Tron Legacy: a philosophical approach

[YenChih Lin]

First: I am no pro-philosopher, there are certain better ones here on the RPF, who studied this - but I always liked to do with my best friend. I just recently thought about Legacy and it's really more than 3D, CG and FX, no matter what the critics want to tell us.

Second: it might briefly touch religion, I'll leave religion out as an open question to yourself to think about (for the MGL's sake).

Okaaay...
much has been written about movies and a lot of them have been overinterpreted, I hope, I won't do this while I'm listening to "Flynn Lives" (a great track to the one of the most powerful scene in TL). And even much more critics and reviews have been written in the last weeks about Legacy from pros and non-pros, from fans and non-fans. Not to mention from the RPF. It has been compared to Star Wars and The Matrix, which is unjustified - yes, maybe certain elements are similar to thise movies, but at the end of the day Tron and Legacy are unique to actual themes, that are today important and were ahead of it's time.

The questions to Tron was clearly stated by Lisberger about the implications of who owns information and how free they are and what responsibility we have to take (since the cablegate leak from wikipedia an interesting question...) - so I won't go into this further - all to see in the extras of the anniversary edition.

The questions to Legacy are mostly open, as the LOST screenwriters said in an interview here: Exclusive Geek Out: 'Tron: Legacy' Screenwriters Discuss the Mythology; Address Key Story Decisions - The Moviefone Blog But there are also those who are not directly asked, but hinted.

1. If Flynn is the creator of the Grid to make the perfect system, and the programs like Clu, Tron and Yori are the beings inhabiting, how perfect is this world compared to the concept of God, the universe and humans? Has God made this world as perfect as needed and left the rest imperfect to leave a free will of choice? Since a perfect world would lead to a tryanny of perfection and determination with no abilities to grow over it's "programming"?

2. If perfection can't be reached in a human sense, is the perfection in front of our eyes, how Flynn called the diversity of life itself that manifests in a "perfect" form?

3. Since Flynn said in Legacy that CLU can't grow over it's programming and only repurpose programs to his needs and can't create... Are we humans only "programs" that only can reshape our world with the tools we have or do we have the power to actually create something from nothing?

That been asked, I only can assume that the real legacy Flynn had left wasn't the Grid, the Isos, Encom or the programs - it's his son Sam.
When Clu asked why he sacrifices his ID disc, his answer was he's my son.

Like a program, our DNA is the main template for our outer appearance and in partial ways our behaviour and manner. The person you represent is an "upgraded program version" of your father and mother, as well as your son or daughter is an upgraded version of you - some personality traits are shared and bequeathed to the next generation. Flynn lives, in a certain sense in his son further on, shown in the flashbacks of Sam when he was 7-8 years old. So, what do you leave as a legacy and what really important legacy do you want to be remembered for, would be the appropiated questions to this movie.

While The Matrix dealt with the conception of reality, Legacy deals with the conception of the human conditions, reality and beliefs.
Our human belief system comes with the conception of a soul (software) in one or another way, "trapped" in a material body, the hardware. The universe is the grid, where all happens. Like Shakespear put it: "All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players: They have their exits and their entrances; And one man in his time plays many parts..."
And when we die, do we reenter the real world? I mean, lots of near death experiencers said seeing the light tunnel, which is similar to the portal, when Sam looked up...

Thank you for reading and please contribute, I'm very curious about your insights! :thumbsup

 

[YenChih Lin]

No one want to philosophy with me?

 

[CTF]

"The Dude is not in..."

 

[YenChih Lin]

 

[moffeaton]

I just... don't care to go so in depth with Tron, lol. It's a fun movie, but it's not like we're talking Nitzsche, here. And even then, booooring.

My personal interest runs more toward the visual... or the stylistic choices. I think you might find that most people here watch a movie to escape, be inspired creatively, or pass the time... not philosophize.

 

[Chronos]

Great insights! :thumbsup

 

[nickytea]

3. Since Flynn said in Legacy that CLU can't grow over it's programming and only repurpose programs to his needs and can't create... Are we humans only "programs" that only can reshape our world with the tools we have or do we have the power to actually create something from nothing?

You seem to be interpreting Legacy through a specific religious lens, most obvious in the piece I've quoted above. I think you may yield more interpretively rich results if you step away from that a bit.

While the concept of God/man can be seen in the relationship of Kevin and Clu, I prefer to approach that relationship more broadly in terms of Creator/Creation. This opens up an entire field of possibilities. In one sense, the idea of Kevin confronting a frozen, younger, less learned version of hismelf and having to reconcile the error of his way.

In another way, you can view Clu as an alternate Sam ... a second son. The embodiment of his obsessive quest for perfection that made him ignore the perfect son that grew without him their. The idea that our singular act of creation is limited but the communal act of growth and evolution is infinite.

Personally, I prefer to interpret this relationship in terms of Sam's dual images of the father that left him ... the huge question mark looming over his life, preventing him from becoming a whole person. The first scene with Clu is particularly evocative, when he says something to the effect of "Somehow I expected more." What kind of man would his father have been? Disappointed in him?

The negatives embody Clu, while the optimism and warmth embodies Kevin, who Sam ultimately reconciles his memory of by taking back the company. Without Kevin, our world suffers the same fate the Grid suffers without him. Encom under greedy rule is the same as Clu's reign.

Father and Son apart, both world's suffer. Reconciled, they are made peaceful and full of wonder.

... And we haven't even started talking about Quorra yet. :lol

I agree with you that this is one of the most philosophically provocative films since the Matrix movies. Rich symbols rife with timeless metaphor. Mythic, really.

 

[YenChih Lin]

Yes, I agree totally - maybe I was hampered in my train of thoughts, I had to head to my work and leaving the unfinished written part. Coming back and pick up the left part wasn't ideal. Creator and creation is more appropiated term.

So generally, is the family also important factor to shape our personality or if we leave one parental part out, are we becoming someone else? What makes a whole person? The enviroment and the conditions as well as the experience we made or the parents, who plays a big part in our life? Or do we ultimately decide for ourself, what person we want to be?

To Quorra: as many sites said, she's the heart of the two, Sam and Kevin, as one said her name is a little changed italian word for heart "cuore". She is the surrogate daughter of Kevin. She bridged the time-gap of the two and she was also the one, who brought them together. But she is also the curious part, who wanted more and wanted to know, what the life of a User is. She never saw the sun, the moon, the stars, a bird, a tree or and animal, such things doesn't exist on the grid, while it can be simulated.

But she's also the miracle, Kevin spoke of that can change the world - is she a perfect being with a digital to "analog" DNA, what knowledge does she hold inside her genetic coding? How does her presence can shape the aspect of life itself, since she seems to represent the mainfestation of life itself, evolving from the sea of simulation as the last of the Isos...

You seem to be interpreting Legacy through a specific religious lens, most obvious in the piece I've quoted above. I think you may yield more interpretively rich results if you step away from that a bit.

While the concept of God/man can be seen in the relationship of Kevin and Clu, I prefer to approach that relationship more broadly in terms of Creator/Creation. This opens up an entire field of possibilities. In one sense, the idea of Kevin confronting a frozen, younger, less learned version of hismelf and having to reconcile the error of his way.

In another way, you can view Clu as an alternate Sam ... a second son. The embodiment of his obsessive quest for perfection that made him ignore the perfect son that grew without him their. The idea that our singular act of creation is limited but the communal act of growth and evolution is infinite.

Personally, I prefer to interpret this relationship in terms of Sam's dual images of the father that left him ... the huge question mark looming over his life, preventing him from becoming a whole person. The first scene with Clu is particularly evocative, when he says something to the effect of "Somehow I expected more." What kind of man would his father have been? Disappointed in him?

The negatives embody Clu, while the optimism and warmth embodies Kevin, who Sam ultimately reconciles his memory of by taking back the company. Without Kevin, our world suffers the same fate the Grid suffers without him. Encom under greedy rule is the same as Clu's reign.

Father and Son apart, both world's suffer. Reconciled, they are made peaceful and full of wonder.

... And we haven't even started talking about Quorra yet. :lol

I agree with you that this is one of the most philosophically provocative films since the Matrix movies. Rich symbols rife with timeless metaphor. Mythic, really.

 

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[YenChih Lin]

Hmmm, sorry I haven't seen scott pilgrim vs the world....

 

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[YenChih Lin]

When you do you can consider it?

Ok how about this,
In the first Tron the sky was black because that was just the way video games were back then.
So in 2010 why isn't the Tron environment sky and grass etc, like Avavtar?

I think it's just like that in the Tron universe.

Man vs his responsibilities and Man vs his Idealisim.

But how much idealism and at what cost should it realized? Isn't creating an utopia also a form of tyranny?

 

[morrris99]

One thing about this movie popped up...If Flynn could "fix" Quorra digitally when she was hurt by just going through her programming, couldn't he do the same with other people brought into the Tron world? We didn't see him looking at Sam's DNA, but they didn't say you "couldn't" do that. I thought that would answer the "medicine" question, as I guess you could cure cancer, aids, everything just by rewriting and fixing a person's code. Apparently, all you have to look for is red colored bits. But, it isn't real anyways, so I left the theater and went back into the real world.

 

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