Unaltered Original Star Wars Trilogy on Blu Ray?

[Mottrex]

I'm referring to pre digital 3D, when I was a kid they would play old monster movies on TV in 3D but you had to buy a large slurpee at 7-11 to get the glasses. I remember trying it once, however the effects weren't visible on a 13" B&W tube TV.
This morning my daughter pointed out her DVD copy of Coraline came with a 3D disc and glasses (she's digging through totes trying to find it), she tried it on our old tube in 2009 and said it looked bad but I'm curious to try it out on a flat screen. It would be cool to try watching some of the old classic movies in that format but not cool enough to invest in new equipment.
I also got a pair of 3D underwear for Christmas that came with glasses, I'll ask my wife tomorrow if it enhances her experience!

I am guessing its all about how they recorded/ processed the film.
But you can certainly watch 3D celluloid in Black and white..
I collect old 3D spectoscope(like a viewmaster) but naughty images, well it was for the time..

 

[Mottrex]

A quick question if I may..
Are we talking about a pristine cleaned up but no alterations version of SW or as it was originally shown in the cinemas back then..

My experience was whilst the movie being cool as and blowing my young mind was grainy had visable scratches and jumpy scenes/reel changes maybe the result from repeated showings or splits in the movie. Being 77 I also had to endure two Farah Farcet clones chuffing away on their cigarettes belching out clouds across the screen leaving me with red puffy eyes..
My point is the OG release wasn't that great quality wise and you really were in the hands of who ever had laid their hands on it down the chain of cinemas before yours.
Back then there might only be a handful of prints and also you had to wait your towns turn to actually get any movie..


Mott

 

[blewis17]

A quick question if I may..
Are we talking about a pristine cleaned up but no alterations version of SW or as it was originally shown in the cinemas back then..

My experience was whilst the movie being cool as and blowing my young mind was grainy had visable scratches and jumpy scenes/reel changes maybe the result from repeated showings or splits in the movie. Being 77 I also had to endure two Farah Farcet clones chuffing away on their cigarettes belching out clouds across the screen leaving me with red puffy eyes..
My point is the OG release wasn't that great quality wise and you really were in the hands of who ever had laid their hands on it down the chain of cinemas before yours.
Back then there might only be a handful of prints and also you had to wait your towns turn to actually get any movie..


Mott

So, to put it more succinctly,: What would constitute an unaltered release of the original SW film (1977) to TheRPF members?

1) Clean up the original print(s) from dust and scratches. Acceptable?
2) Perform color balance to get the print back to its original state. Acceptable?
3) On Star Wars, the original crawl WITHOUT "A New Hope" heading. Acceptable?
4) Sound should be ONLY available in stereo or mono, as the majority of the OT prints were recorded that way (No 5.1 or 7.1 surround, no Atmos, etc. and don't even think about offering it as an option). Acceptable?
5) Do NOT enhance/correct the jittery light saber effects. After all, that's how it was ORIGINALLY presented to us in 1977. Acceptable?
6) Do NOT remove any matt lines or cropping squares from bluescreen elements. After all, that's how it was ORIGINALLY presented to us in 1977. Acceptable?
7) Remove any dialogue that was added later to new prints to clarify the scene (e.g. Close the Blast doors/Open the blast doors, and C3P0's monologue about the tractor beam power station). Acceptable?
8) HAN SHOOTS FIRST/ONLY. Acceptable?

 

[Axlotl]

There are a few minor changes I wouldn't mind.
The matte lines always bugged me. Clean those up.
There's a scene where Vader's hand gestures don't match his dialog. Fix that.
There's a scene where Ben's saber isn't animated. Fix that.
There may be a few more I can't remember, but those come immediately to mind. Leave everything else alone.

 

[edge10]

So, to put it more succinctly,: What would constitute an unaltered release of the original SW film (1977) to TheRPF members?

1) Clean up the original print(s) from dust and scratches. Acceptable?
2) Perform color balance to get the print back to its original state. Acceptable?
3) On Star Wars, the original crawl WITHOUT "A New Hope" heading. Acceptable?
3) Sound should be ONLY available in stereo or mono, as the majority of the OT prints were recorded that way (No 5.1 or 7.1 surround, no Atmos, etc. and don't even think about offering it as an option). Acceptable?
4) Do NOT enhance/correct the jittery light saber effects. After all, that's how it was ORIGINALLY presented to us in 1977. Acceptable?
5) Do NOT remove any matt lines or cropping squares from bluescreen elements. After all, that's how it was ORIGINALLY presented to us in 1977. Acceptable?
6) Remove any dialogue that was added later to new prints to clarify the scene (e.g. Close the Blast doors/Open the blast doors, and C3P0's monologue about the tractor beam power station). Acceptable?
7) HAN SHOOTS FIRST. Acceptable?


BTW: the person who has come closest to this herculean task is former RPF'er and composer Mike Verta. I think his OCD kicked in years ago and it has been his passion project.

You are incorrect. Team Negative 1 has already done it. It is called Project 4K77.

 

[batguy]

There are a few minor changes I wouldn't mind.
The matte lines always bugged me. Clean those up.
There's a scene where Vader's hand gestures don't match his dialog. Fix that.
There's a scene where Ben's saber isn't animated. Fix that.
There may be a few more I can't remember, but those come immediately to mind. Leave everything else alone.

Once you start fixing things it becomes a different endeavor. Then everyone starts debating endlessly about what should be fixed or not.


You could please 99% of the public by using a simple formula: Fix the technical stuff as much as possible, and include ONLY the creative changes that were made in the OT era.

But the big SW fans are the other 1% who get nitpicky. So the debate never ends, and the version that would please 99% of the public never happens.

(Yes, I'm very weary of these SE debates.)

 

[blewis17]

You are incorrect. Team Negative 1 has already done it. It is called Project 4K77.

This would need to be the "No DNR" version of 4K77, correct?

 

[edge10]

This would need to be the "No DNR" version of 4K77, correct?

It depends. I was just reviewing the notes on the site and they recommend DNR for TV viewing, but, you do you.

 

[anamorphicWayne]

RE: 6) Remove any dialogue that was added later to new prints to clarify the scene (e.g. Close the Blast doors/Open the blast doors, and C3P0's monologue about the tractor beam power station). Acceptable?

This version should have both audio tracks (stereo and mono). At the time, our theater wasn't equip with stereo so our release had the mono track. To keep it authentic, 'Close the Blast doors/Open the blast doors', should be left in. The viewer should be given the option of what audio track they want. Fortunately, 4K77 has already done that for us.

 

[Bigdaddy]

So, to put it more succinctly,: What would constitute an unaltered release of the original SW film (1977) to TheRPF members?

1) Clean up the original print(s) from dust and scratches. Acceptable?
2) Perform color balance to get the print back to its original state. Acceptable?
3) On Star Wars, the original crawl WITHOUT "A New Hope" heading. Acceptable?
3) Sound should be ONLY available in stereo or mono, as the majority of the OT prints were recorded that way (No 5.1 or 7.1 surround, no Atmos, etc. and don't even think about offering it as an option). Acceptable?
4) Do NOT enhance/correct the jittery light saber effects. After all, that's how it was ORIGINALLY presented to us in 1977. Acceptable?
5) Do NOT remove any matt lines or cropping squares from bluescreen elements. After all, that's how it was ORIGINALLY presented to us in 1977. Acceptable?
6) Remove any dialogue that was added later to new prints to clarify the scene (e.g. Close the Blast doors/Open the blast doors, and C3P0's monologue about the tractor beam power station). Acceptable?
7) HAN SHOOTS FIRST. Acceptable?

That's a great video (a bit long), the "lost shots" he showed during the first hour were amazing! Really shows how good effects could be achieved without digital tech. He did a great job breaking down various types of restoration for laymen. Thanks for posting it blewis17

 

[The Goon]

So, to put it more succinctly,: What would constitute an unaltered release of the original SW film (1977) to TheRPF members?

1) Clean up the original print(s) from dust and scratches. Acceptable?
2) Perform color balance to get the print back to its original state. Acceptable?
3) On Star Wars, the original crawl WITHOUT "A New Hope" heading. Acceptable?
3) Sound should be ONLY available in stereo or mono, as the majority of the OT prints were recorded that way (No 5.1 or 7.1 surround, no Atmos, etc. and don't even think about offering it as an option). Acceptable?
4) Do NOT enhance/correct the jittery light saber effects. After all, that's how it was ORIGINALLY presented to us in 1977. Acceptable?
5) Do NOT remove any matt lines or cropping squares from bluescreen elements. After all, that's how it was ORIGINALLY presented to us in 1977. Acceptable?
6) Remove any dialogue that was added later to new prints to clarify the scene (e.g. Close the Blast doors/Open the blast doors, and C3P0's monologue about the tractor beam power station). Acceptable?
7) HAN SHOOTS FIRST. Acceptable?

As far as I'm concerned:

1 - Acceptable. 2 - Acceptable. 3 - Don't care one way or another at this point. 4 - Acceptable. 5 - Don't care one way or another. 6 - Acceptable. 7 - Acceptable, with one comment. Han didn't shoot first--he shot, PERIOD. Greedo never got a shot off in the original un-tampered-with version.

 

[Laspector]

I really really really wish they had left in that original shot of the X-wings opening their wings. I remember thinking that was the coolest thing I had ever seen. As a 12 year old in '77 something like that would've never occurred to me. Wings splitting in half? WOW! That was even before I had ever seen an F14 Tomcat with moving wings! In the special edition they put so much motion of the ships into the shot, you can barely even tell they are opening. For a first time viewer it isn't even really noticable.

 

[Psab keel]

To me cleaning up/ minimizing matte lines still falls under the category of restoration because it's a technical improvement. It's taking the existing material and making it look as good as possible.

 

[Mottrex]

I really really really wish they had left in that original shot of the X-wings opening their wings. I remember thinking that was the coolest thing I had ever seen. As a 12 year old in '77 something like that would've never occurred to me. Wings splitting in half? WOW! That was even before I had ever seen an F14 Tomcat with moving wings! In the special edition they put so much motion of the ships into the shot, you can barely even tell they are opening. For a first time viewer it isn't even really noticable.

I need a rewatch..
I remember the chills of that We're heading into Battle scene with that iconic squeal as they opened !

 

[robn1]

But you can certainly watch 3D celluloid in Black and white..

The red and blue color tints used for 3D would not show on black and white TV.

To me cleaning up/ minimizing matte lines still falls under the category of restoration because it's a technical improvement. It's taking the existing material and making it look as good as possible.

This is where the nitpicking comes in, because some like me want the original effects unaltered. They are a product of their time and have historic value. The original King Kong could stand improvement but would it be proper to do so? I say no.

The only way such changes would be acceptable to me is if an original version is included. The differing audio tracks could be done the same way.

 

[Cephus]

As far as I'm concerned, you can clean it up to make it look like it did when it was released. The second you touch any of the content though, that crosses the line. One frame removed or added is not a restoration, it's an alteration.

 

[Ron]

Same here. Don't clean up the original effects. Keep everything as it was including the original audio mixes. By all means also offer a "cleaned up" Dolby 7.2 mix with "A New Hope" in the crawl version for anyone who prefers it.

 

[edge10]

As far as I'm concerned, you can clean it up to make it look like it did when it was released. The second you touch any of the content though, that crosses the line. One frame removed or added is not a restoration, it's an alteration.

Yep, beyond that is the slippery slope.

 

[Lightning]

I think getting rid of the matt lines in the space scenes (where they are super visible) is fine. It's what they were trying to do in '77. It's just a matter of matching the brightness/contrast. It would just take a tremendous amount of effort with trial and error to get it perfect with analog equipment. The boxes are way more distracting than an occasional glitchy lightsaber.

 

[Treadwell]

6. There were three mixes during the original release. 4-track Dolby stereo surround (70mm), 2-track Dolby stereo (35mm), and mono. "Close the blast doors", for example, is in the mono mix but not the stereo. All three should be provided as options on any 'original version" release (and have been in the case of the 4K77).