Thoughts on Studio Scale Elitism Disease (and treatment options)
- Thread starter moffeaton
- Start date
All those years of dramatic PMs to Art really paid off, whew!!
Jason knows I love him, but that is just never going to happen.lol:lol
Your right I had two girly wine coolers on my Bday and I was out like Mr.T Lol, I pitty the fool who don't like a good scratchbuild!You better go have a Malta you know you can't drink!
robn1
Master Member
I don't think sub divisions are needed, everything seems to work just fine as it is.
If you want elitism go back in time about 30 years in the scale modeling world. Mainly military modelers, aircraft, armor and ships, but some car guys too, would look down their noses at sci-fi builders calling the work toys. The subjects don't really exist, so they weren't real models. That's what I used to deal with as a kid, trying to gain at least some acceptance from others for what I was into. Thankfully there is none of that here.
I haven't seen any elitism here, everyone seems to be very accepting of everyone else's work regardless of subject, scale etc. Any squabbles seem to be more personality driven or related to deals gone bad, and actually pretty tame compared to other forums.
If you want elitism go back in time about 30 years in the scale modeling world. Mainly military modelers, aircraft, armor and ships, but some car guys too, would look down their noses at sci-fi builders calling the work toys. The subjects don't really exist, so they weren't real models. That's what I used to deal with as a kid, trying to gain at least some acceptance from others for what I was into. Thankfully there is none of that here.
JMChladek
Sr Member
What do you mean 30 years ago? I still run into that crap from time to time. Sure, it can be "good natured" ribbing from a fellow club member or something a bit more hostile at a show. But it still happens. Usually I can pull in enough show hardware to command respect from most of my fellow club members and from time to time, I do build a "regular" aircraft model to show them that yes, I CAN build the stuff that looks like a miniature version of the real thing found in a driveway or on a flightline.
And I've also seen the crap that goes on between car modelers who think they are getting slighted by aircraft guys, armor guys who don't like to have their stuff called "targets," Luftwaffe 46 builders who don't like it when something that was at best a design sketch gets stuck in a SF category and SF guys who complain that said Luftwaffe 46 model gets stuck in said category and beats out their Enterprise or X-Wing model.
Now, here is one thing I don't quite get about those who don't like it when studio scale "kits" are in the same grouping as the scratchbuilds. Where do you draw the line with a "kit" that was made with the original molds? Okay, yes there are the one off models that are built from the greeblie bits, such as the 5 foot and 32 inch Millennium Falcon models, plus the Star Destroyers. But then you've got the pyro X-Wings, certain parts of hero X-wings, the Colonial Vipers (many of the hero ones as I recall were made from parts casted in a common mold) and the Buck Rogers Ranger 3 which was also done with a common mold (two models built for BR's pilot, plus the red shuttle from Galactica and the Searcher shuttle from season 2, all unique but done from molds off of a same master). Most of the Trek studio models done during the TNG, DS9 and early Voyager years were built entirely from castings from a master.
Then you've got some models that likely had several of their greeblies casted from molds since the studio considered it more cost effective to make those parts from resin for detail use (a specific repeating pattern for instance) as opposed to scrounging all of one type of plastic donor kit. Granted they didn't have that ability in the 1960s when Derrek Meddings was doing stuff to blow up on the Gerry Anderson shows, but they did end up going to Airfix to have them pop just the parts trees they needed of a few kits that are VERY tough to find these days (even for modelers that do look for them).
The way I am seeing this getting argued by some is a "studio replica" has to be 100% scratchbuilt, even if many examples of the original were put together from parts taken from a mold pulled off of a scratchbuilt master. So, does that mean the "replica" builder now has to recreate a master, cast a mold and THEN make the model from that mold for the replica to have the pedigree? And if the guy who is willing to do that sells some "kits" of his parts to help make back some money on his investment, blammo, you are now back to square one. Or does the "kit" that the next guy builds no longer qualify as the "studio replica" even if he might have built it exactly the same as the original modeler because he didn't go through the work of creating his own scratchbuilt master and cast his own parts?
:facepalm :confused :eek
robn1
Master Member
My last local IPMS meeting was around '84 so I've been out of the loop. But I was under the impression that things have mellowed since then, sad if it's still that bad
So.... prefixes.
I am looking at:
-scratch build
-kit build
any others?
I am looking at:
-scratch build
-kit build
any others?
I agree. :thumbsup
I'm not seeing anything in the modeling forums that would suggest that they need to be separated anymore than they already are. If there is elitism, it is being done by very few, and it is not noticeable by reading the threads (my opinion) on both of the modeling forums here at the RPF. I say don't feed the few trolls that are here; give them an inch and they will take a mile.
Perhaps a mod familiar with both of the modeling forums is needed here...as some have suggested. Personally, I would take that route before making any changes to these two forums. These two forums have been here for awhile without rocking the boat...why change them now?
Aurora
Well-Known Member
Elitist will always be hear to stay as long as people have an option. All ‘elitism’ is just the expression of their preference on what think better or worse.
Now hear me out, i know i may have lost a few of you.
As a valet i see this all the time in what people think which car is better or worse. They become an elitist because their car is better then other, even if they have never driven one (some might have most don’t). It is just an option they hold nothing more. Sure some might some rude comments but that is more down to the character level not down to which is better. For example, one of the major groups are Ford vs Chevy owners, both think one car is better then others. This has been a heated battle been going on for a very long time (remember the super bowl commercial between these two?) and will not go away. I see nothing wrong with it can spire good competition to form a better product in the end. People try to continently try to prove which is better through races, endurance, and extreme conditions and many more. Sure you get some bragging rights for a year but have to prove your self again and again. You cant do it once an say your the best.
I see this debate no difference to the cars example above, you will never win which is better. A valet can not even make up people mind on which car brand is better an they get to drive every type day in and day out. But every one has their reason to choose which car brand is better or which method is better to make models. Both will yield in a great results it is just how they want to get their and what they find more important.
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It doesnt need any prefixes, its fine as it is, unless your one who REALLY love to look down on the new guys and those who maybe cant afford the multiple donors to build a scratch.
lee
137th Gebirg
Well-Known Member
There are at least two types of kits, though - garage kit and commercial production kit. The former, some would argue, affords more variety in what's available than commercially available "licensed" products, which oftentimes aren't as accurate due to budget constraints, and also could be argued don't take as much skill to build. I certainly know this not to be the case, as I have done many of both types, but kits do definitely have subsets. Scratch-built, however, is scratch-built. Period. Never done one myself, but I have mad respect for those who have. I suppose I could do one if I had the time and money, but alas...
While we're at it, we could also include paper-craft and wood kits with that too!
While we're at it, we could also include paper-craft and wood kits with that too!
OK, here is a good one, who, please do tell, is the guy that moderates whether a GK, with a TON, of scratchbuilt mods, lets say like Jasons Escape pod, into the kit, of scratch forum?
That id like to see, the idea falls flat on its ugly face everytime, what, are we going to have.
Scratchbuilt.
Kit.
Kits and 30% scratchbuilt.
Scratchbuilt, but contains resin donor multiples.
Kits and 74.7% scratchbuilt............get my point :rolleyes.
If you know nothing about the subject Art, best to leave it alone eh?
lee
That id like to see, the idea falls flat on its ugly face everytime, what, are we going to have.
Scratchbuilt.
Kit.
Kits and 30% scratchbuilt.
Scratchbuilt, but contains resin donor multiples.
Kits and 74.7% scratchbuilt............get my point :rolleyes.
If you know nothing about the subject Art, best to leave it alone eh?
lee
It´s not about creating subforums, but developing a somewhat logical system for labeling threads for sorting, similar to what is done in the Junkyard with FS/NP/WTB etc.
JMChladek
Sr Member
My last local IPMS meeting was around '84 so I've been out of the loop. But I was under the impression that things have mellowed since then, sad if it's still that bad
Well, it isn't what it once was I'll grant you that. Usually such things these days are low level grumblings, but I do hear them. A lot of it is fully dependant on the club that one might be a member of. Thankfully my local clubs are pretty level headed with a good mix of modelers that do most everything. But, sometimes a personal bias rears its ugly head from time to time. In my club, we made a conscious decision a long time ago to try and limit that by adopting a policy of constructive critiquing. So if a newcomer comes with a model, nobody is going to right away jump on it and say "this is wrong, the paintjob is inaccurate, the decals are silvered..." to tear it apart. Instead, if the newcomer wants advice, then the critique begins and it starts with what was done right and goes from the standpoint of what needs improvement as opposed to what is wrong. The system has worked rather well I would say.
All the studio scale section needs is less none studio scale threads.
What if we do something that doesn't fit into a prefix??? If this is the case then just decide on the prefix outside of the forum and remove all threads that dont suit, then just mod it accordingly. Job done.
What if we do something that doesn't fit into a prefix??? If this is the case then just decide on the prefix outside of the forum and remove all threads that dont suit, then just mod it accordingly. Job done.
Better readability, people could better search for what interests them, i.e. not accidentally click on a thread that might make them want to gouge their eyes out because it is not up to their standards
So we´re back to square one in the discussion?
I think my brain started to hurt a bit at this point ... :lol
The local meetings here were never too bad but most everything was cars even at the show/swap meet they put together. I felt a bit out of the loop as a scifi builder. I never pay attention to one group being a snob to another. To me it's different difficulty levels: you start in general modeling and if you want work your way up to scratch building and then studio scale. Just like going to school.
I'm not sure whats going on, when was it decided that prefix is a solution, who created the problem and demanded change?
Who is complaining about the studio scale forum?
Jason started this thread on a general attitude to whats what and why but there hasn't been any examples of who and why yet. So its left open to debate the most recent reasons to bring this thread to the forum.
its all a bit bizarre, it seems prefixing is only there to pander to a few people that must have not a lot to do outside of the boards if it burns that much to see sub studio scale threads in a studio scale forum?
Not sure where this is going but it feels dark?
If I don't like a thread I just don't go to it or post in it. If it truly is in the wrong place usually a mod is there to move it anyway!!!!!
Whats changed and why? I see maybe 3 people liking prefixing, how many members are there that visit and post regularly?
In the junkyard it works, this is because of the high volume of threads (sales), you can be on page 10 in an hour on any give day.
Most popular threads in SS stay on page one for months and if they dont, who cares use the search button.
Most of my threads have an alternate title with no real description (sometimes) of the subject other than the model depicted in the thread.........its in the studio scale forum, I dont need to say its studio scale do I? Or do I?
There are some none studio scale thread in here, thats a fact but I bet you've had maybe one or two people moan at best. I dont moan cos life is too short?
If I don't want a resin build in a thread I created about scratch building thats my choice, it doesn't mean I'm banging on resin builders or resin, my lungs are full of the stuff and I've booked a few more appointments with doctor death again soon. I just dont want my thread cluttered with info that bares no relevance to a scratch build where a group of members over time will come together to try and create these builds. Its new ground aside from 2 people that have been there already (lasse and Rolando)
Building a resin kit isn't new ground and doesn't need to be in a thread about scratch building using plastic as a structure and all original donor parts, or even cast donor parts or even wrong donor parts or not enough donor parts.
The chances of some of these Mine included of looking worse than the kit version when completed is quite high, its going to be tough to build em. Its not about elitism its about common sense. other wise why not just have one thread in studio scale and everything goes in that one thread, now if thats what people want, ACE.
My threads not dead, "big things come from small beginnings"
Just so you all know, I'm trying to give up smoking and am a bit edgy at the mo :eek
Who is complaining about the studio scale forum?
Jason started this thread on a general attitude to whats what and why but there hasn't been any examples of who and why yet. So its left open to debate the most recent reasons to bring this thread to the forum.
its all a bit bizarre, it seems prefixing is only there to pander to a few people that must have not a lot to do outside of the boards if it burns that much to see sub studio scale threads in a studio scale forum?
Not sure where this is going but it feels dark?
If I don't like a thread I just don't go to it or post in it. If it truly is in the wrong place usually a mod is there to move it anyway!!!!!
Whats changed and why? I see maybe 3 people liking prefixing, how many members are there that visit and post regularly?
In the junkyard it works, this is because of the high volume of threads (sales), you can be on page 10 in an hour on any give day.
Most popular threads in SS stay on page one for months and if they dont, who cares use the search button.
Most of my threads have an alternate title with no real description (sometimes) of the subject other than the model depicted in the thread.........its in the studio scale forum, I dont need to say its studio scale do I? Or do I?
There are some none studio scale thread in here, thats a fact but I bet you've had maybe one or two people moan at best. I dont moan cos life is too short?
If I don't want a resin build in a thread I created about scratch building thats my choice, it doesn't mean I'm banging on resin builders or resin, my lungs are full of the stuff and I've booked a few more appointments with doctor death again soon. I just dont want my thread cluttered with info that bares no relevance to a scratch build where a group of members over time will come together to try and create these builds. Its new ground aside from 2 people that have been there already (lasse and Rolando)
Building a resin kit isn't new ground and doesn't need to be in a thread about scratch building using plastic as a structure and all original donor parts, or even cast donor parts or even wrong donor parts or not enough donor parts.
The chances of some of these Mine included of looking worse than the kit version when completed is quite high, its going to be tough to build em. Its not about elitism its about common sense. other wise why not just have one thread in studio scale and everything goes in that one thread, now if thats what people want, ACE.
My threads not dead, "big things come from small beginnings"
Just so you all know, I'm trying to give up smoking and am a bit edgy at the mo :eek
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