Re: Star Wars OT UNALTERED Bluray!!!

As I said, my disagreement is with the claim that it only has a very small appeal. Unreleased versions of movies, even far less popular movies, have moved the needle before.

But in the bigger scheme of things that needle move is little more than a slight twitch. Is there an audience for unreleased versions of movies, of course there is, is it large enough (ie profitable enough) to make a studio move heaven and Earth to release, esp. when they don't own the distribution rights? Not likely.
 
Re: Star Wars OT UNALTERED Bluray!!!

AJ,

I don't disagree with that. I'm not saying that there's no appeal, or that fan interest won't factor in at all.

Really, I'm saying two things:

1. In comparison to the people who just don't care, the market of hardcore fans is small. That's why I wouldn't expect there to be a wide release of the OOT, like, as a standalone trilogy pack or as individual films.

2. Disney may well release the films, but it will be because doing so is economically easy and a moneymaker for them and not solely to appeal to the hardcore, old school fans.

To put it another way, I don't think Disney is going to do everything that has to be done to get the OOT in the hands of fans based purely on the desire of those fans (or the purchasing power). If it happens -- and I do think it will at some point -- I think it'll happen because they'll have already done the work for some other reason like doing a rescan for a higher-def (e.g., 4K or 8K) release of the SEs, and to do that, they figure "Might as well clean the whole thing up, then add in the cleaned up SE stuff afterwards." In essence, to do Job A (release a rescanned SE) they already will have completed Job B (rescan the OOT). So, they might as well sell both and make additional "gravy" money off of Job B. If they do that, though, I'd expect it to only appear in a megaset, not as a standalone trilogy or as individual films. The SEs will be sold that way, but not the OOT. They'll use the OOT to move the megasets because they'll know the hardcore fans will pay through the nose for it.
 
Re: Star Wars OT UNALTERED Bluray!!!

To expand on this point -- because I think it will be necessary, given the level of fandom here -- those of us who post to these forms, for the most part, are HUGE fans of Star Wars. We are the outliers in society. The vast majority of the public doesn't really care about the SE changes.

I think this is a kind of defeatist way of looking at it. The "vast majority of the public" consists of drooling subhumans who are happy to watch Will Ferrell drive racecars or whatever. And yet, we get five versions of Blade Runner. Too mainstream? Let's get more out there: we get Kurosawa's Throne of Blood with TWO translations. Hell, Kurosawa's Ikiru just got high def treatment. If Criterion can find a way to turn a buck making Ikiru, which is obscure even to people who are art school enough to know who Kurosawa is in passing, then there is no way in hell Disney can't turn a buck with the OOT. No. Chance. It can be done, and profitably. How many people do you think bought Ikiru? Seven? Eight? How many do you think will buy the OOT?

EDIT: I just read your follow up posts. I hear what you're saying. It bums me out though...
 
Re: Star Wars OT UNALTERED Bluray!!!

I think this is a kind of defeatist way of looking at it. The "vast majority of the public" consists of drooling subhumans who are happy to watch Will Ferrell drive racecars or whatever. And yet, we get five versions of Blade Runner. Too mainstream? Let's get more out there: we get Kurosawa's Throne of Blood with TWO translations. Hell, Kurosawa's Ikiru just got high def treatment. If Criterion can find a way to turn a buck making Ikiru, which is obscure even to people who are art school enough to know who Kurosawa is in passing, then there is no way in hell Disney can't turn a buck with the OOT. No. Chance. It can be done, and profitably. How many people do you think bought Ikiru? Seven? Eight? How many do you think will buy the OOT?

If you reread my most recent post, I do think Disney can turn a profit on the OOT, but it has to be done in a particular way (or rather, that's the only way I can see it working. There may be others, of course).

Criterion is, by design, a company for niche collectors. Their discs tend to sell for (if memory serves) anywhere from double to triple what a mainstream released disc costs. They're priced and designed and produced to appeal to collectors. I would venture that Criterion also is set up in terms of its production chain to function specifically so that they can do smaller runs of discs.

Disney, on the other hand, might actually find it cost prohibitive to do a smaller run of discs. Like, if the contract says that you have to buy your disc runs in the millions, rather than, say, under 10,000, then you're stuck with that. I don't know if Disney owns its entire production chain, or if it handles that through subsidiaries or independent contractors, but that's a factor to consider.

As for Blade Runner, I think you need to consider what was released. The 5-version set contained:

- The American theatrical cut
- The international theatrical cut
- The "Director's Cut" that was released on DVD in the 90s
- The "Rough" cut or workprint cut (I forget)
- The Final Cut overseen by Scott himself (allegedly).

However, of those versions released, my understanding is that ONLY the "Final Cut" was remastered or rescanned and cleaned up. Everything else was basically treated like the "bonus discs" that came with the '06 release of the SEs. In other words, whatever condition they were last left in was the condition you got. There was no cleanup done for any of the others.

So, to compare Star Wars, it'd be like releasing a cleaned up version of the SEs...alongside lower-def versions of all the previous releases from the LD rips to the '97 SEs in glorious VHS-quality resolution, to the '04 DVD versions. In other words, it's easy to take your old, out of date versions and stick 'em on a disc. That requires no work. You already have them.

Let's also not forget that the 5-disc version of the film was sold at a premium. Initially, if memory serves, it was ONLY available in the VK case (which sits in my basement now...) and which sold for something like $70. Eventually that dropped in price to around $40, but that's still Criterion-level price points for a single film.

Lastly, unlike either Criterion discs or the Blade Runner films, the rights involved in the OOT are split. That creates an extra hurdle.


I think it'll happen. I just don't think it'll happen immediately or for the reasons fans tend to think. Or at least not solely for those reasons.
 
Re: Star Wars OT UNALTERED Bluray!!!

However, of those versions released, my understanding is that ONLY the "Final Cut" was remastered or rescanned and cleaned up. Everything else was basically treated like the "bonus discs" that came with the '06 release of the SEs. In other words, whatever condition they were last left in was the condition you got. There was no cleanup done for any of the others.

What you talking about Solo? There was work done on the other versions of Blade Runner. It may not have been comparable to The Final Cut, but they were definitely a passing grade in improved presentation overall. Heck, the double dip release of the five-version set included a new video codec for the Assembly Cut. And if you compare the original Director's Cut DVD to the Director's Cut on BluRay, it's straight up night and day. Plus, Scott has a tendency to play around with the color timing well beyond what his films looked like when originally released, theatrical, director's cut or final cut. Remember the outcry when ALIEN fans saw that both versions of the film had the 'Director's Cut' re-colored golden cargo bay before Brett's death? Yeah, that was thankfully fixed on the BluRay.
 
Re: Star Wars OT UNALTERED Bluray!!!

As big of a seller as the OT will always be, and as big as SW is in general, I think there is also a lot of burnout in the public for buying it repeatedly.

Every "normal" adult I know thinks of George Lucas as reselling the same movies repeatedly with a few changes. For some reason he gets flak for it when there are no more copies of his movies for sale than any other big movie. Several times I have pointed out to people that he actually has not released anything more redundant than many other big movies, and they were surprised to realize that.
 
Re: Star Wars OT UNALTERED Bluray!!!

Kurosawa's Ikiru just got high def treatment. If Criterion can find a way to turn a buck making Ikiru, which is obscure even to people who are art school enough to know who Kurosawa is in passing, then there is no way in hell Disney can't turn a buck with the OOT. No. Chance. It can be done, and profitably. How many people do you think bought Ikiru? Seven? Eight?
Make that nine! Thanks for the info!
 
Last edited:
Re: Star Wars OT UNALTERED Bluray!!!

My pleasure! I'll take Takashi Shimura on a swing set over a hundred end of the world blockbusters. Such a great movie!
You betcha!
I discovered that film in college in the 80's. So moving. I had it on VHS and have been hoping for a hi def version for years.

Now if I can only get A Taxing Woman and Tampopo.
 
Re: Star Wars OT UNALTERED Bluray!!!

I'm still waiting on a copy of The Crowd, myself. At this point, I don't think I'll be getting that anytime soon.:darnkids
 
Re: Star Wars OT UNALTERED Bluray!!!

2. Disney may well release the films, but it will be because doing so is economically easy and a moneymaker for them and not solely to appeal to the hardcore, old school fans.

.

Well, I do agree with that. Completely. Disney is a HUGE company. Far bigger than most people realize. I wont pretend for a second they actually give a damn about anything other than how to make more money.

As big of a seller as the OT will always be, and as big as SW is in general, I think there is also a lot of burnout in the public for buying it repeatedly.

Every "normal" adult I know thinks of George Lucas as reselling the same movies repeatedly with a few changes. For some reason he gets flak for it when there are no more copies of his movies for sale than any other big movie. Several times I have pointed out to people that he actually has not released anything more redundant than many other big movies, and they were surprised to realize that.

He gets flak because he's been such a huge pain in the ass about it. Star wars was released for download this year. People like me have been digital for a decade now. I own a dvd player but I have no idea where the remote is or if it even works. It hasn't even been turned on since I moved into this apartment in Feb. But one of my favorite movies didn't become available until now? Like it's a huge shock that sci-fi fans like gadgets.

This is really another topic, but it's a hot button for me, since I was an early adopter of digital and many of my favorites decided to be jerks about it. The irony is that their stated motivation was always financial (fear of making illegal downloads easier), and while examples like Star Wars still made big happy piles of cash, some of the hold outs suffered big for it, while the companies who embraced digital from the start pretty much took over the world. It's an argument from 15 years ago where I was right, but still haven't got my fill of saying I told you so.
 
Re: Star Wars OT UNALTERED Bluray!!!

To expand on this point -- because I think it will be necessary, given the level of fandom here -- those of us who post to these forms, for the most part, are HUGE fans of Star Wars. We are the outliers in society. The vast majority of the public doesn't really care about the SE changes. Plus, the vast majority of the public doesn't care about film preservation and history, either, so they're more inclined to say "Who cares? They made the f/x look better and more modern instead of the cheesy 70s stuff." I recognize that this mindset is totally alien to most people here, but it really does exist out there...
I learned this hard lesson several years ago, but the topic of discussion was Bonus Materials included in DVD/Blu-Ray sets. I was talking with a co-worker at my last place of employment, a guy who I thought was a "movie buff". I asked him about the Bonus Materials on whichever DVD/Blu-Ray we were discussing, and he said, "Oh, I never watch that stuff. I just want to watch the movie." Now, my closest friends and I are just as interested in how movies are made as we are in the movies themselves, so I made it a point to deliberately start asking people about Bonus Materials from that point on, and the vast majority (at least 95%) said the same thing--they just wanted to watch the movies, and couldn't care less about how they were made.

Sure enough, not long after that there was an article in the Los Angeles Times about how movie studios were seriously considering releasing DVDs and Blu-Rays without bonus features because they had done the research and discovered that, if people were given a choice between a DVD/Blu-Ray package with just the movie or a higher-priced DVD/Blu-Ray package with the movie and bonus features, the "movie only" versions were outselling the "movie and bonus features" versions on an average of four to one. So, as the studios saw it, they were spending money needlessly to produce additional content that almost nobody wanted. Fortunately, Blu-Ray won out in the "HD vs. Blu-Ray" wars, so the studios were "forced" to add the bonus features in order to justify the additional cost for Blu-Rays (when they were the "new" medium for home entertainment, that is).

So, as much as I don't like to admit it, I have to acknowledge the fact that those of us who want the unaltered theatrical versions of the Original Trilogy movies are in a small minority, and as more time passes and more generations of the "I don't care" crowd are born, our minority will only get smaller.
 
Re: Star Wars OT UNALTERED Bluray!!!

Very apt comparison.

I think there are a lot of people who want the OOT, and I think there's a film preservation argument to be made for its release, but as with discs loaded with bonus materials, I think it's more for a limited run, premium priced package. Like how the LOTR extended editions have a ton of extras...but they still released the theatrical versions first.

I expect that, if and when we get the OOT remastered, it'll be in a megaset and ONLY in a megaset. There are ways to make the price point work, but there's no reason for Disney to rush that process now.

I expect Lucas knows of Disney's overall, long-term plans, and generally mentioned it to Landis, who reported it publicly, but without knowing when it's going to happen, there's really no point in getting excited.
 
Re: Star Wars OT UNALTERED Bluray!!!

I learned this hard lesson several years ago, but the topic of discussion was Bonus Materials included in DVD/Blu-Ray sets. I was talking with a co-worker at my last place of employment, a guy who I thought was a "movie buff". I asked him about the Bonus Materials on whichever DVD/Blu-Ray we were discussing, and he said, "Oh, I never watch that stuff. I just want to watch the movie." Now, my closest friends and I are just as interested in how movies are made as we are in the movies themselves, so I made it a point to deliberately start asking people about Bonus Materials from that point on, and the vast majority (at least 95%) said the same thing--they just wanted to watch the movies, and couldn't care less about how they were made.

Apples and oranges.

I don't watch bonus materials either. This is something different.
 
Re: Star Wars OT UNALTERED Bluray!!!

You betcha!
I discovered that film in college in the 80's. So moving. I had it on VHS and have been hoping for a hi def version for years.

Now if I can only get A Taxing Woman and Tampopo.

Hah! Just talked about Tampopo last weekend while having lunch at a japanese noodle restaurant in dusseldorf.
 
Re: Star Wars OT UNALTERED Bluray!!!

Very apt comparison.

I think there are a lot of people who want the OOT, and I think there's a film preservation argument to be made for its release, but as with discs loaded with bonus materials, I think it's more for a limited run, premium priced package. Like how the LOTR extended editions have a ton of extras...but they still released the theatrical versions first.

I expect that, if and when we get the OOT remastered, it'll be in a megaset and ONLY in a megaset. There are ways to make the price point work, but there's no reason for Disney to rush that process now.

I expect Lucas knows of Disney's overall, long-term plans, and generally mentioned it to Landis, who reported it publicly, but without knowing when it's going to happen, there's really no point in getting excited.

And I will buy this megaset. Happily. There is really no conceivable price they could charge that I would balk at. I'm sure many others are in the same boat. I only type this in case Disney is reading :D
 
Re: Star Wars OT UNALTERED Bluray!!!

And I will buy this megaset. Happily. There is really no conceivable price they could charge that I would balk at. I'm sure many others are in the same boat. I only type this in case Disney is reading :D

Hey, I'm the same way. I don't like the prequels or the SEs. I may end up hating the ST, too. But I'll stick 'em on a shelf just to have the OOT properly restored, so I can show it to my kids the way it was (in my opinion) meant to be seen.
 
Re: Star Wars OT UNALTERED Bluray!!!

Apples and oranges.

I don't watch bonus materials either. This is something different.
I don't disagree. I was simply attempting to make the point that I (and probably many of the members here) was under the impression at one time that everyone who likes movies also has an interest in everything that goes into making them, and that I discovered just how erroneous that assumption was. As such, it's relevance to the main topic was to convey the notion that those of us who want to have the original Original Trilogy movies released on DVD and/or Blu-Ray might be overestimating the actual demand for them among "movie buffs".

Since Solo4114 mentioned film preservation, I do believe the original theatrical versions of the Original Trilogy movies should be restored and preserved as a part of movie history regardless of whether or not they're produced and sold for home viewing.
 
Re: Star Wars OT UNALTERED Bluray!!!

One thing Disney does well at is their attention to quality reproduction of imagery for the BluRay market. The work they have done in the classic old animated films, such as Cinderella.... completely mind-blowing at how well they managed to restore each frame of that film.

Sorry but, what have you been smoking????? :confused

This can't be the same Disney you're talking about. The blu-rays they release are an atrocity:

http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.php?thread=1063732&boardid=2

http://www.dvdizzy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29946

They wouldn't know what restoration is even if it slapped them in the face, with a chair :lol

E9yWZ.jpg


I learned this hard lesson several years ago, but the topic of discussion was Bonus Materials included in DVD/Blu-Ray sets. I was talking with a co-worker at my last place of employment, a guy who I thought was a "movie buff". I asked him about the Bonus Materials on whichever DVD/Blu-Ray we were discussing, and he said, "Oh, I never watch that stuff. I just want to watch the movie." Now, my closest friends and I are just as interested in how movies are made as we are in the movies themselves, so I made it a point to deliberately start asking people about Bonus Materials from that point on, and the vast majority (at least 95%) said the same thing--they just wanted to watch the movies, and couldn't care less about how they were made.

Sure enough, not long after that there was an article in the Los Angeles Times about how movie studios were seriously considering releasing DVDs and Blu-Rays without bonus features because they had done the research and discovered that, if people were given a choice between a DVD/Blu-Ray package with just the movie or a higher-priced DVD/Blu-Ray package with the movie and bonus features, the "movie only" versions were outselling the "movie and bonus features" versions on an average of four to one. So, as the studios saw it, they were spending money needlessly to produce additional content that almost nobody wanted. Fortunately, Blu-Ray won out in the "HD vs. Blu-Ray" wars, so the studios were "forced" to add the bonus features in order to justify the additional cost for Blu-Rays (when they were the "new" medium for home entertainment, that is).

So, as much as I don't like to admit it, I have to acknowledge the fact that those of us who want the unaltered theatrical versions of the Original Trilogy movies are in a small minority, and as more time passes and more generations of the "I don't care" crowd are born, our minority will only get smaller.

Most people also buy any new edition released. Like the new Back to the Future blu-ray release which use the exact same discs made for the 2010 release. Same content, same disc, higher price.
 
Re: Star Wars OT UNALTERED Bluray!!!

That is horrendous. Any hopes I had for a proper restoration just sank.
 
Back
Top