Tyrell could have outwitted Batty

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Vermithrax 4

Well-Known Member
I've always wondered why Dr. Tyrell didn't simply lead Roy Batty to believe that there was some experimental method they had been working on to extend a Replicant's four-year lifespan, or even a proven secret method. They would no doubt had to have put Batty and Pris through some sort of procedure that might anesthitize them. Once under all they would have to do is "retire" the two of them humanely. I mean, knowing his own life was at risk I wonder why he didn't proceed along those lines in an attempt to save himself. Not that the scene isn't powerfully written and performed as is. Just a thought.
 

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SmilingOtter

Master Member
Batty would probably have insisted on observing Tyrell perform the procedure on Pris. Or vice versa depending on which one would expire first. If the replicant died on the table, or ran down at the normal time, the other would destroy Tyrell.
 

SSgt Burton

Sr Member
But Tyrell told Batty the procedure would kill him as he had tried it already. Why would he tell him that? Why wouldn't he just perform the procedure silently knowing it would kill them? Why didn't he just alert the police when Batty showed up?

Maybe it is because he "loved" his creations and had no intentions of harming them at all. A father's love for their "misguided" child.


Kevin
 

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Jedi2016

Sr Member
Batty certainly wasn't stupid. As clearly demonstrated in the film, he had already thought of possible solutions, he just had no way of testing or implementing them.

My belief is that, once off the assembly line, a replicant's genetic structure can't be changed. Whatever they're "born" with is fixed, permanently. Rachael had no expiration date not due to any intervention, but because she was made with those specifications from the start. In other words, there was never a way for Batty, Pris, or any of them to live any longer than what they were made with.

I don't buy the "Tyrell is replicant" argument, and the only reason I even consider the "Deckard is replicant" theory is that Ridley himself said it.
 

GlazyUK

Active Member
I often wondered if Roy Batty was as he describes himself in this line "We're not computers, Sebastian, we're physical. " and he was a combat model like Bryant tells Deckard when he briefs him on the replicants, then how come Batty is so good at chess, and spots moves even JF Sebastian didn't spot when playing Tyrell, I'd assume JF would be a hell of a lot more intelligent than Batty ?!
 

CessnaDriver

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Tyrell probably has always lived a very protected life, he was taken by surprise. He is a genius, but his heart was probably pounding and stress was high to be playing life or death speed chess with Batty.
 

autoprops713

Well-Known Member
I think Tyrell was maybe thrown off just how "human" Batty really was. Perhaps he dropped his guard and Batty took things from there. :behave
 

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Vermithrax 4

Well-Known Member
All good responses.

And so now Tyrell is a replicant??? Jeez, why don't they just go ahead and suspect everyone of being one? I never bought the idea of Deckard being one, regardless of what Ridley Scott said, I honestly think he was just talking out of his ass. There's no evidence to support the idea of Deckard being a replicant. If he's a Bladerunner then he should have been designed as a combat model the same as Batty, but Deckard clearly lacked any sort of superhuman strength. He barely managed to jump between the two buildings where Batty jumped the distance with ease. And if he'd had combat model strength he should've been able to pull himself up from the edge. Also, having Deckard be a replicant really kills the impact of the scene at the end between him and Batty. Batty, in the last minutes of his life, is trying to make this human understand that he himself is just as sentient a being as Deckard, and Deckard, as a human who has been coldly killing replicants, is experiencing the revelation of that truth. Having one replicant attempt to convince another replicant of this fact makes no f'ing sense. Just my opinion, of course.
 

Jedi2016

Sr Member
Also, having Deckard be a replicant really kills the impact of the scene at the end between him and Batty. Batty, in the last minutes of his life, is trying to make this human understand that he himself is just as sentient a being as Deckard, and Deckard, as a human who has been coldly killing replicants, is experiencing the revelation of that truth. Having one replicant attempt to convince another replicant of this fact makes no f'ing sense. Just my opinion, of course.
That's pretty much the opinion of most people that don't like the replicant idea. It makes Batty into a fool, mistaking Deckard for human and effectively wasting the last few minutes of his life.
 

Flagg

Sr Member
I thought in the original shooting script Tyrell, or the one we see on screen, was a replicant? I thought it had something to do with the original one being sick and in a fridge while his copy was putting forth the good public image for him. Didn't they even film a scene with Batty killing the replicant tyrell and then taking the elevator to a freezer area where he killed the real Tyrell or am I remembering storyboards from The Making of Blade Runner?
 

JD

Master Member
Could use a big ol' spoiler warning in the title.

I'll give ya that the movie's been out for a million years and parts of it have been debated to death... but, an plot point like this really should have a less spoiler-ific title (and one that actually mentions the name of the movie involved).
 

Nexus6

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
...There's no evidence to support the idea of Deckard being a replicant. If he's a Bladerunner then he should have been designed as a combat model the same as Batty, but Deckard clearly lacked any sort of superhuman strength. He barely managed to jump between the two buildings where Batty jumped the distance with ease. And if he'd had combat model strength he should've been able to pull himself up from the edge.
Well, the 'Replicant Deckard' group (which includes me) will say that if you're going to have a replicant posing as a human cop, he would have to be 'B' or 'C' level strength (Batty & Leon were level 'A'), so he could blend in with the population. If the general public saw a cop going toe-to-toe with a humanoid bulldozer, it would be a dead give-away.

And FWIW, I don't care what "side" anyone's on. I can look at the film from a 'Human Deckard' perspective & it works just as well for me.

And to be honest, this particular plot debate makes me tired. *shrugs*

And here's a pretty picture ;):


As for your original topic question, I'd often considered the very same thing. I always assumed that Tyrell didn't even think about lying, & that in his arrogance, he thought he could "reason" his way out of the situation.
 
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Flagg

Sr Member
Could use a big ol' spoiler warning in the title.

I'll give ya that the movie's been out for a million years and parts of it have been debated to death... but, an plot point like this really should have a less spoiler-ific title (and one that actually mentions the name of the movie involved).
You're joking, right?
 

CessnaDriver

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Well, the 'Replicant Deckard' group (which includes me) will say that if you're going to have a replicant posing as a human cop, he would have to be 'B' or 'C' level strength (Batty & Leon were level 'A'), so he could blend in with the population. If the general public saw a cop going toe-to-toe with a humanoid bulldozer, it would be a dead give-away.

And FWIW, I don't care what "side" anyone's on. I can look at the film from a 'Human Deckard' perspective & it works just as well for me.

And to be honest, this particular plot debate makes me tired. *shrugs*

And here's a pretty picture ;):


As for your original topic question, I'd often considered the very same thing. I always assumed that Tyrell didn't even think about lying, & that in his arrogance, he thought he could "reason" his way out of the situation.
There are other threads on this forum with my views on Deckard as rep or not so I won't repeat my opinion, but bare in mind that Ford is on record as stating he missed his mark in that shot and that is why his eyes appeared red. It was a screw up, perhaps Scott took advantage of it later in editing, but the important thing to note is Ford was not instructed to be in a position for the effect to be captured by camera.
 

JediG60racer

Sr Member
I LOVE that cinematographers took the time to make shots with practical effects like this so long ago, and miss those days. Too much CGI now that doesn't look half as good as practical effects.
 

CessnaDriver

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I LOVE that cinematographers took the time to make shots with practical effects like this so long ago, and miss those days. Too much CGI now that doesn't look half as good as practical effects.

Hand made endeavors produce happy accidents sometimes.
Things turn out different then you planned, and sometimes
exceed what was being gone after totally by accident in unintentional ways.
Inability to meet over reaching plans limited buy budgets for instance
or technology, can force greater creativity in different directions which
again, create happy accidents or a path gone down that never would have been explored.

If I were in charge of films with heavy FX, I'd try to put in the process
steps that will keep things hands on in the practical FX world for a portion of the production to produce those unintentional discoveries that so often
give an effect a new and unique appearance.

CGI is still a hero as well, it makes possible what was impractical or not possible, fusion of the two is the best recipe I think.
 

Timmythekid

Sr Member
Tyrell's downfall is arrogance, and a feeling of intellectual superiority. The whole "smarter than God" Lucifer/Prometheus thing going on with "More human than human.". Tyrell lives in an exclusively and isolated intellectual world - what we know about his pusuits include theoretical bio-engineering, theoretical psychology, the massive scale econimics of his business, and chess. He was also exceedingly arrogant. I've always read it as he approached the whole encounter as a purely intellectual one, and just honestly couldn't imagine Batty getting violent when faced with the cold, logical reasoning Tyrell presented, because, well, what does it solve?
 

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