TLJ, Han Solo's Lucky Sabacc Dice

Discussion in 'Star Wars Costumes and Props' started by zapwizard, Dec 23, 2017.

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  1. zapwizard

    zapwizard Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    -----------------------

    Visit the Project Run thread for details on ordering


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    After seeing The Last Jedi, I just knew what my first project was going to be. Han Solo's Lucky Sabacc Dice. These are seen hanging in the cockpit of the Millennium Falcon. They are shown in no less than three separate scenes in the movie.

    [​IMG]
    (Rendering)

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    Mild spoiler:
    They are held by Luke, Leia and Kylo Ren.
    There is of course much more to say about these dice in the Star Wars Lore, but it would be too much of a spoiler at this point.

    Capture, Luke and Dice.jpg
    Capture, Luke Holding Dice.jpg
    Capture, Leia Holding Dice.jpg
    Capture, Kylo Holding Dice.jpg

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    Han's Dice-vector.jpg

    I carefully compared all the images that I could find and extracted the sides of the dice. Looking at the hands it is held in, the dice seem to be standard 16mm dice. Considering that the Force Awakens dice were regular "Earth" dice with dots instead of symbols; I bet the original prop was just some common dice painted brass or gold. These "Earth" dice even made into the Visual Dictionary and on Wookieepedia.

    In The Last Jedi they updated the dice with some nicer symbols. You look closely you can see that the symbols even make some sense. The "i" symbol is one, the "split circle" is two, and the rest of the symbols work off of how many sides each icon has.

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    Hazard Toss Dice.jpg

    The sixth symbol was not very visible in the film. However there are leaked images of TLJ Visual Dictionary out there, and in it you can see some "Hazard Toss Dice" with some familiar symbols on them. This unlocked the final six symbol and I could get to work designing a 3D printed version. I will make these available on my Shapeways store, see the Project Runs link at the end of this post.

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    Han's Dice-Sketch.jpg

    First I drew the symbols in CorelDraw over the cropped screen captures. I then had to carefully figure out which symbol went where, and in what orientation compare to the surrounding symbols. Once I had that, I exported them into SolidEdge to convert them into a proper CAD file.

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    Han's Dice-Loop.jpg

    I added a built-in chain loop. A screw-in loop would be easier to break. I added rounds to all of the corners, as this will make it closer to the smooth nature of the dice in the movie. The actual movie dice is quite a bit rougher in the shape of the symbols and aged, but that can be done by hand if needed.

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I created some photo-real renderings. Again these are NOT photographs. I hope to have the actual part in a few weeks.
    I have also created a pendant, and single game-ready die version.

    This was a fun one-day design. I won't be releasing the CAD files until the Bluray release, in case I missed some detail.

    Visit the Project Run thread for details on ordering

    -
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
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  2. ALLEY

    ALLEY Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I am going to assume that these dice will be depicted in the "Han Solo" movie; probably in the game in which he won the Falcon.
     
  3. TB-7021

    TB-7021 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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  4. zapwizard

    zapwizard Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    TB-7021 if you going to put the design on Thingiverse I might as well do so too.

    Here is the game-ready dice version.

    I am using the CC, Attribution, Non-commercial licence to protect at least against some of the eBay/Etsy vampires. If your going to use CC Attribution, perhaps you should credit the source as per the licence.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2018
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  5. OBI WAN KEN0B1

    OBI WAN KEN0B1 Well-Known Member

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    Both sets of dice look great thanks for sharing. I know what i am going to be printing when i get home.
     
  6. zapwizard

    zapwizard Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I updated the dice design to be much closer to the movie.
    Modeling dice in a vertex editor is actually pretty easy, but modeling them in a parametric program is hard. Getting just the right corners required a lot of experimentation.

    I also added more finishes to the end product.

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. zapwizard

    zapwizard Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I added the 19mm size, as well as raw brass. For those wanting Casino sized dice, or want to polish and plate the dice themselves.
     
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  8. zapwizard

    zapwizard Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    [​IMG]

    So my prototype has arrived! The prototype, as the current version has more accurately rounded corners.

    These are the 16mm size, and I have to say that I am happy with the size. I also have a 19mm prototype on the way in a plastic just to see the difference in size.

    I had the prototype printed in polished brass. And man are the dice beautiful. They are also heavy. The brass has not started to tarnish yet, and it is as bright as the 18K gold chain I have attached.
    (The chain I ordered is here: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M2622UP)

    Click on any of the images to go to the projects run page.

    More photos:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
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  9. Jacks1411

    Jacks1411 New Member

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    These look great! Could you possibly share the files for the ones with the loops would love to get some!
     
  10. zapwizard

    zapwizard Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Jacks1411: Sorry, I will not share the files for the high quality version. I have already seen some people 3D printing low-quality, spray-painted copies and selling them.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2018
  11. Torron

    Torron Active Member

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    You did such a great job with them, i hope i’ll be able to print them sometimes!
    Btw. here’s a video from the star wars show and they talk about the dice at 5:20. There are some good shots of them :)
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=725s&v=p09c0MXDxto
     
  12. zapwizard

    zapwizard Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    @Torron, thanks for the link. They really did get some good shots in there. I need to make some tweaks to things which I was assuming was just a camera angle distorting the icons. (Time for Rev 3)
     
  13. Torron

    Torron Active Member

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    You’re welcome. I immediately thought of this thread when i saw the dice there


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  14. zapwizard

    zapwizard Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    [​IMG]

    Okay, I have updated the design with the tweaks from the higher-res images.
    The render above is a side by side comparison of the in-movie to my replica. The files have been updated on Shapeways, but it will take me some time to redo all the various material renderings. You can look at the Shapways rendering in 3D however if you want to see the updates. Click on the image above for the sales link.
     
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  15. zapwizard

    zapwizard Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Here are some updated renderings of the newest design.

    [​IMG]

    Rev 3 Changes:
    -Corner roundness tweaked again.
    -"Six" icon updated with slightly twisted center diamond.
    -"Five" icon updated with wider base and smaller triangle
    -"One" icon updated with wider base then top.
    -"Three" icon changed from rounded end to pointed end.
    -All icons are 0.5mm deeper.

    [​IMG]

    This image shows the 16mm (standard dice) compared to the 19mm (Casio dice)
    After holding the prototype in my hand, I am very happy with the 16mm size. Also the 19mm size gets quite a bit more expensive due to the much larger amount of material required to cast it.


    [​IMG]

    It takes a lot of time to re-generate all the different renderings on each design change. The dice com in two sizes, eleven finishes, and three variants.
     
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  16. zapwizard

    zapwizard Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Today I received the 19mm size in Polished Metallic Plastic. Note these are the Rev 2 design. So they are less accurate to the movie than the current Rev 3 design.

    But they show the look of the material, as well as the size in my hand. After holding both, I feel that the actual movie dice may be not be a standard die size. They may be somewhere between 16 and 19mm.

    [​IMG]
    Rev 2 in Polished Metallic Plastic

    [​IMG]
    Rev 2 in Polished Metallic Plastic

    [​IMG]
    Rev 1 in Polished Brass

    [​IMG]
    Dice in movie
     
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  17. ummharrybutler

    ummharrybutler New Member

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    Looks really good, working on my own currently! How did you go about figuring the depth of the designs? I've done all my own designs using reference images from that youtube video, only thing I can't seem to get is the depth currently at 2mm. Going to cast them in brass using a lost wax method.
     
  18. zapwizard

    zapwizard Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I just did the depth based on what I felt matched the movie. I did renderings with multiple depths. I decided on 1.5mm but 2mm probably would look fine also.

    The Shapeways brass and gold parts are done in wax then cast traditionally, and finally hand polished. (And plated if needed) So your own build should come out great.

    The steel and plastic materials are cheaper, but have a tougher surface. They are directly laser sintered metal.

    This is really a great project for anyone wanting to make their first prop. Heck you could make them by cutting a dremeling a block of brass by hand.
     
  19. ummharrybutler

    ummharrybutler New Member

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    This is my first attempt ever at a replica prop so thank you for the advice!

    I think I will go with 2mm depth to hopefully get a bit more detail when casting. Thought about using the Dremel but I don't know how steady my hands are.
     
  20. Torron

    Torron Active Member

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    Hey, there's yet another video from the Star Wars Show where they show the dice stored in the Lucasfilm archives.

    I noticed two differences between your prop and the original:
    I think they show one of the sides in a clearer view, I believe it's the “five” symbol. You have it with a cut-in triangle in the main base, but on these screenshots, it seems flat.
    The second is the “one” symbol. It appears that it isn't narrowing as you have it but rather straight.

    Snímek obrazovky (552).png Snímek obrazovky (551).png

    Take a look for yourself ;)
     
  21. zapwizard

    zapwizard Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I knew as soon as my subscription notification dinged that someone was posting this video. (Which I have been examining closely)

    I know she is using white gloves, but I she is now holding the film used hero prop.

    There are two details that convince me of this:

    1: The corners are too sharp. When compared to this film shot, the corner radius doesn't match. I am specifically talking about where three corners meet, not the edges. What she is holding has corners closer to my Rev 1 design.

    2: The space between the two portions of the "One" symbol isn't large enough. When comparing against this reference image.

    However, this video may reveal a few things about the hero prop. I made the "one" symbol based on the image linked just above. In that image there is a slight taper on the one symbol. But this may be due to some pillow distortion, perhaps from a macro lens. But lets assume the one shown in the Youtube video is a good symbol. So I will have a Rev 4 to make.

    Regarding the "five" symbol, I know for sure that it doesn't have a flat cut between the small triangle and the rest. This is from another reference images. I think that YouTube compression, combined with the slight round on that edge screwed up that detail. I do think however that the base edge on the "five" symbol needs to be a bit wider than I have now.

    I think that perhaps distortion also caused the edges to look a bit more rounded than what you see in the the Feb 7th video. I believe my Rev 3 corners are closer to the hero prop. I do however plan on altering those two symbols a bit.

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    What I find interesting is that the aging on the dice in the new video look almost identical to the aging I am seeing on my brass dice, which have been hanging in my car the past few weeks. (As compared to the attached bright gold chain) I wonder if they even gold plated the original prop, or just made it in Brass. Freshly polished brass can be hard to distinguish from gold.

    FYI, the above reference were taken from the Star Wars: The Last Jedi Secrets Explained.)
     
  22. SigsegV

    SigsegV Active Member

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    In my screenshot I can see the angled cut-out on that symbol:
    dice.png

    Also, if these aren't a hero prop from TLJ, couldn't they potentially be one from Solo?
     
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  23. zapwizard

    zapwizard Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    A bit over a month ago I ordered my Rev 3 design in Gold Steel and in 14K gold plated.
    It takes two weeks for the cast parts to get made. I didn't pay for ground shipping, so my parts took two days to get from New York to Austin, and then nine days to get across town to my house. (Seriously pay the extra bucks to keep your parts away from Snail mail)

    The gold steel part turned out as expected. This material is about half the cost of the cast metal, but also shows print lines and a pitted surface.

    My new "keepsake" 14K parts however were a disaster. Shapeways mixed up my dice design with someone else's and I got their less accurate design instead. Very frustrating. Ya, now I need to wait at least two more weeks before I get my next build. Oh well, I need to make two two icon tweaks for Rev 4 anyways. Edit: Rev 4 is now live. The taper was removed from the "i" icon, and a few others were tweaked a small amount.

    [​IMG]
    My original cast brass parts after a month of aging. They have been hanging from my rear view mirror. (Rev 1 design)

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    [​IMG]
    Polished Gold Steel shown. This material have some visible print lines, as well as a pitted surface. (Rev 3 design)

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    [​IMG]
    Two dice shown in Premium Polished White Plastic. This material behaves the most similar to common dice. It will however pick up oils from your skin. It can be sealed with an acrylic clear coat. (Rev 3 design)
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
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  24. wookieonsie

    wookieonsie New Member

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  25. zapwizard

    zapwizard Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The chain you linked to is too thin (1.8mm) You need something closer to 3 or 4mm. The one you linked to also has oval links.

    The chain I used is about as cheap as I could find without ordering in bulk
    , but it is also screen accurate. The style is called: "Blecher chain" It has round rings for links, with each link also being rounded. (Toroidal in shape)

    I have found a few on eBay for cheap, but I just don't trust eBay sellers with single line descriptions.

    I used a 17cm length.. I measured this by first scaling a screenshot until the dice were 16mm in the image. Then measuring the length of the chain by drawing segments on top of the chain. Then I unfolded the segments and arrived at 17cm. Anywhere between 17cm and 20cm will probably work fine.

    Capture, Dice-Chain Length.jpg
     
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  26. zapwizard

    zapwizard Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Here are photos of the final parts, (Rev 4)

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  27. Galactican

    Galactican Well-Known Member

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    This looks so awesome! I saw the movie last week and wished I had such a nice dice set. Since I love paper models I got inspired by your work and used your dice as a base for a paper model of it:

    i49971bu33b4.jpg

    i49972b4n9cj.jpg

    i49973b50yvv.jpg

    Thank you and keep up the great work! :)
     
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  28. zapwizard

    zapwizard Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Nice papercraft version. My tip there is to over-print your colors, so when you cut them out you end up with less white spaces.
     
  29. Great_Bizarro

    Great_Bizarro Sr Member

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    Nice work those came out great. Printing a set in abs to get my settings right then going to try brass next.
    Thanks for the files!
     
  30. scide

    scide Jr Member

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    How durable are these - expecially the bracket holding the chain, as brass usually is quite soft?
    I love your detailed design and want these for my car really bad, but it seems shapeways pricing doesn't want me to... :D


    Is there a real world comparison between these and the one zenix made and is now selling on etsy?
    Price difference is nearly factor 5... :(
     
  31. zapwizard

    zapwizard Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    42363540282_e66bb42312_c.jpg

    Here is an image of how the dice age if you select "Natural Brass". The dice on the left are 14K gold plated, and are three months old.
    scide:
    The built-in closed loop is stronger than any bent hook. I have had my original set hanging in the car for all this time. They swing and bounce around quite a bit with no sign of wear in the loop. (And the original set has a thinner loop than the model I sell now) If the loop ever were to break, you could drill a hole for a loop to pass through, or install a tiny threaded brass loop. (The original movie dice use a off-the-shelf hooked brass loop)

    I have nothing against Zenix's build. Order whichever you please, just don't order in-accurate ripoffs from overseas.

    Here are the differences that I can spot (Looking at the zinc model):
    1: My dice are 16mm in size, which is the size of most common game dice. His zinc dice are 14.5mm, so a bit too small in my mind. (His steel dice are 16.5mm.)
    2: His corners are rounded with the equal radii on all corners around. Where I use a variable radius to make my dice look more like the movie used dice. This difference is subtle, but visible in the image above were I used constant radius on the set on the right, and variable on the left.
    3: His six sided icon has a the diamond shape in the middle touching the sides of the icon. Mine don't. (More accurate)
    4: His five sided icon is too wide, with corners a bit too sharp.
    5: His four sided icon has the center portion a bit to small and offset for my taste.
    6: The actual depth of the icons are different. Deeper on the zinc dice, and shallower on the steel dice.

    Shapeways is a bit expensive, but their finish quality and polishing are both amazing.
    I could order these much cheaper from an overseas supplier (Cast in my design), but I would have to order hundreds in a single run. I am not sure there is that much demand for these anymore.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2018
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  32. scide

    scide Jr Member

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    Wow, @zapwizard!
    Big thanks for this detailed reply! I like these sabacc dice even more now. :cool
    In the end I'll probably go for zenix' version, as spending this much on a product I did not build myself does not really match my prop collecting style - especially as I have a quite expensive Graflex chassis in the making... Hope you understand.





    Off topic concerning my Graflex build:

    As you seem quite familiar with ordering brass parts on shapeways, can you say something about its dimensional accuracy?
    Did you do anything to reduce shrinkage during the casting process or is the finished part of comparable size to a plastic test print?
    I am planning with several individual parts which have to match each other in size to get them assembled correctly...

    My design does contain a few etchings with similar thickness to the ones in your Rose Medallion. What depth did you use for the channels here?
    Also 0.5mm? Ever tried the minimum spec of 0.4mm width or had problem with etchings not visible after the casting process?

    Thanks in advance! Getting some real world insights here would help a lot! :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2018
  33. zapwizard

    zapwizard Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Anything cast will have some shrinkage. In the case of my dice it was just 0.1mm off from the 16mm original dimension. And that may have been due to polishing. I did not up-size the model before ordering.

    Shapeways material page states:
    They make the cast parts by 3D printing a very accurate model in cast wax, then doing lost-wax casting just like any jeweler would do.

    On the Rose Medallion I used 1mm deep channels. The Rose Medallion and Dice are the first parts I have printed in brass. I just know the rules of casting from previous professional projects I have done.

    Shapeways has their own forums, and lots of thread talking about casting accuracy.
     
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  34. BipeFlyer

    BipeFlyer Active Member

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    Thanks for sharing these, Zapwizard. I got your STL files off of Thingiverse and scaled them down to make a necklace for my daughter. [​IMG]

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
     
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  35. Torron

    Torron Active Member

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    eff283a132a4d3a71c8762ca4575f805.jpg

    I just discovered this image on Wookieepedia. It’s at the "Spike die" page. I guess you can just compare it to your recreation.
     
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