared with a banned member (SPFX) at which point Jesper just stopped. Things were done out in the open at the beginning, but the usual issues with the Vader community quickly drove things underground... and I guess we never really came out of hiding until now... though, having argued about these things for years with what limited we were allowed to show.

At the time of the TM there were not many high res photos. NONE, except the DJ, of high end helmets had been shown. So to insinuate that all these details that match up to other helmets in more or less degree - but ALL unknown to everyone at the time - are added features... WOW.


You can take it for what you will.

 

[Davy Jones]

I dont know what is left for the TM owners to hide. Everyone is talking about the photoshopped pictures of the original. Ok, well if that was done to protect against the masses seeing the original details we now have this picture of a modified TM casting.(attached)
What could possibly be lost from posting the original unphotoshopped pictures? Its not like we could see that area any better. And not posting them when people are asking seems highly suspect to me. It would only help your argument to post them yet you all seem so reluctant to do so?

 

[voice in the crowd]

Now, I'm still not taking sides but I do find it odd that none of the TM or SL owners posted up pics.

Hi,

I don't see why people do not understand this. It is pretty clear and has been stated in the previous Vader threads.

I own copies of both the TM and SL helmets and to purchase either of the helmets there was an agreement in place with buyers that photographs cannot be posted unless permission was granted.

The minute either TM or SL say we can post pics I will post up as many pics as photobucket can carry - until permission is granted the owners hands are tied.

If anybody wants pics of any other Vader helmets I have that have no restrictions please feel free to ask and I will post pics any time of any part of the mask or helmet. Probably the most relevant mask I could post pics of would be the VP and as clearly stated in the other thread there was a deliberate decision to put no restrictions on it outside of not allowing recasting.

Also please be aware that maybe some TM or SL owners are in a different time zones and when all the US based board members are debating Vader we may well be tucked up in bed

It is 7 am here just now and I am just starting work. So any photo requests cannot be dealt with until I get home, get up to my attic unpack whatever helmets people want to see - ones without restrictions - and I photograph them.

Possibly either TM or SL will allow photos of their helmets between now and when I get home so I could get more pics - but don't hold your breath :lol

Cheers Chris

 

[Darth Niob]

This is NOT a modified casting.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

I dont know what is left for the TM owners to hide. Everyone is talking about the photoshopped pictures of the original. Ok, well if that was done to protect against the masses seeing the original details we now have this picture of a modified TM casting.(attached)
What could possibly be lost from posting the original unphotoshopped pictures? Its not like we could see that area any better. And not posting them when people are asking seems highly suspect to me. It would only help your argument to post them yet you all seem so reluctant to do so?

I don't have it. My best guess for anyone to post it is the owner, vadermania.

 

[encased]

But now that we have a licensed helmet form the RB mold, shouldn't that change things in regards to secrecy? I would think the guys who own a TM or a SL would want to get the cameras out to be able to do side by sides and really compare.

Or do we have to wait until the eFX is out in order to get pics of those helmets?

The fact is those pics of the TM were out, people saw them and sounds like some took that info and tried to incorporate that into their own helmets. The ones that own the TM's shouldn't really care what the rest of us have to decide over as the TM is never going to be an option to us. The only one that has a claim over ANY helmet repros is Lucas since he owns it.

They're not screen used, not official, just worthless one offs(monetarily) . They're only worth the material they're made out of. It's all just an ego thing about my casting's better than yours.

It really is insanity.

I for one am tired of hearing "It's proof because i say it is." from BOTH sides. I'll make up my own mind, thank you.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

They're not screen used, not official, just worthless one offs(monetarily) . They're only worth the material they're made out of. It's all just an ego thing about my casting's better than yours.

You think they are only worth their material? That they have no value beyond that? I guess you'd be surprised.

 

[encased]

I do get it. You promised not to divulge info on the helmet purchased. Along with the super secret handshake. Kidding.

But the eFX lid kind of changed all that and i'm surprised you haven't gotten the go ahead to post yet. The eFx thread was going for days with people asking. I'm not just inferring that folks won't post based on this day old thread.

 

[encased]

You think they are only worth their material? That they have no value beyond that? I guess you'd be surprised.

I have an authentic Chris Reeves Superman costume made on the same machines as the original with the same material from the film. But i can't tell you who i got it from, and there's no way you can verify this. And there's no way for you to compare it to the original screen worn costume.

How much will you give me for an exact copy? Oh, and you can't show anybody either after you buy it.

Just trying to illustrate a point here. See how silly these circumstances are with a different prop. This is how it appears to the rest of us.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Well, that's usually how things are in the Vader community. From all factions. There's a long history there. You wouldn't believe how things were when I first joined. Though it seems extreme now... it was worse then.

Heard of a time before I joined where everything was shared openly and without too many stipulations. That got ruined by a few. I never experienced that. I certainly tried to attempt getting back to that level of openness when I formed The Prop Den all those years ago. Am I flawless? No! Is there still a long way to go? Hell yes.

But now the focus is on the TM and SL and we appear reluctant to share. Just wait a few months and it's another helmet and that owner will appear reluctant to share... it goes round and round and round and you start either becoming fanatical and upholding the system or you give up from the madness. I've tried my best to break everything Vader out of the madness... so much is out in the open now and most of it being shared on The Den... but it's more fun to ridicule that forum... but sure... we Vader fans are a crazy bunch... no doubts there. But there is only so much drive before everything becomes pointless... if you share one thing... everybody wants three other things... and so on.

Who is really sharing... who's really hoarding. Everybody and no one. It's like waves on a beach. In a few months this will all have faded away in people's memories and it will be new helmets to question, new people to argue with, new people to attack and ridicule... all the factions coming together and creating a nuclear holocaust of a thread, like we saw in the eFX thread. And I was equally to blame for that. My eyes have been opened. The times have changed. It's time for a fresh start. Is it possible... or will things just quickly revert back to usual, as always happens.

 

[encased]

Exactly why i read threads but hardly interact in them. Just look at my post count and when I joined. And I was reading long before signing up. The eFX thread sucked me in though.

Hold up, hey there's a new vader guy asking questions, GET HIM!!!!!

 

[GromitFan]

Being an art history student who collects fine art prints, I can tell you this is called provenance and art items sold with questionable or unverifiable provenance sell for much less than authenicated items with a track-able, official history.

I agree with your logic. I am a huge film buff, and Star Wars started that for me. George Lucas led me to Kurosawa. Kurosawa led me to John Ford; John Ford led me to Orson Wells, which lead to lots and lots of other directors....I have collected high-end Vader stuff for years and have never understood this secrecy garbagde. It makes no sense, but then we are talking about grey market items anyway.

I have been reading much over at the Prop Den, and much of it has blown me away and really impressed me and other parts have only helped reinforce Gino's perspective of that collective.
I was actually hoping they were going to "rise above it" over there and not prove him right.
I was not that lucky, even though I feel like the truth about things is still muddled and in
between the two now entrenched positions on things like the C-mark.

Thank goodness Master Replicas, and now eFX, exists, so we fans can get officially licensed products with pedigree and provenance.

I wrote it before, and then deleted it, since it was in the wrong context, but it is appropriate
here in the context of the Vader casts that have pedigree but are shrouded in secrecy:
What is the point of owning a stolen Rembrandt if you cannot share your joy of your ownership of it with others openly?

I have an authentic Chris Reeves Superman costume made on the same machines as the original with the same material from the film. But i can't tell you who i got it from, and there's no way you can verify this. And there's no way for you to compare it to the original screen worn costume.

How much will you give me for an exact copy? Oh, and you can't show anybody either after you buy it.

Just trying to illustrate a point here. See how silly these circumstances are with a different prop. This is how it appears to the rest of us.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Yeah, sorry it got derailed like that and my part in doing that.

I know it's a sad truth... but usually... the more heated the argument... the better the helmet. Just sorry to see eFX new baby have to go through all that.

 

[defstartrooper]

I do get it. You promised not to divulge info on the helmet purchased. Along with the super secret handshake. Kidding.

But the eFX lid kind of changed all that and i'm surprised you haven't gotten the go ahead to post yet. The eFx thread was going for days with people asking. I'm not just inferring that folks won't post based on this day old thread.

The eFX lid changed nothing, the eFX lid doesn't have the detail in question and the reason these things have been kept private is because of A-holes who have in the past used released images to incorporate details into their own helmets and i use the term own helmets loosely because they're usually recasts which they are trying to disguise and add gravitas to by adding accurate details.
And those same A-holes by the way use those details to sell their own wares for hundreds of dollars not for material cost so they're hardly worthless.

Oh and it's not just the TM and SL owners by the way, GINO has claimed for years all his Vader helmet castings are authentic ask him to post a hi-res image of any of his casts it won't happen.

 

[GromitFan]

Which is why in a best market model, anyone should be able to openly state and show receipts and proofs of transfer where and when they got their item.

It won't stop the eBay scammers, but that is just like the art world. There were so many faked Dali prints out there that provenance is the only thing that often separates a print being worth $10,000 or $10.

All this clandestine stuff is just so much BS and only contributes to the problem without solving the issue of folks claiming their items have a better pedigree than they might actually have.

The eFX lid changed nothing, the eFX lid doesn't have the detail in question and the reason these things have been kept private is because of A-holes who have in the past used released images to incorporate details into their own helmets and i use the term own helmets loosely because they're usually recasts which they are trying to disguise and add gravitas to by adding accurate details.
And those same A-holes by the way use those details to sell their own wares for hundreds of dollars not for material cost so they're hardly worthless.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Which is why in a best market model, anyone should be able to openly state and show receipts and proofs of transfer where and when they got their item.

It won't stop the eBay scammers, but that is just like the art world. There were so many faked Dali prints out there that provenance is the only thing that often separates a print being worth $10,000 or $10.

All this clandestine stuff is just so much BS and only contributes to the problem without solving the issue of folks claiming their items have a better pedigree than they might actually have.

You didn't live it, so don't really have the same perspective that most of us have. It's been like the aftermath of a war... were everybody was holding back because of their experiences and memories. You try being ripped off and see how that makes you feel about sharing too many things again.

 

[encased]

Again, I could see and understand the secrecy if you owned the original screen used helmet. But not an illegitimate pirated recast to which no one but Lucas owns the rights to. Anyone, no matter how much you dislike them, has the right to recreate their own version with whatever info is out there. But i won't go so far as to defend recasting which is pirating.

All it is is one pirater arguing with another pirater over who owns the rights to details.

Answer is NEITHER.

 

[Trap Joe]

Just asking...is the only thing that would give some closure a photo of the COMPLETELY stripped TM before molding?

to answer your question: NO
I regret, I took no photo of the state without tusks. But I would never post them without permission of the owner. I made one little exception yesterday with the two pictures I´ve photographed myself , because I was bashed so heavily. But that´s it for the moment.
Only Vadermania or Jesper could possibly have some they took.

I´ve watched over every step, so I know about every single detail. Only the tusks have been attached and the resin on the right eybrow was removed and the TM letters have been added. The C-scar has always has been there underneath the paint. The picture with no C-scar, Gino posted is a poorely photoshopped one.









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